Surviving alone or form a group?

I find myself thinking along similar lines. When I think in terms of surviving a SHTF situation, I find myself thinking of, and planning for, my wife, my small child at home, and myself - the "now" family. I realize though, that this small group will certainly grow. We are the only preppers in the family, and I know that our parents and siblings will almost inevitably end up on our doorstep, and my two grown children very well might. Very quickly, the group dynamics will change, and a couple of years worth of preps will become a few weeks worth.

I know this thread started with the question of Group vs Self, and that we've talked about group-growth in other threads, but I keep coming back to it. Even if I start off with a Self (immediate family) survival situation, I see the growth to a group situation almost inevitable.

It's easy to say that you'll drive off any strangers that come knocking at your door, but how do you drive off family and the family of loved ones? It's easier said than done. Obviously, it has to be a case by case basis, but it isn't going to be easy.

I've also considered how to move along squatters from your property. Evil-intentioned raiding gangs from the inner city are an easy fix - sight picture, sight alignment. A starving family is something else again. You can tell them to move on, but what if they say "no"?

They aren't threatening you directly, but they will cut into your garden and forage, particularly if the camp grows, and thus threaten you indirectly. Think back to the dust bowl, and the roving bands of families. What do you do when they stop on your land, and say that they're played out, and not moving another step? Are you going to shoot them in front of their kids, just because they were like the ninety nine percent of Americans who didn't prepare? I don't think there is an easy answer. If there is, I haven't found it.

 

A great thought provoking essay is located here: http://www.survivalmonkey.com/forum...9-good-see-you-now-go-die-somewhere-else.html

In the end, a Family or Group Leader who, IMO, will not leave, even after offered charity, which we will extend, will be staring down the barrels of weapons of some very nervous, determined, and sad hearted people. If the belligerence does not extend to more than words, good. They will likely be escorted away under arms and warned not to return. We will give until it hurts, but we will not endanger our children, family, or group's (tribe's) ongoing survival.

Weapons being drawn by a belligerent party will likely end in gunfire, and very regrettably death. There is no good answer. Any person who has lost all regard for their children's safety or at least regard to the point where they will draw a weapon on an armed group because they do not get their way, are again IMO, dangerous to those very children. The inability to think logically and understand the consequences of their actions, not just to themselves, but to the very children who's lives they are in a Biblical, moral, and ethical sense responsible for leads to regrettable, bad solutions which will end with tears and heart ache.

Another thing to remember, the "parade" at your front gate means that someone or a group of someones may be creeping your back fence line. Always watch your back door, always keep an eye on the perimeter.

Another thing to note, kids, particularly older ones, may be as dangerous or more dangerous than the belligerent adult standing there shouting. Your eyes and attention is focused on Dad yelling while junior is palming a pistol and getting ready to back up dad with a bullet.

We have charity packs and trade packs already set and made for groups like the one you postulated about. They include food, water, calcium hypochlorite (pool shock packs, with directions for use). Clothing, powdered baby formula, baby bottles, and some disposable diapers can be added as needed. Perhaps not a solution, but it will help someone get by until they find a place to land, or whatever fate that they are headed to.

This is an EXCELLENT example of why and how a group is vital. One or two defenders with weapons quickly get outnumbered or overwhelmed by a superior force. Especially if you have been lacking in rest because you work all day and stand watch most of the night.

 

In a real global SHTF I don't see any of my relatives getting to my place... I have a niece who followed in her favorite crazy uncles footsteps and Joined the Corps... of all people she would have the good sense to know when to strap on her pack and hit the road... but the rest... they would stick it out expecting the government to come to their rescue until it's to late...

Apart from the kids that still live at home, my sister in law is closest... she's over in Springfield MO... about 200 miles due east... but if transportation is down... she would dream of coming here...

truth is I just don't foresee a lot of movement out of the cities even after the food runs out.... they just dont think like we do

 

I'm very lucky as to where I live the people around me have been living like peppers their whole lives .Also have 16 family members within 10 miles ,so as far as being alone I don't see that as problem . I guess it's the choices we make that count ,I gave up the big pay when I was young so I could live where I do and brought my children up to do the same .I only have one that lives far off and he'll be back within the next year.
JMHO !!!!!!

 

Ok Guys...After leaving the deer camp today,I'm looking at a truck running down the railroad track's...Maintenance worker i guess...So...I'm thinking..Just how wide is that track vs. my truck wheelbase...I see a tape measure in my future...Just throw'n da bone out....
Get ya a tape measure...ccc...

 

Ah Haa...Now some see a way out of the Big City...Tks.. Grit...and +1...

 

The light at the end of the tunnel

Just make sure that the light at the end of the tunnel IS in fact the anticipated end of the disaster! : O

On a serious note....I would be redirecting squatters to "public land" such as railway corridors and state forests to set up their self sufficient survival holdings.

 

...ccc...^^^ Chello old boy...The only tunnels we have run under the Bayou...

 

Good video, however I have no plans to go to the city after SHITF.

 

"when I think of Group dynamics... who I want on my side... it's not the hard core Rambo types... but regular folks who have skills like farming, medicine, animal husbandry, carpenters and teachers people good with kids..."

- Dave

Right, but the most important parameter will be character, very closely aligned with "regular."

Combine that with "hard core," and that's not unusual, and a good team is possible.

 

IMO, the best group will contain a balance of all types.

 

While I can readily accept the premise that a group of like-minded, productive individuals, with varied skill-sets would provide an increased chance of survival; I am struck by the thought that each of those individuals will bring with them their own baggage. That baggage isn't apparent now. It will only become apparent afterward.

I look at my own baggage, in the form of relatives and friends who didn't have the foresight to prepare, and realize that they will be my problem to deal with. In a group though, it would become a group problem.

For instance, if I joined a group, and one of my grown kids showed up with their family; am I going to turn out my own kid? No. The group then has a decision. Do they accept this addition, or do they turn out me along with my baggage. What if there are eight or nine of us in the group, and each has a similar piece of baggage? We are now talking about a massive change to the size and dynamic of the group. Even if only two or three of us had a relative show up, it would result in a huge change.

Maybe there are those of us who have no such baggage, but I would think that they would be the exception, rather than the rule. I think that most of us could expect family and friends to show up eventually, and all of our carefully laid plans would be shaken up considerably. It seems to me that in a group of people, the shaking up would be multiplied to the point that any plan would become nearly meaningless.

While I applaud prior planning, in any endeavor, as the old adage states: "No battle plan survives the first shot being fired"; I feel that for myself, my "group" will only become apparent after the smoke begins to clear. I can and will continue to prep, but exactly for what, and for whom, I am prepping, will only become clear after the fact.

 

I think a well knit group even of 6-8 people would get you thru the hard times with proper skill sets and some redundancy in certain areas. And all know how to patrol etc

 

6-8 men or ??

 

I have two people I will bring in if the need ever arose, and each come with some baggage but it's either manageable, or welcome. One is supplied to the gills with everything under the sun, but is older and lives alone. He has one brother, who apparently bought every gun he ever saw over the past 50 years, and who also stockpiles food and supplies. Their location is shite though so if the need were to arise it would be a no-brainer for them to relocate to my place. The other is younger, not as well supplied but he's got a good start and getting better. He can fix anything, never complains, and is always in a good mood. His baggage is a 2 year old daughter, but I can deal with that.

Sadly, MY baggage includes the Mr's sons from a previous marriage, their wives and kids, plus his parents, and probably his sister & brother in law and THEIR grown ass kids AND grandkids. Not a single one of which will contribute anything but whining, except for maybe the bro-in-law. My family is equally useless, but too far away to appear on the doorstep. I also have a friend who has made it clear she thinks she will show up with her whiny spoiled ADD kids in tow as well. I can't get her to buy even a weeks' worth of food because "that's no fuuuuuun!!"

Reading that, looks like *I* am the one no group would want.

 

I think someone else said it best....
Tell em' you'll need a 10K deposit per head prior to them showing up...
That way you can buy enough prep's....
Just a rough count from your post...I see about 100K due to you...