Solar Problems

Ummmmm....oooookaaaayyyyy. That was weird!

 

No sir , 60 watt panel for what ? And the way your hooking the system up is WEIRD !!
Here YOU need education 101:
Northern Arizona Wind & Sun Solar Forum
A Forum run by Enthusiasts of MidNite Solar - Index
OutBack Power Technologies User Forum • Index page
Im on all 3 PLUS & YOU need to read !!
Say you didn't buy china stuff & are not using a square wave /MSV etc.

Steep is coming

 

I am sorry Cruisin Sloth, I did not mean to be rude, it is just that your reply did not make sense to me. First, I am not sure how my "math is all wrong" I am aware that a 60 panel will not power my laptop directly/ But then I am not trying to do that either.
Anyway, I think things may have gotten a bit off topic in terms of my op. But that said, I have gotten alot of great advice from all of you.\

I have been doing some searching and I did find some 305 watt panels for less than $250, and that seems a pretty decent price. I am going to pick up 2 of those and a 2 more of the same battery I have. Yes, my battery is smallish, but if I build my bank with these batteries, I think I should be good and that allows me to spread out my cost better. Especially since I also need to pick up charge controlller, which is another hundred bucks.

Yes, I am learning and thank you for those links. I am signing up on all 3 now.

 

Never connect an inverter to the charge controller output ports. They are intended to power small loads like a light.
Only connect the inverter directly to the battery.

 

I read all the responses and think I have something that has not already been suggested.

When you "connect from the charge controller to the inverter, then plug a load in, the inverter low voltage alarm sounds off almost immediately." do you mean to say that the the battery is not connected at all and you are running directly off the solar with no battery?

If so, then that is your problem. Solar chargers (at least every one I've ever seen) must be connected to a battery. They will not work with just a solar panel. If you connect the panel, the battery, and the inverter together, it should work.

Another suggestion is to connect the inverter directly to the battery and not the load outputs on the controller. Your inverter wants to see a battery, not a battery through another device.

As for wire gauge sizes and all that, yes you should use proper wire, but that's not what's causing your problem and it should not matter too much if the wire runs are not long. A 400 watt inverter will pull about 30 or so amps of DC, but I doubt a 35 amp battery will do that for more than a few seconds. Making the wire bigger is not going to magically make your problem go away.

Hope this is helpful.

 

I was assuming that the battery was connected since the instructions for the charge controller will say not to try and use the charge controller to power a load with out a battery.

 

And they have the "Ability" to CRAM amps back in when on surface & the air venting is at max also .
A very rude / crude EQ , but they are extra thick plates.
Slow charging and Paralleling strings is a huge killer , or as we say in the solar world, time to death less than a year !
@wpmasterdesign

List all the stuff you bought & where from & make model .
Then , Maybe we might know how to answer a question.
Never hook any panel straight to a load unless you know the alliance factor , a way to start fires or kill things . .
This stuff is somewhat EZ , but DO NOT FUDGE THE RULES , THEY WERE put there from older than us learning & the math is always correct.
Post your stuff you have & quit buying till you know basic math for RE power.
Sloth

 

Sounds like you are making progress! There are a few general rules of thumb I use in my years of solar operation.....
Good rule on battery is approx 10 to 15 times the charge current from your panels. example: panels output 5 amps charge, battery of 50 AH is a good choice... 10 amps -- 100AH battery
(does depend on continuous load draw YMMV) Voltage is not a factor here...

Battery rule is don't discharge any lead acid battery more than 50% (80% is better for longer life)
(Charge and use separately unless you have batteries of same exact type of the same date of mfg.
This goes for parallel or series connections.)

Wire rule is larger gauge is better... shorter length are better.... higher voltages equal lower losses...
So if you are using an inverter place it as close to battery as possible and run your 110 volt wire the rest of the way.... Do not run low voltage DC at high current any distance as losses an expense are greater.
10 amps flowing through 10awg wire for 100ft equals 1 volt of loss (and/or 10 watts of lost power)
For every 3 wire gauge change your losses will change by 1/2 (10 awg to 13 awg would mean your losses would be 2 volts and 20 watts burnt up in the wire)

The fewest gadgets and least distance between the battery and your load device is the least loss solution....

Just a general guideline FWIW This is just a thumbnail sketch of all the possible tricks to system building...

Don't worry, have fun, learn a lot! and welcome....

(Solar design and electrical work since mid 70"s... 37 yrs IBEW)

 

More good rule of thumb!

I run a 48 volt system (7 KWH storage) with 6800 watts of PVA for a measured 5025 watts to the grid.
The battery bank is stand alone and acts as a UPS in case of power failure.... 2500 watt inverter switches so fast we don't usually know power failed! Solar and back up is habit forming!

 

Nice system & Im seeing your @ C10 on your post ,so your in a sunny area.
FLA's like better than C10% while Gell/AGM are less & Li-ION Ps-cl like less but constant voltage .
Many in greater north & south of the center require more panels , them on the cloud areas even more !!

I know 60 watts was the question & one a month from a new join & they have never read forum OR found my links !

IBEW 258 for the same years also .

Sloth

 

Yes a battery is connected to the charge controller

 

Hey all, I am sorry I dropped this thread for awhile, I got super busy and have not had time to check it. Thanks for all the great replies.

So in the time since my last post here, I have begun planning my "primary" system. I used acouple online calculators to figure out my average power needs, then to ensure I am never without power, I doubled it. So what I feel I need is a 2000W system.

I need to build this piece by piece as I have a monthly budget of around $300 to put into it. So here is an outline of my basic plan and you can fill in the blanks or tell me what I need to change:

The entire system will be made up of 100w mono panels as I can get these for around $125 each.
I will build a battery bank of (I am thinking) 5-7 144amp hour marine batteries (I found a source for these at $75/ea)
I currently have 40ish feet pair of black and red 10 wire, and 25 feet of black and red 12 wire. I think that will be more than sufficient
I am planning on ordering this inverter: Amazon.com: MicroSolar 12V 1000W (Peak 2000W) Pure Sine Wave Inverter - with Battery Cable & Remote Wire Controller: Car Electronics
And this charge controller:Amazon.com : ENZPOWER 40Amp PWM 12V 24V Auto With LCD Intelligent Solar Panel Battery Regulator Solar Charge Controller Temperature Compensation (LCD-40A) : Patio, Lawn & Garden

I would, based on the advice above, wire the bank in series, connect the charge controller to the bank and then to the solar array.

That is about as far as I have gotten to be honest. So alright ya'll, please educate me some more!

 

Ummmm OK....
Congratulations on busting into solar!
Since you are a low energy user 12 dc can work for you....
I am hopeful the batteries are 6 volt if you plan on wiring anything in series otherwise you will end up with too high a voltage. Using bigger 6volt batteries in series will give better performance under heavier loading than parallel 12 volt batteries..... Short heavy wires and a battery switch will alow two bank usage, using fuses for safety.... Size your wire correctly! 1200 watts at 12 volts equals 100 amps!!! That needs to be 2awq wire at a minimum!!! Nearly 5 times larger than 10awg to feed that hungry inverter..... Centrally locating batteries close to heavy loads will reduce losses. Light loads like lighting won't care as much so longer distances and smaller wire works fine... Using 14 awg romex is handy for lighting and best price...
Lots of tricks to learn in solar offgrid!

 

I am using 12 volt Ever Start Marine Batteries. I have 2 now. The way I currently do it, is I use one battery while the other is on the solar. When the one I am using gets down to 11.9, I switch the alligator clamps to the other battery and connect the solar panel to the one I just finished using. Doing it this way seems to work pretty well and I can usually get through about 2 days of usage per battery.
I am currently using a simple 400 watt inverter, which is working out fine right now. I only plan on the bigger inverter because I anticipate I will need more power later.
I do keep my wires all as short as I can.
Now, I recently ran accross an idea and wander what you guys might think about it. The idea is a modular setup. So rather than building one larger array to provide all of my power, set up small solar modules like the one I mentioned above. Each module power a limited number of devices and consists of the following:
1-2 battties
1 60-100w panel
1 400w inverter
1 20 amp charge controller

The advantage I see here is that I can have one compact setup in my shed/home office to power my computer, monitor, and printer. I can have 1 setup in my 447sf home to power my wifes laptop and charge our 4 mobile devices, and I can easily build additional units as needed since cost per unit is around 250.
I wont need these units to power any lights as I already have several solar lights to cover our needs there.
Our heat is provided by wood. Cooking by propane. We dont own or want a tv, we watch on the computers. Right now here is everything we CURRENTLY use power for:
Lights (covered by solar lights though)
2 laptops (Only plugged in when charging, avg 4hr/day/laptop)
1 Laser printer, plugged in avg of 10 minutes a day, only when in use
1 19" LCD monitor, on 8-10 hours a day when I am working
2 tablets and 2 phones (again, only plugged in when charging)

Here is what we ANTICIPATE adding in the next 6 months or so
Security camera system, consisting of 6 wifi cameras.
12v water pump

Again, any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Modular setup with ability to reconfigure is always good.
I have multiple setups as I've been doing this for nearly 40 yrs now. Still have my first panel.... It was a prototype panel for the first "Tiros" satellite. That's long ago when we were designing the new breed of sat power systems.... First PWM modules in space for the Intelstat 5 TVRO sats ( known as Galaxy 5 ).
Portable system for me is 2@ 155watt panels piano hinged with ability to fold face to face and latch plus a suitcase handle to carry. 12awg wire is coiled to fit inside lip of back side with Anderson Powerpole quick connect plugs (genderless power connector). Short lead from panel then ability to extend with the two 25ft 12awg Marine wire (red and black fine strands). Using a Morningstar SunSaver MPPT charge controller also configured with powerpole connectors. This alows on the fly configuration as neded. Best part is panels protect each other and easy to carry. The addition of a couple pvc legs in panel storage makes setting up a snap. Tops off with a pair of 55ah Werker gell cells (not too heavy to carry the pair plus it balances). Power is distributed using a 6 position marine fuse block (screwed connections never spade!) 3 spots powerpole connectors (input to block uses double powerpoles for better connections). Can use one or two batteries, same with panels plus easy ability to bypass charge controller should it fail. Similar setup runs my ham shack for past 5 years and no days off.
Sorry I seem to be very wordy today!

 

LOL, no apologies I am happy for all input as I learn!
I have used multiple online caclulators to determine my enrgy needs. I find that I use a max of 2.78Kwh/day. So if I double that, to allow for low sun days and occassional excess usage, I get 5.56Kwh/day.
Now, split that down into 2 setups. The one constant is the batteries: 12v 140a/h deep cycle marine batteries. That is a constant because I already bought them, both less than a month ago. Can you tell me your recomendations for the remaining components for each setup?
I am not looking for specific product recomendations just size/configuration/qty of the following:
1. Charge controllers
2. Wire
3. Batteries (should I buy more, if yes, are the ones I have now good, or should I get bigger/smaller?)
4. Inverter
5. Anything else I should have

 

The batteries you have will do fine (if you need more you will discover that yourself soon enough!).
If you planing on splitting the system I I would suggest you pick up a marine battery switch with OFF, A, B, and BOTH settings. Battery wiring should be done with minimum 4awg wire with crimp or compression lugs (I like 2awg to 1/0 welding wire) If only planning on charging one battery at a time then most any charge controller would work. Prefer PWM or better MPPT type controller (more energy recovered from panels with MPPT). One with a volts/amp display is always nice. Distribution depends on load and distance. 100watts needs 12 awg if under 10 ft... 10 if under 20ft 8awg for 30 to minimize loss. 10 watts needs 18awg then 16 then 14 then 12 depending on distance as before. Romex is cheap and usable for fixed wiring.... stranded wire for flexable connections YMMV
If you want a separate display Amazon has a lot of digital panel meters with shunt for under $20 (I use the 50amp version). It gives you a good idea of your usage or generation depending on how you wire it into the circuit. (tricky in that the shunt is wired into the negative side of ckt soooo watch where you ground the system!!!!) Since I use Anderson Powerpole connections I find the " Watts Up" inline volt/amp/pwr/ah/cumulative wh meter (meant for RC cars etc) great for measuring usage of any one device (I use one on solar panel side of charge controller to verify operation). Fuse block (ATC type) with PPole connector is sweet if you end up using one. I very much endorse some type of fuse/breaker on your battery! West Marine is a good place to look for these items whether you buy there or not. Important reminder WIRE YOUR INVERTER to THE BATTERY preferably via a fuse. Keep wire leads as short as possible... Remember "Murphy happens" so do it right.
A short tutorial in voltage drop would be a great thing to take if there is someone nearby to help you.
Takes getting brain warped to get any kind grip on it. Once there it make perfect sense!
As for inverters there are too many to say the best... I am using a commercial Deltec 2500w UPS style but don't recommend for you.
Lots of good info on line, but don't believe any one person until you see it elsewhere as well. (Most solar providers are OK though)
Trust but verify!