SM Book Club- Starship Trooper- DISCUSSION

agree! even made em look like they were wearing nazi style uniforms...

IIRC the producer/director set out to destroy the story... for those that never read the book makes the author look pretty crappy!

 

This is true, of course, and it is an awful thing for an innocent to be wrongly convicted. Thankfully, science is ensuring there is less and less of a chance of that occurring, things like DNA testing...

 

I couldn't agree more....the religious conversion theme in SSTIII was execrable. Robert A. Heinlein would be spinning in his grave. Robert A. Heinlein Quotes on God and Religion Robert A. Heinlein - Freedom From Religion Foundation

Starship Troopers III: Marauder
Methinks SSIII plumbed more than a few Hollywood atheist tropes
Hollywood Atheist - TV Tropes

 

@Motomom34

DKR said: ↑
A society without rules (call it a social contract if you will) is not a working society. Nor, is that ever to become one. Having rules and following same is what makes a rabble into a 'culture'.
I do not know.We currently have lots of rules, laws and yet we are seeing things breaking down in areas (inner city)

I had earlier noted that:
I would add that if the culture (society) that the person resides in openly accepts crime, rampart illegitimacy and drug dealing, for example, as a normal way of living, then that culture is past broken or dysfunctional. That society is, in fact, engaged in constant, low order warfare against the larger, rule based participative society from which it is subtended. In this context, riots are just a spike in the ongoing and constant warfare with the larger whole.

So - to my earlier point - the 'breakdown' is less a rejection of the rules/laws and more like open warfare against the greater whole of the working parts of our Society.....

How long would the 'inner-city' and their related absolute dependency on others outside of the AO last without massive tax spending for water, sewer, electric and food/water or housing? I dare say the shelf life of those areas would be measured in hours. Witness: New Orleans before the hurricane...

I am not a heartless bastard, BTW, just an observer of the obvious.

 

Service!
That could've [should've?] been the [sub]title of the book, as that is what it is about, and really All that it is about...
This book was rah's farewell to juvenile books, and his farewell message to his juvenile fans was;
"Youngsters!! As you pass from juvenility to adulthood [pass from being the object of service to the subject of service]; you will obtain rights for your dutys [chosen for you] performed, and privileges for your responsibilities [chosen by you] selected." Or;
"Voting [election-selection] is not a privilege that you may choose, it is a privilege awarded to those who choose [elect-select] to serve."
Note: see all the addresses of the founders, especially Geo.Washington's farewell address.
alsoNote: the rights/dutys aspect, being religious [as all Actual rights come from g-d], and therefore not covered in the book;
as attested to by the fact that even the military 'duty' wasn't a duty [didn't have rights attached, only privileges] but a responsibility, as one could 'opt-out' even in battle;
is a signature of R.A.H., he always left religion [rights/dutys] out of his books.

If one looks at the only 'american dictionary of the english language' [webster's 1828], one can see that the book addresses almost all of the different aspects of Service;

=-==
Service
SERV'ICE, n. [From L. servitium.]
1. In a general sense, labor of body or of body and mind, performed at the command of a superior, or the pursuance of duty, or for the benefit of another. Service is voluntary or involuntary. Voluntary service is that of hired servants, or of contract, or of persons who spontaneously perform something for another's benefit. Involuntary service is that of slaves, who work by compulsion.
2. The business of a servant; menial office.
3. Attendance of a servant.
4. Place of a servant; actual employment of a servant; as, to be out of service.
5. Any thing done by way of duty to a superior.
This poem was the last piece of service I did for my master king Charles.Dryden.
6. Attendance on a superior.
Madam, I entreat true peace of you, Which I will purchase with my duteous service. Shak.
7. Profession of respect uttered or sent.
Pray do my service to his majesty. Shak.
8. Actual duty; that which is required to be done in an office; as, to perform the services of a clerk, a sherif or judge.
9. That which God requires of man; worship; obedience.
God requires no man's service upon hard and unreasonable terms. Tillotson.
10. Employment; business; office; as, to qualify a man for public service.
11. Use; purpose. The guns are not fit for public service.
12. Military duty by land or sea; as a military or naval service.
13. A military achievment.
14. Useful office; advantage conferred; that which promotes interest or happiness.
Medicine often does no service to the sick; calumny is sometimes of service to an author.
15. Favor.
To thee a woman's services are due. Shak.
16. The duty which a tenant owes to his lord for his fee.
Personal service consists in homage and fealty, &c.
17. Public worship or office of devotion.
Divine service was interrupted.
18. A musical church composition consisting of choruses, trios, duets, solos, &c.
19. The official duties of a minister of the gospel, as in church, at a funeral, marriage, &c.
20. Courses; order of dishes at table.
There was no extraordinary service seen on the board. Hakewill.
21. In seamen's language, the material used for serving a rope, as spun yarn, small lines, &c.
22. A tree and its fruit, of the genus Sorbus. The wild service is of the genus Crataegus.

Service of a writ, process, &c. the reading of it to the person to whom notice is intended to be given, or the leaving of an attested copy with the person or his attorney, or at his usual place of abode.
Service of an attachment, the seizing of the person or goods according to the direction.
The service of an execution, the levying of it upon the goods, estate or person of the defendant.
=-==

Yeah, even 22; sorbus[red] crataegus[strong] could mean the communist chinese threat, or 'wild service'....

While most focus on the military service [which he, I, and I reckon most of you, chose] as being the only 'service' in the book, can anyone point to one [of the 22 definitions] that isn't [atleast metaphorically] in the book?

 

"So by treating a criminal kindly, we are cruel and inhumane to the victims."

One might say, based on demonstrated judicial conduct, that criminals now have more rights than the people they victimize.

This not to say that people arrested shouldn't have rights (to a impartial and speedy trail) and protections, they should. Sadly, too many lawyers (shudder) work hard to game the system, play games with jury selection and other shenanigans that - in the end - really wind up just cheating society. In too many cases, some crimes are just ignored.

Cheated of what you ask?
-Cheated of being safe on the street or in one's own home. This safety is rapidly becoming a thing of myth. As pointed out in SST, this leads to the rise of "Committees of Vigilance" as has happened more than once in the history of North America.
-Cheated of fair elections. Demonstrated fraud is rarely prosecuted.
You can add the myriad of cheats by "Judicial activism" that enact extra-Constitutional Law by fiat......

So the society described in SST - the North American Empire - seemed at the time to be very much scifi fantasy. Today, it doesn't look so far-fetched.....

 

Another note-

(Little Rock police: 17 injured after nightclub shooting)

Little Rock police: 17 injured after nightclub shooting

The story also makes this point -
The shooting follows a week in which there have been about a dozen drive-by shootings in the capital city, though there’s no indication the events are linked.

Little Rock is listed as one of the "The Ten Safest Cities" in the US by a major real estate web site.

Kinda makes one wonder...

 

I did not read the book and have no plans to waste time doing so. The Movie was about as dumb as I have ever seen. The bug being the bad guy and the Fascist being the good guy. Doogie hauser as a commander , ??? LOL. The whole Idea of the plot is a joke. Service? It draws a lot of parallels from Nazi Germany and or communism. I rejected the movie as I reject both of those ideologies.

 

The movie was nothing like the book. They did use some of the names.

 

If you had read the book you would spit on the movie... the differences are MAJOR!

Fascist Gov?... was NOT portrayed so in the book... is a way better and very different read then the movie!

and by all reports the producer/directer did this INTENTIONALLY!

the only thing IMHO they have in common is the same name... otherwise...

 

Stumbled across this - that it fit with the SST meme of "American Empire"...only today.

 

The only thing missing from this meme is..."Would you like to know more?"

 

a point that comes to mind... yes we have many laws... thing is in way too many areas of our nation those laws are being ignored or blatantly broken...

case in point recently someone attacked a politician and the local DA released em back on the street real quick!!!

and going back a ways many BLM and Antifa were bailed out and/or released almost immediately...

how does that do anything toward protecting the public they supposedly serve???

also asking young folk (children) about canning and beatings... I don't think that is necessarily the correct question...

the first thing in their minds is... me... and the next is nope don't want that!!! so their answer is pretty much already decided BEFORE you even ask...

just some opinions...

 

the movie was a deliberate slam to the book... the differences in the book and the movie are MAJOR!

as has been said the director deliberately set out to destroy the book and it's contents by CHANGING many things...

the uniforms were selected to try to convey Nazi's on purpose... again a slam on the book and author...

reading the actual story might just be well worth your time...

just an opinion...

 

I have been reconsidering this concept of Vet's only for governmental service.

John McCain comes to mind real quick.

How many others that had taken the oath of service and then betrayed that promise once in elected government service?