TOTM 2016- Long Term Recovery

Good job Unc! I would only add that rather than sealer or paint, use a natural oil to swell the leather...vegetable or animal.

As a kid, I'd skim some bacon grease from mom's can and use it on the leather seal of my air gun...works wonders!

 

ALWAYS look up the history. You might check out potting and lutfisk while you are at it. Haha.

 

There are many topics here, so difficult to reply to them all, I believe that when faced with a situation like mentioned above we find answers and adapt but unfortunately the weak probably will die. This is evident in history and the technology development of people on this planet, if you look back a a few 1000 years all the advancements man made came from cold climate areas because if man didn't learn how to farm, grow, hunt, transport, shelter and defend himself he was dead. If you look at mans development in the tropical areas it was much slower thus leading to there colonization. In the warm climates man didn't have to worry as much because food as it was plentiful and no real need for farming,transport,shelter and most other things.. So necessity is the mother of invention, knowledge is the answer how best to prepare.

 

In my mind I would like to think once all the Zombie have been wiped out that things would slowly start back to the times of Little House on the Prairie. Where there were small communities and people willing to lend a helping hand yet basically one would be allowed to live their life. It would be a hard living but it would be one that gave people satisfaction. But that is a fallacy. One does not go back. Rarely to things go back to the good old days, if they were really that. Our knowledge is too advanced.

I truly believe once things have totally collapsed, after the population has been culled, we will be living in Utopian society. I have read many PAW, Dystopian, Post SHFT novels. Maybe that is coloring my outlook but I see the future of the world where a few rule and the rest serve. I see our Constitution, values and freedom being a memory or maybe those memories will also be forgotten. I think people are kidding themselves if they think just patriots and preppers will survive. The sheep will survive also, many of them will. Most parents would sell their soul for their children. The sheep will be herded into FEMA camps or bond together in small communities. They could very well come out on top and we will all be subject to their vision of what society should be. Just in case, people should learn how to be agreeable and nod to the masters.

 

This is my full take on this issue, every time I hear it.

If a group of people have survived SHTF, and are thriving to the point of even having this discussion, then they are living under a government that has evolved to suit the needs of the community. Trying to force a "thought experiment"/ "societal construction" of government has no place in SHTF. That is tyranny, or communism.

If multiple communities are banding together, they will either already be under the same system, will form a treaty recognizing each others government, and rights to stay the heck away from messing with each others, or they will go to war.

This debate is pointless.

The only time it is relevant, at all, is when setting up a MAG, and living under a set of "mutually valued laws" before SHTF, and then forcing that to stick once SHTF.

 

No it isn't. If we are not in a FEMA camp then one had better have knowledge of hw to survive past 3 years. Most people have two rakes, 2 axes and food and seeds. How many have taken the time to let a vegetable plant go to seed then plant the seeds for a crop the next season? Last year many of the seeds I planted were three years old. My yield was not great, so if I was planning on feeding my family all winter on what my harvest was then we would be real hungry.

There was a book I read and the community that banded together post-SHTF had a warning bell system. The bells were located throughout the community. I thought it was a good idea. People can tell where a sound is coming from and go give aid. The bell warning system is easy to make and operate. A bell ringing code is easy to develop. One ring means intruders. 2 means gather, three rings..... or whatever.

 

Playing scenarios is all guess and conjecture. Today I am about 70% SELF RELIANT. You said

" You were adequately prepared or lucky enough to survive all that. How are you going to move beyond subsistence farming and living on the meager food and medical you have left? Do you intend to just garden by hand and forage for rabbits and squirrels (the deer were mostly gone in 8 weeks) until you can't physically do it anymore and then die? Trade WILL start back up in some form.""

Okay , you have answered your own question to some extent. I will seek out trade right away and in fact I just made a long term deal with the Amish folks here and my local grocer who will take silver as payment for goods. I dont have to forage for rabbits ,chickens or fish as I have those things. The Amish will trade fish for beef, rabbit for turkey etc. We are planting heirloom seeds now and harvesting our own seeds every year. Life will go from paying bills to producing food. No more need to worry about the cable bill or the mortgage right? so we spend every other day cutting wood. Cutting and stacking grass hay for the rabbits and grinding up corn and acorns for the birds winter feed. A farm is life. A lake is a sustaining pantry. In short you dont go beyond subsistence farming. You focus on it. You build on it.

Today I feed the deer and do not shoot the geese and ducks that crap in my yard. I even help the turtles to make it to their nesting areas where they lay their eggs and make more turtles. We dont harvest Our lake today so we have it tomorrow. I cut all my wood 5 miles or more from my house so when it comes down to cart and axe Im cutting close to home. I am growing Oak, cherry and Maple trees here on my 10 acres that will heat my home ten years from now. We have a group of animals who make the fertilizer to keep the ground good for crops. We planted lots of fruit trees. We have grapes,Mulberry trees and lots of other things like Cat tails that we dont really use right now but these things will come into play. Axe heads last for centuries I keep extra handles and can always make handles for shovels rakes etc. I pick this stuff up at the dump all the time. You would be surprised what people throw away as in axes, shovels,rakes etc., with cracked handles. I even got an Ontario Bolo knife with a chip in the blade at the dump. A little bench grinding and it is good as new. I have 6 different axe heads and a pile of hatchets. Buy good Estwing Hammers and never look back. I have enough gas and oil and saw parts to cut 10 years supply of fire wood before I have to go to axe and hand cart. I am changing out my wood stove stack this spring. It lasted 7 years and is rusting but still sound. Im going to put in a new one and buy enough pipe for a second one with several extra caps.

I have enough ammunition to hunt for 50 years. If I get into a bunch of gun fights? that changes. Ill be out of center fire ammo in short order. Im am hoping to have another 3000 rounds for the AR-15 before anything happens. But I have enough .22 lr. for hunting to last 50 years. We have two cross bows and about 30 bolts. Still adding to all the weaponry . We have a group here of 6 maybe 7 families. We also have a couple staunch Liberals who will run to the government when shtf. Im sure they will perish as they think prepping is insane. They think that we are crazy militia type hoarders. I actually cant wait for the one bitch to come here asking for a cup of sugar. Ill make her hoe the garden for it. Never did an honest days work in her life. People like her want to poison the lake and make it her own private swimming pool. Needless to say people like her will be dead weight and will have to be moved along. Life will be claimed by those who can carry their own weight and are willing to work. No work?? no eat. so get self reliant and expand on it.

 

I'm thinking anything organic is going to hold bacteria, and will break down both the seal, and the food. I would think 1/8" plastics or window glass would do better as replacement canning lids, and a thin bead of silicone would make a good gasket on these lids, if left to dry before closing. I would cast plastic seals before going organic.

 

This scenario is why it is important to:
1. stack silver, gold and trade items.
2. have the skills and equipment to manufacture/remanufacture trade items or provide needed services.

 

Long term survival is a good discussion. Governing, which I spoke on, is an almost worthless discussion.

 

Please reread my previous post...#25.

 

I think you have to roll with what ever government there is. War lords, governors, and who knows, maybe the federal gov. stays somewhat operational,just broke and inept like it is now. With no taxes Government is reduced to those who really care ,.. ha ha ha ha ha ah . yea I just said that. Like any of them care now right? My best hope is to be left alone , on my own to make our way. Not much hope of that either. Always some dumb ass who think he or she has the answer. I can solve all your problems just give me a dollar of your wages and control and Ill make it all right. Then its two dollars , then three and now that other clan has to be killed so I need to raise an army and on and on. Government just may be the real problem . Maybe free people don't need government at all. I am of the opinion that less is better.

@ BTPOST, I would think good coms would be important as all get out. Short wave radio, Ham etc. To stay in contact with other countries and other states would be vital in my honest opinion.

 

In every generation there are those who want to rule well -- but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters -- but they mean to be masters.

Daniel Webster

 

I just think you have to be ready to deal with some form of government, EVEN FOREIGN as such would be the case in the event of an invasion. I mean what would you say to some captain in the Russian Army telling you to lay down and your arms and submit to the Russian Republic?? I would kill him and not think twice about it. Better to die free than live in chains. I know Broker, @Brokor we are in chains now right?

 

If there were no controlling government present, we would, without a doubt, be invaded. Realestate has always been, and always will be a motive, and power abores a vacuum.

 

I will be having a say in what form a government is in place to "rule" me, or me it, PSHTF. I just see no need to go in planning an (...), when a whole range of factors, including the people involved, the views of the group, and the specifics of dozens of things come into play.

I am no lamb for the slaughter, but neither am I the lord of all.

You actually are articulating better than my 3 hours of sleep what I meant about the MAG. IF you have a group, then get your group lined out. You will then be doing EXACTLY what I am talking about in the first paragraph of this post. IF you have a group, then the GROUP will decide what they are willing to live with, and then you will live, die, or adapt to the conditions post/pre SHTF. Whether or not you survive under that guise, in the long term, is what we are speaking of, and the ultimate point of my original post...because we will not know until years down the road if your plans were successful. There is no way, in the present, to gauge the success of a future plan. Thus, most versions of these plans are pointless, with the sole exception being that you get an idea, in the present, of what your companions are made of, and get an deeper look at how they see and react to the world.

I also believe that at it's core, the U.S. system has a lot of values. I can already tell you some things that I think need to change, and things that I have a strong opinion on in general. There is no need for me to plan these things, because I already know where I stand.

IF you can think of anything else to bring up from this post, I have no problems discussing my views further...

 

Your points are very important. I posted a thread last week written by a farmer. The author of the information knows and lives what he wrote about. I realized something every important in that, I may own silver to purchase a cow should SHTF but I do not have very much knowledge on how to care for the cow. That is one thing that I have been wondering. If I have silver, what am I planning in trading for? And will silver really give you purchasing power or would crops be a better barter item? You can't predict the future so it is real hard to plan for 3-10 years out.

 

Tis best to have a wide variety trade items, including PMs...the more variety you have, the better the chances you have of having what the other party wants or needs to trade for what you want or need without running around getting into complicated multi-party trade scenarios, which are one of the drawbacks of a pure barter society. Also, at some point people will tire of the complication of a pure barter economy and attempt to adopt a common currency...if history is any guide, gold and silver will probably be that common currency at first.