Wanted: Semi-auto handgun recommendations

I have a sig p938.
SIG Sauer P938 - Wikipedia
Not an ammo snob from what I have seen. I had a friend who carried an LC9 and she ended up giving me a box of ammo hers wouldn’t use and my sig shot it just fine. I have very small hands and it fits well. Really small so not the most accurate 9 at distance but a nice carry gun for a small person like me.

 

My wife unlike most women likes to carry on her person instead of in a purse. She says if anything happens she probably wont get to her pistol fast enough. Then again she is a great shooter and normally carries a ruger sp101 in a belt holster or an old keltec p32. I agree with her though........ we live near atlanta GA where you would safer living in afganistan. My wife has worked for a gun range for 15 years and army before that and regularly gives advice to women shooters and non alike. My best advice would be to find a good comfie holster and get used to carrying instead of totting in a purse. Then, you wont be limited to size, weight, and being able to get your hands on it to charge it....... which is a common problem with nearly all of the micro 380s. The main springs of these little pistols being so strong is what makes them finnicky with ammo. Another down side of the micro comps is if they are not gripped tight they can rock and the resulting kinetic energy snap causes malfunctions. I would actually recommend a small and light revolver.

 

I concur but the lady prefers a pistol.

Of course, if the grip is the problem there are a great variety of aftermarket grips available that vary in size. I bet I could get an M-60 machine gun grip 3D printed somewhere for my everyday carry Ladysmith .38.

 

Actually a M60 grip is more like a Walther p38 grip or a Sturmgevar sumthinorother. But, yeah my thoughts exactly.

 

Nah, an M60 grip is a pig handle. I loved my pig.

I’ve never loved a P38 or Mg42. If I’d had them they would have been mere cousins of my well humped, loud and heavy companion.

 

Well said!

 

[QUOTE="Motomom34, post: 520875, member: 9383”]@Zimmy

How far away with your rimfire handgun can you hit a coke can reliably? 6/10 at least.

That sounds about correct, 10 to 15 (feet).

How far away do you feel you should shoot at someone with your handgun? Legally, morally, and proficiently?

No more then 6-10 feet because a threat is the only reason. If it is more, I have a chance to get away safely. That is what you are supposed to do. That is what our teacher taught.

What caliber handguns haven’t cause you difficulties? Which have?

My rimfire and 380 are easy. My .38 special is small — but I have less control, and it jars me more. Not sure if it is the grip/design or what but I am not as proficient with it.

Which caliber handguns do you think you can learn to shoot with proficiency although you probably won’t shoot them recreationally due to discomfort?

Your questions are great and they are having me re-examine. I know what has worked. I see the design, the weight, grip but your first question has me thinking. I have a pistol that I love, can shoot properly but I also have a .380 that I can shoot, that causes no pain but I lost faith in the gun itself. Making me think I should just get another .380 that is better made. Ammo is not as popular and others but I have seen a trend of .380 becoming more popular.

Do you prefer pistols or revolvers?

Pistols. Used to be a revolver girl.

How big of a carry gun will you really carry every day? Is weight or size the most important factor?

.380 or 38 special. Yes, weight matters so does size. Notice that I carry the two I am not 100% liking.[/QUOTE]

Motomom, you really are a nice lady; and if I can help you with this all too common self-defense dilemma then I’d like to. This thread is starting to get a little ‘age’ on it; but the questions it asks are timeless; consequently, even though I’m a little late to arrive, I’d like to reply.

1. A general truism: Personally, I’ve never met a woman who actually LIKED TO SHOOT her Ruger LCP; and, conversely, I’ve never met a woman who did NOT like her FN Five-seveN — Not a single woman!

2. Did you say, ‘6 to 10 feet’, and only if it’s ‘a threat’ that is legally, and morally correct? Because, otherwise, you’ll have a chance to get away!

Well now, …… I’ve never met anyone who could run faster than a bullet. Neither is ‘6 to 10 feet’ anywhere near that genuinely functional engagement distance needed in order to competently engage in a CQB pistol gunfight with any appreciable chance to survive unscathed — Unscathed!

‘6 to 10 feet’ (3 yards) is nowhere near the sufficient distance necessary to protect yourself while maintaining a reasonable chance to survive unhit (or untouched) by the other fellow’s weapon — Which is most often a pistol.

If the early FBI pistol gunfighting action reports of years ago contained any element of truth at all, it is that up close ’n personal CQB pistol gunfighting is, in reality, a very real form of suicide — Mutual suicide!

‘Why?’ Because, up until the past 10 years, or so, when these reports were finally exposed for the literary ‘techno-crap’ that they actually are, these after-action reports consistently drew naïve and very incorrect conclusions! (This is where that specious gunfighting rationale of ‘3 x 3 x 3’ comes from; an assertion that is, now, widely known to be a very incorrect conclusion!)

Now, because what follows is going to be new information that is not usually found floating around, anywhere, in cyberspace, I suggest that all seriously interested readers should pay careful attention, OK!

Here we go!

If that CQB pistol (or knife) gunfight you are worried about adheres to the most likely circumstantial probabilities, then:

You, yourself; what you think; what you feel; what you want; or what you would like to do are NOT going to be either the causative, or the initiating circumstances of the event.

(Sorry, but, this is the truth!)

Your CQB behavior is, more than likely, going to be (almost) purely reactive — Not proactive, but reactive instead; and, in order to significantly improve your own chances of survival, you’re going to have to do something that will decidedly shift the odds in your favor. The question is ‘What?’

My suggestion would be for you to do a large part of your (weekly) pistol practice at 10 to 12 yards. Me? I regularly practice all the way out to 20 - 22 yards; and I’m going to tell you ‘Why’:

The first reason can be observed on almost every single one of the police dash cam TV shows. Officers who are expecting to walk into trouble always do ‘What’? …… The police, all, draw their guns — That is ‘What’! There is a method to this very necessary survival behavior, too.

One of the most profound lessons I’ve learned from, almost literally, a lifetime of doing these things is that every opponent has, in his own mind as well as ‘hardwired’ into his bodily reflexes, a specific concept of:

That ideal, and most probable, distance at which he is the most likely to shoot you the very first time he fires, and either kill you, or take you out of the fight.

(Either way you lose; and your adversary wins, right!)

Personally, I like to think of this distance as an opponent’s ‘Combat Comfort Zone’. Anyone who imagines that his instructor, or his lawyer, is correct; and that he should not seek to engage an attacker from any farther away than ‘6 to 10 feet’ is, as far as I’m concerned, committing a very serious and, perhaps, fatal CQB error.

Remember: It’s what your opponent thinks and how well he is able to act that really matters:

Your adversary is, more than likely, going to be that person who is really in charge of the circumstances of the CQB event, not you — NOT you!

I suggest that you practice often and learn how to engage from, at least, 3 times farther than you are presently imagining is sufficient distance for you to be safe as well as morally, and legally correct.

(Whatever, the hell, those things mean? We’re, still, CQB pistol gunfighting, correct; and during an event like this, any remaining life expectancy may be realistically measured in — not days, hours, or minutes; but in milliseconds instead!)

Think about it: What does every ‘bad guy’, every attacker, always try to do before launching into an attack? …… He tries to get in as close to you as possible! By doing this he cuts your reaction time, and significantly improves his own chances to catch you by surprise, and, by whatever means are available to him, win the fight — Win the fight!

In order to improve your own chances of survival while you are playing at what is actually ‘the other guy’s game’, (Rather than your own, remember!) you are going to need every single extra inch of distance that, hopefully, will be available to you.

You DO NOT WANT TO CQB pistol gunfight at any distance closer than you absolutely must.

You DO WANT TO CQB pistol gunfight at that distance at which your reaction time is greater, and you proficiency with a pistol is, at least, equal to or, ideally, greater than that of your opponent. (Got it!)

3. What pistol caliber is going to be the best for you to carry and use? I wish I could tell you otherwise; but I’ve had these same problems with my own wife. (Whom I have often thought of as one of the world’s ‘most perfect victims’.)

On the one hand she asserts that she doesn’t need to carry a gun because, as she likes to say, ‘I’ve got you; and you can do all of the shooting for me!’ (How cute, right!) However, …… I wasn’t there on the night that she almost got our brand new car hijacked from the rear lot at the local post office!

She panicked and did absolutely everything absolutely wrong; and completely contrary to what she’d heard me tell other women to do if something like this were to, ever, happen to them. I thank God that my wife was able — to not only survive, but — to escape unharmed. (She had the presence of mind to actually run over one of the carjacker’s feet in order to make her escape!)

She got home a good two hours late that night and, very silently walked into the family room where I was working. When, sort of over my shoulder, I asked her why she was late she blurted out, (Ready?) ‘The ghost of my recently departed mother just saved my life!’ (‘Say what, woman!’)

That evening, and before we had dinner, she demanded that I take her to the gun safe and, as she put it, ‘Give me one of your guns!’

‘Ahh …… please, Darling, give me a frigg ‘in break!’ ‘It’s late; I’m hungry; and you’re still able to cook!’ (Calm down, it’s a joke!)

Yes, my wife is licensed to carry; but I told her no — absolutely not. I said that until she could pass the same course that all of the other female students took BEFORE I would allow them to handle a handgun, I would not give her ‘one of my guns’.

Well, let me tell you: I never saw any female student study harder or more intensely than my wife did. She threw herself into the safety and firearm manuals; and Cooper’s Four Rules (actually five rules) Of Gun Safety became permanent parts of her personality.

4. Which left me with the problem of trying to figure out what handgun would be the most practical choice for her to carry and use? So, because I love her so much, I thought and thought, and thought; and, finally, here is what I and a man who repaired and maintained service pistols for the Philadelphia Police Department decided upon:

In the ‘right, well-practiced hands’ (meaning his, or mine) a 22 LR semiautomatic pistol can be an effective weapon. I mean ‘Why not?’ The Israeli Mossad, Shin Bet, and the American CIA use 22 LR pistols all of the time. I know I can put all 10 rounds into something the size of a grapefruit at 10-12 yards just as fast as I can pull the trigger.

My wife, however, cannot. Sure, she can hit with my S&W Model 41; but not with the speed and accuracy needed to effectively place all 10 rounds tightly on target as quickly as possible; and, with a 22 LR, THIS is what a self-defense pistol shooter MUST be able to do. Consequently, a 22 LR was out.

So, …… this left me with the realization that, if my wife were ever going to be any good with a handgun, (She already handled shotguns and rifles beautifully!) she was going to have to learn how to skillfully manage pistol recoil in the same way that any competent handgunner does — The same way!

Now I’ve been teaching people how to skillfully handle pistols for a long long time; and people have often told me that I’m good at it, too. (Not bragging, OK!) I decided to do with my wife what I’d done with so many other pistol shooting neophytes. The first thing I did was to take her to the range, hand her a full-size 357 Magnum revolver along with several boxes of ammo; some boxes were heavy ‘full house’ ammo, and other boxes were lightweight ‘target loads’.

I didn’t say a word about the ammunition; and I loaded all of her speed loaders for her. After about an hour I had her firing double-action; and, at 10 yard’s distance, I had her putting all of her shots inside of the 8 inch center ring of a standard IDPA target!

Her ammo was deliberately mixed up with both ‘full house’ and ‘target’ rounds loaded into each cylinder she fired. Toward the end I had her firing only ‘full house’ ammo; and, surprise of surprises, she started doing very well with the really ‘hot stuff’.

I did NOT say anything stupid to her like, ‘Now watch out for this 357 Magnum.’ ‘It’s a very powerful ‘bear’ of a gun; and you’re going to have to be really careful with it because it kicks like a mule.’

Language like the above statements should not even be in a competent firearm instructor’s vocabulary — OK. What is the only comment my wife made to me after her shooting session was over? She said that, ‘Those last cylinders seemed louder than the rest.’

(Imagine that!) My reply? ‘Yeah, they were; but you shot them all off very well.’

This is the right way to teach any new student, and especially a woman, that firearm recoil is a friend — a friend! Recoil should be viewed as, and managed like a tool. I tell you for a fact that learning to work with mechanical recoil is exactly ‘How’ to teach yourself to be very good with any combat handgun.

By the end of that day I had my wife shooting a powerful double-action pistol better than (I’d say) a good 90 percent of the people I routinely watch shooting at many gun ranges. The right caliber is something that you learn how to work with, not something that you choose because it’s either easy-to-manage, or comfy. (Got it!)

5. After much soul searching and keenly aware that neither one of us was getting any younger. (I already have incipient arthritis in my hands, and so does my wife. Ain’t stopped me yet, though; and it shouldn’t stop her, either.)

I decided that a Ruger SP-101 with a minimum length 3 inch barrel, an exposed hammer spur, and in 357 Magnum caliber would be the best all-around choice for my wife; but, I’m considerate enough to appreciate that a 357 Magnum caliber handgun might not be the right choice for you. (I mean this!)



I, also, believe that ‘being comfortable’ to carry, or ‘supremely manageable’ to shoot are two of the very worst purchase criteria that a gun buyer can use — The very worst! Need proof? In my own experience all it’s going to take to convince someone of the subtle (but startling) truth behind this statement is to become involved in that very first, unexpected, CQB, pistol gunfight.

Believe me! After surviving an horrific event like this, nobody, including yourself, will ever again place any sort of high personal value on carrying a handgun that is either ‘comfy’ or ‘easy to manage’ again!

Secondary backup pistols can be ‘comfortable’ and as easy to shoot straight as possible; but, first and foremost, a primary pistol should be an excellent weapon to gunfight with — An excellent weapon!

Now for my thoughts on what is the best all-around pistol caliber for women to use. (Ready?) Generally speaking, I believe that 9 x 19mm is the ideal pistol caliber for just about everybody to use. If — IF — there were only one combat pistol caliber in the world I think that caliber should be 9 x 19mm. A 9mm is comparatively affordable; it’s one of the best combat pistol rounds to practice with; and, WITH ACCURATE SHOT PLACEMENT, it packs more than enough ‘oomph’ to put a man-sized target down.

(Not as good for pistol combat as a 45 ACP; but a 'Nine' will certainly do; and, in my opinion, everybody should own, at least, one 9 x 19mm handgun. Just for laughs, here's what I carry around on my belt, everyday, all day long. It's a G-21. I shoot 'the heck' out of it; and I call it 'my lucky gun'.)



Personally I don’t like Walther 9mm’s. ‘Why?’ Because, and as their owner’s manual states, Walthers are not rated to handle a steady diet of ‘+ P’ cartridges.

So, what semi-auto pistols do I like for a woman’s use? OK, certainly NOT something that has no discretionary user-applied safety on it. Maybe a striker-fired design; but probably not. In other words, and even though I carry one or another of them everyday, no Glocks.

Neither am I fond of the idea of keeping a C-0, or C-1 semiautomatic pistol around the house — Understand? My general recommendation would be for a compact-sized 9 x 19mm pistol. You’re going to have to decide which one. I’ll only add this: If whatever gun you decide on is too small to regularly and (NOW, I'll use the word) ‘comfortably’ practice with then, as far as I’m concerned, you will have made a serious mistake.

 

Short and sweet answer...Your teacher will get you killed. 21 feet is the minimum and even at that range you better go for a head shot when someone is closing in on you from there.

 

Also what type of ammo you use in your carry gun. I can practice with the cheaper jacketed ammo but I do occasionally run some “real world” rounds through it. It feels different when shooting it. There are quite a few decent types of personal defense ammo on the market.

 

My wife has the same problem with racking. This technique changed that

RACKING THE SLIDE TECHNIQUE
The most important thing to remember is this.. PUSH not PULL.

The proper technique is to PUSH your dominant hand firmly, the hand gripping the gun forward while holding the rear of the slide NOT pulling the rear of the slide backwards. Here are the steps:


1. Grasp your gun with a dominant hand, with your trigger finger outside the trigger guard and with your non-dominant hand grasp the upper and rear end of the slide. Position your hand so the heel of your hand is nearest you with your other four fingers over the slide and grasping on the outer side. Not pinching it from the rear between your thumb and index finger. CAUTION: do not let your hand cover the ejection port as your hand can get severely pinched in it during the sliding action and blocking the ejection port can cause a jam.

Racking The Slide Of Your Gun - The Well Armed Woman

 

Armordude (AD1) You're right, of course; however I've also had success teaching people with damaged hands to grasp the front of the slide in a slingshot pinch, and push 'n pull it back in this manner. By the way, the 'hand over top' (H.O.T.) method described above works best if the gun hand PUSHES, and the support hand PULLS.

 

Kahr and m&p shield in 9mm,common ammo is the way to go.

 

I've said this before but when it was time for my wife to pick her gun I took her to our local gunshop, turned her over to the owner, gave him two stipulations (no SAOs, no Manual safeties) and walked down to the used book store two doors down. When I came back 30 minutes later she was filling out the paperwork for a Glock19 with grip tape in the serrations. Works great for her

 

Lone Gunman made me feel so good about myself that I went and bought a PMR30 today. No grapefruit killed but I did tear up some horseapples.

Thanks for the info oilpan!

 

Sounds like somebody knows how to shoot! If you're going to be carrying that PMR-30 which is, as I've already indicated, an acceptable pistol, when it is used in the 'right hands', then be sure to also carry an extra pair of magazines; and 'think small' and 'aim small' too. A 22 WMR self-defense pistol is not for distance shooting; I would think that 12 to 15 yards is about it. If you can consistently hit horse apples at that distance then you're doing real good!

ADDED: What, the hell, is that girl smoking? Mothers, children, and semi-auto pistols that are often carried in C-0/C-1, and which also do not have a discretionary user-applied safety are a 'recipe for a family disaster'.

Refer:
(1) Two year old child shoots and kills his mother with an S&W 'Shield' 9mm pistol!
(2) The detailed story — Kind of a shocker!