Worrisome forced relocation

Tango; Agreed this horse is done beat.

Take care Be safe Poacher.

 

Yeah, but....... that's what the internet is for Beat'em some more!!! Besides, I'm not sure Mortis knows he's whupped yet.

 

Don't make it personal, I'm quite sure the indefatigable mr.( gunnery sgt?) Mortis hasn't changed his position one bit.

enough already...

 

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!

You should have paid attention.

But hold onto your panty hose boys and girls.... we really gonna take ya outside the box.

But not now...... soon......

 

Mortis is not beat. rest assured of that. I've met the man, drank with him, broke bread with him and watched him shoot. I've seen the people that he calls friends and know that they are able to nail a "poser" within about 15 or so seconds of talking. His opinion may be on the opposite side of the spectrum of yours but they are valid points none the less.

I'll just throw a little snack out for people to chew on. I've heard the Katrina thing so much it's almost like eating raman noodles for a solid year. I know of Three officers from my town that went down to N.O. to assist. When they were told to go and start collecting guns they said no and left. Alot of the officers that did the collection were from big back east depts. NJ, NYPD, Boston, Mass,. There was about zero local cops that did the collection, why? because they were busy trying to take care of their families at home they said piss on everybody else. Same thing with the La. National Guard. There simply wasn't any that showed up.
So if we did have such a catastrophic event that affected people the same way Katrina did who's gonna show up? If you have eight or ten major cities spread out that are needing help like NY on 9-11 times 10 different locations there isn't going to be enough emergency personell to give.
At that point could we have martial law.. It's a possibility however we come back to of the ones that show up how many will do as ordered. Some of the rank and file will cause like Ghrit said they are trained that way. How about the special units? Rangers, SF, Airborne, Delta, Seals these units are trained to not only follow orders but to think and most of them have a college degree. These are not people that are going to just say "Yas sirrr".
On the other hand, We could have a 15 mile wide meteroite come along and just hit smack dab in the middle of the CONUS. and this would be all a mute point cause martial law would be declared without a doubt, on the remaining 1000 or so residents that survived.
Take care Be safe Poacher.

 

That's why I put the "troll" icon after my post.

 

Sometimes taking a step back and thinking not only puts a new perspective on things it raises new questions.
We here are as a whole are looking at current events and seeing how if at all would they affect us. We then look at our training and see if it falls into line. If not we tweak our plans, ideas, training and start from there. Each of us has different levels of preparedness and training.

Earlier in the thread there was a question of our "line in the sand". That one thing that would be our catalyst to action if it were to occur. Would it be somthing that would make all others move to action as well? I don't honestly believe there can be a uniform line in the sand save one, and that folks would be the door to door systematic search for firearms.
What I might consider to be a minor thing might very well be Ghrits line in the sand. (Sorry Ghrit, don't mean to pick on ya). The reason may be that he has decided no more. It also may very well be that he has prior knowledge of situations that have went down these similar roads, or like in the movie "Falling Down" he just had a reeealll shitty day and enough is enough. Last but not least he may decide to just become a shadow and fade off for awhile not because he's afraid nor because he's waiting to see if anyone else will join him, but, because he has seen this demon before. He's heard the roar of the guns, the smell of the powder, the moans of the dying and quite simply he realizes that once this genie is uncorked there truly is no going back.
So lets get to a few questions. If we have a situation that TPTB decide is a perfect opportunity to declare martial law and do relocation what happens if the state of Texas decides to not go along with it? Logically that is a very solid question. Texas is a state under treaty so they can withdraw from the union. Next is what about the reservations? Yeah alot of them are true welfare class but there is a few of them that would love to get some evens.
Lastly I guess is the fact that the way I see it we are playing the what if game. What if we have relocation, what if there's martial law, what if only half of the gun owners stand tall and lastly what if we just worry about the what ifs to the point that we get ourselves worked up and have a stroke. I'm not saying that we shouldn't look at things but we also should take a minute or 10 and just laugh at ourselves. If nothing else it makes our blood pressure go down.
Take care Be safe Poacher.

 

My Father was in the National Guard in the 60s when MLK was sniped in Memphis. Martial Law was declared because of all the rioting. My family was relocated. Dad and friends tell many tales of over-exuberance in enforcing martial law. In a nut-shell, I have seen this here in good old America and lived through it and no amount of flag-waving from a rationalizing soldier, don't care if he has the Medal of Honor, will convince me that this hasn't happened in the past and will not happen again in the future.
As for some being tired of reading about New Orleans, I am equally as tired of the memories of being there in the after-math; that is something that will scar my memories for the rest of my life. I saw as many examples of heroism as I did atrocities, truly the best and the worst of human behavior; the best gives me hope, the worst keeps me aware of what can happen in the name of the common good.

 

Actually....You just supported my claim that not all would fall in lock step behind their officers. Hell, not all officers would follow.

The premise of the claim of martial law to hold this country hostage is based on the military being 100% behind the orders given. Start taking away troops from the equation and my earlier figures then explode into an unmanagable stage.

Oddly enough tho, the Provost Marshall's Office at Barstow was sending Mairnes through the San Bernardino County Sheriffs Academy as early as 1970 for training. Good school. At the time it was rated as the top Sheriffs Academy in the nation.

When I was with CID, we often went on drug raids with the locals out in the civilized world. We'd set in our car, drinking coffee while they took the door and secured the area. We only entered the house if invited by the senior officer in charge of the raid. Our only mission in those raids was to take custody of any military personnel arrested during the raid, or take possession of any military property found on the premises.

These arrangements were made through our Judge Advocate's Office via the State Attorney General's Office.

And even those times when we could have taken the door due to resident being military personnel, we had the locals do it. This prevented some 6 week out of law school shyster from throwing Posse Committatus into the mix in court.

Oh well....me thinks there might be more to the story then appears. Not my problem tho.

Thanks again.... by your own words you have shown that 100% is not a possibile.

 

Quote Mortis
"When I was with CID, we often went on drug raids with the locals out in world. We'd set in our car, drinking coffee while they took the door and secured the area. We only entered the house if invited by the senior officer in charge of the raid. Our only mission in those raids was to take custody of any military personnel arrested during the' raid, or take possession of any military property found on the premises"

Been there, done exactly that ( in fact with "your" guys too: in Fayetteville nc ;fort bragg/pope AFB) , had to be a military connection; at least vehicles with base stickers coming and going.."Whats the military connection? A c141 flew over once"*( that was a common joke) would not fly with me.)

zombiethread: It's taken on a life of its own...

 

p

For some reason this worries me, think I'll load up the mag on the 870 tonight...
"But hold onto your panty hose boys and girls.... we really gonna take ya outside the box."

 

I have obviously mislead you from the assumption you made: QUOTE MR MORTIS:

" Oh well....me thinks there might be more to the story then appears. Not my problem tho".
I said I served under "capt mike" ( psuedonym), that would have been my overseas division tour, capt "mikes' famous( among us ) swat trained division was his stateside division. I was never offered the opportunity to train with these teams, though like CID we were part of many drug task forces for the military "offenders"
QUOTE MR MORTIS:
By this: "Oh well....me thinks there might be more to the story then appears. Not my problem tho"
I read this it to mean you believe my personal bone-fides( sp"bona"?) is seriously in question...bristling in an uncharacteristic surge of self respect: I have never claimed extraordinary military experience. I am not an individual combat vet though I spent a month in theater (Riyahd, "got scudded") setting up SW comm gear at the district compound, during "desert storm". I am not a "shadow warrior", special forces operator, nor trained to kill "barehanded".

I feel no obligation to post a copy of my dd214 or a picture of my AFOSI credentials currently mounted on the wall in a presentation frame with the word "retired " punched across them.
My mind is fuzzy with details sometimes...(results of a partially debilitating stroke)
You can and will assume whatever pleases you...( Excuse my obvious plagiarism here though I'd have to agree):" Not my problem tho."

 

Just to throw a small bucket of gasoline on the fire....there is another element that has not been considered. The disgruntled, disillusioned, and basically totally pissed off veterans of Vietnam, Desert Storm, and the current wars. There are a lot of veterans out there that truly hate the government and will not bow down to them.....and....have been trained in both regular military engagement tactics and SMALL UNIT TACTICS as well as MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) and in irregular operations such as they are now dealing with in the sandbox. They've fought insurgents and it wouldn't be hard to become one. Remember that the Romans were ultimately defeated by the barbarians that THEY HAD TRAINED IN THEIR OWN ARMIES!!

Also don't think for a moment that ALL military personnel are mindless obediant slaves to every order that comes down the pipe.

So now...the SHTF and you have trained pissed off military veterans being told by the government they hate to obey?!?!?!?! I would expect a pretty fair amount of resisting, a fair portion of current military that won't be persuaded to fight their own citizens and a lot of chaos....mix all that up a bit and throw in a little public abuse and manhandling of old people, children and women and you could be looking at a backlash that would catch the administration by considerable surprise. What a mess!!

 

Tango......

Let me say up front that I offer my condolences concerning your health situation. No man should have to go through life under those conditions. I was medically retired. Draw a nice VA check every month in lieu of a regualr retirement check. Not as large as the other.....but non-taxable, non-reportable. It balances out in the long run.

I missed the sandbox due to being in the hospital recovering from injuries suffered from a training incident that cost me two damn fine Marines, and put me onto the disabled list. Sometimes things go boom faster then they should.

Considering that Posse Comitatus is a Federal Law and not a Constitutional Law, I went back to take a look at it. After all, It has been over 30 years since I really paid attention to it.

Congress has indeed altered it from it's original concept. But even the original wording does not prohibit the liaison between military and civilian law enforcement personal and in fact does authorize the military to train and equip the civilian authorities.

I find it nearly comical when you read that one of it's purposes is to protect military personal from the act of being drafted by civilian authorities in order to fulfill civilian needs.

And all this time most folks think it was too protect the civilians from the military.

It does lay down the basic requirements for Martial Law. And a review of Posse Comitatus (18 U.S.C. § 1385) by Army JAG clearly shows the military would like Congress to go back and repair the Law back to it's original order.

In it's current state can the Martial Law claus be abused? Certainly. Just as I said in an earlier discussion concerning those evil Executive Orders, anything can be abused.

Is it possible to place the entire country under Martial Law as all those fancy paste jobs of MinuteMan would like to imply? When pigs fly.

Take away that threat and everything falls down. There cannot be any Force Labor Camps. There cannot be Concentration Camps for dissentents. All of the fears of things that go bump in the night dissolve away.

Poacher was correct in his statements concerning isolated incidents requiring Martial Law. But too treat those situations as locking down the entire country is fantasy.

And in my not so humble opinion, people like Alex Jones and the crew that runs Covert Action are nothing more then con artists fleecing the gullible.

Freedom of thought is Survival. To allow others to do your thinking with lies and innuendo based on preceived fears, places you into the position of not only knowing the wrong enemy, but possibly supporting those that could be your enemy in the final analysis.

 

One thing that sems to be misleading o the discussion IMO is that it seems that it is being assumed that under the martial law EVERYONE would be rounded up at once and sent to camps. That I agree would be near impossible especialy without the help of outside governments, OTOH to go through and in a time of kaos take those who would seem likely to resist into the camps would not be beyond the ability of the govs manpower nor would takeing in those who would go willingly believing they were being aken to saftey and such. Now after takeing in those likely to resist (even IF coms were available and others knew VERY FEW would consider getting involved, who stood up at Ruby Ridge to stop it in gentler times?) they can work their way down to those they consider less of a threat and still make them the boogi man to the rest of the people if they feel the need, and soon just as in WWII Germany there is no one left to object when they ome for the rest.

As to how to get martial law implemented and not strain their forces in the location effected? One of the simplest ways would be to create a cascade of the power grid on a larger scale but similar to what we saw in the NE not so long ago. One plant has a problem that effects a region. Spread it acros the nation, take out the power across the country and the media goes too, phones run on electricity and so do cell towers. In the first day or 2 while folks are more likely to have generators and such running (gas supply runs out soon and if the gas station dont have power they cant pump gas for the generators) send out a mesage that its what ever cause suits TPTB plans best and that due to rioting martial law is in effect. Now they can go round up tose they choose and word cant easily spread and if they choose to anwser questions then the ones being taken are suspected of playing a part in the lights going out. They can now sweep larger areas going after those they want in order say 3 folks in that 50 miles of ground instead of the 47 and they can take 5 guys to do the 250 mile area and get 20 people one at a time.

Wether or not it WOULD ever be implemented, it certianly COULD be implemented.

 

Mortis has accused me of trying to convince you that 2+2=5. I submit to you that it is his intent to convince you that white is black and that up is actually down.
let us examine the latest misdirection’s from the meandering mind of Mortis. let us pull aside the curtain and see the man at the controls and not the false image that is being portrayed.

Very Good Minuteman….you are learning the rules of the game. But you really need to watch those Freudian slips. They say a lot about the individual at the other end of this conversation.

Besides, there are very few white and black situations in this world. Life is composed of shades of gray.

In it's current state can the Martial Law Claus be abused? Certainly. (throw in just a little truth to muddy the waters)Just as I said in an earlier discussion concerning those evil Executive Orders, anything can be abused. (the point of this entire thread)

Oh my, I feel so excited that I made a point that you can agree with. I am tingly all over.

Is it possible to place the entire country under Martial Law as all those fancy paste jobs of Minuteman would like to imply? When pigs fly.
(Don't confuse the issue with things like facts and references)


Facts?? Well, when you produce some I’ll agree with them. And if you consider those postings full of Bovine Fecal Matter as facts, give this a consideration. They provide no points of reference. Examples without a reference point to check. All they preach is Fear. Fear of the Government. Fear of the Military. Fear of Law Enforcement Personal. Basically, they preach the foundations of Anarchy.

Not the Constitutional Anarchy that Thomas Jefferson supported, but more in the vein of Lenin. Add into the nonsense a touch of Isolationism.

You remember Isolationism? It was strong in the early part of the 20<SUP>th</SUP> Century. It took hold and kept the U.S. out of world politics and the world economy. It set the foundations which created the circumstances that put in motion the economic downslide that ended with the Stock Market Crash of 1929. It created the environment in which a mad man could take over Germany.

Yes, nothing like ignoring those who have for years been trying to advise the population of events across the world. We must ignore those folks because they are the propaganda mouth piece for the take over of the world. Over 80 years they have been warning about how things are happening in the world, but since they are evil, we must never even consider their information. Instead we must always believe that which we have been conditioned to believe.

Yes……I said it….Conditioned. I have said it once before, the Thought Police is a sword that cuts both ways.

Freedom of thought is Survival. To allow others to do your thinking with lies and innuendo based on perceived fears, places you into the position of not only knowing the wrong enemy, but possibly supporting those that could be your enemy in the final analysis. (if other then me, listen to, you do. Then astray you will be led.hmm. Or in other words, if you or any author or website etc. doesn't see the world through the eyes of Mortis, or share his political bent, then you are misguided and in need of enlightenment. You must fly your x-wing fighter to the Degaba system and Jedi training you will receive. May the force of Mortis be with you.) [/quote]

Very good Minuteman….very good indeed. Yes, I do have considerable military experience. 23 yrs, 4 months, 13 days worth. But everyone was invited. Even you. And if I was a betting man, from this point on, you’ll proclaim that all I am doing is lying to cover my own ass. Too bad you are not paying attention to another on this board that has been to my place of business. But wait, he too is nothing more then a shill to provide me with references other then what you have determined already. Very good try, indeed.

Military Intelligence? Man, you could not have paid me enough to work in that field. And if you knew anything about the military, you’d know that PsyOps is a Special Forces specialty. Although I do believe the regular Army does have some units in the same field of endeavor.

But to add to your exercise, I am or was an Operational type. We took the information provided by the MI folks and determined a course of action based of all information at hand. Then we hedged our bets because MI often had it wrong.

It appears to me that there are two paths being proffered here. I propose that a vigilant "survivalist" type person should examine all potential threats and prepare for as many contingencies as possible.

I’ll say it again, Sun Tzu meant to examine all sides of the possibility, not just one side. To be warned of a threat and to accept only one view puts you in position of not seeing another threat, more real and dangerous. This is called Misdirection. Works good in football also. It is also called a Tactical Deception. Probe the left flank while moving the real attack to the right flank. The Allies preformed this very well at Normandy. They had the Germans believing the real attack would be at the Port of Calais.

And I enjoyed reading the comments about the Pan American Highway which is supposed to be 4 football fields wide. Boy, I’d love to have the earth moving contract on a highway 1200 feet wide by over 1200 miles in distance.

Do we hide in our houses and fear things that go bump in the night? Ridiculous. Do we store up food and weapons, ammo and generators etc. Of course. Do we have contingency plans to evaporate if things become FUBAR? If you don't you should.

So I leave it to the readers of this thread to decide which path they believe to be the more prudent. I would surmise that the line behind Sir Mortis will be a very short one.



I did not undertake this line of thought as an us verses them. Or line up behind me cause I am right and everyone else is wrong. I undertook it to show fact verses fiction. So far all you have provided is fiction. And a vigilant survivalists cannot afford to base his funds, preparation, and his very life and those of his family on fiction.

You provide me the proof. Something other then all the nonsense you have been posting and I’ll line up behind you. But as I said, the only proof I’ll accept is that which I could take into a court of law and use as evidence against the evils of mankind. And what has already been in a court is not acceptable. That road has already been traveled.

"whereas the Constitution forbids the creation of a permanent standing army any argument aside from that is a moot point”

The Constitution of the United States:

Article I, Sect. 8. The Congress shall have power:

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Article II, Sect. 2. The President shall be Commander in Chief of the army and navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States

Now, I hope you notice that the Constitution makes the difference between the Army and a militia. But the key here is that it does not forbid a standing army. Only that funding for one shall not exceed 2 years. This is why Congress has to go approve a Defense Budget every year.

So Minuteman…..what part of the Constitution does forbid a standing Army? I used three (3) separate sources to find that information and they all say the same thing. What does your source say?

Oh, and I do love the statement about providing for and maintaining a Navy. Since I am a Marine and part of the Department of the Navy, my beloved branch of service is immune to disbandment without changing the basic Constitution.

Which brings me to this thought. Will your favorite Presidential candidate disband the Army based on the risk of martial law taking over the country. Will he totally do away with Executive Orders or Directives in order to preserve your version of insuring that a Constitutional Government is insured during time of a major national emergency? After all, all the Constitution does is provide a chain of succession for the office of the President. It does not provide for who actually fills the position of the Secretary of State incase of death during a fart bomb attack.

But Article II, Section 2: he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices.

If you can get beyond the fear induced by some left winged liberal concerning the Executive Orders we have been discussing, then you can see this is what has actually been done. They provide for a clear chain of command within each department of government, in case disaster strikes and removes folks from their jobs. This provides for the continuation of a Constitutional Government as required for by the Constitution

And if they are kept secret, then the purpose is not because of some sinister design on this country, but to insure our enemies, both foreign and domestic do not have a line of attack in which they can destroy the government.

But what the heck, since this line of thought differs from that which you have been conditioned to believe, keep posting and I’ll keep laughing.
Once again, the vigilant survivalists must look at all sides of the information and situation. Without doing so he limits his options. The survivalist that limits his options is asking for a toe tag.

And in closing this article please accept my condolences in advance. Cause your inability to look beyond what you have been taught to believe, you will soon be ran over by what the Council for Foreign Relations has been warning of. They have in fact been trying to express what the New World Order is about and how it will effect this country. And I know for a fact that it is already impacting the economy of this country. I deal with it nearly daily. And although it is political alignments in nature, it is based on economy.

We no longer control the manufacturing specifications for the world. They are now being dictated to us. We either come up to their specifications or we can no longer do business with what use to be some of our biggest clients.

With the fall of the Soviet Union, the European community no longer had to take our crap out of self preservation. Now they are starting to dictate to us. This is the New World Order that Bush Senior was talking about in 1990. He tried to warn the public of what could happen. And it is happening today.

But ignore it. Make all kinds of snide comments about having lost my mind. Isolate yourself from the realities based on fears of fantasy. Ignore that Germany and France has already set up standards for manufacturing which far exceed those we have been shoving down their throats for years. We either come up to their standards or we cannot sell in their markets. Go ahead, ignore that, just as several companies did when first notified by those countries. And they are now scrambling to catch up with those that took the warnings to heart.

Oh, did I mention that it was the Council of Foreign Relations that warned of the dire conditions of the world economic situation in the late 1920’s? And it was those same evil people that warned of the unstable political environment in Germany prior to Hitler taking power and again they warned of his Nationalist designs after he took power?

Yeah, we cannot trust those folks. They preach evil.

 

I have been for 2 months now..... shall I continue?