SHTF gun whats your ideal gun?

I have some BP loads in my .45-70 double rifle, I have loaded a bunch of .45LC that I shoot in my single actions and lever rifles. A chronograph is near the top of my wish-list right now. The primer compound that I used was simply crushed strike-anywhere matches made into a paste with alcohol. To reload primers, I use a dental pick to remove the anvil from spent primers, then I take a punch made from a flattened 16D nail to knock out the firing pin indentation. The compound is put in and the anvil replaced. Out of the last 100 I loaded, only a few failed to fire. I have also reloaded .22 rimfire using the same compound and a toothpick to push the paste under the rim. Better than half of them went bang.

 

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Thanks Seacowboy. You gave me a lot of good ideas to mull over.

 

Glock 17, sks, M14 with cases of ammo.

 

If I had to choose between my AR and my AK for hitting the road with family in tow, attempting to escape desperate rioters in town and in the hills/mountains, I'd hop on the railroad tracks and head out of town under as much concealment as possible. Each family member with a backpack on, me with the...AR. Both the 7.62x39 and 5.56 cartridge are more than adequate for stopping a man. The reason for the AR is because it's just a pinch under 7lbs and the AK us just a pinch under 10lbs. Then there's the ammo/mags. And another popular factor, which won't matter since any engagement I'd be in would likely be under 100 yards, but between 200-400 yards, the AR in my hands will still stop people in a reliable manner unlike the AK in my hands. AR wins hands down on this topic.



...and of course the glock 21sf on the hip full of 230grain num-nums!

 

Is that a Magpul forend and is the light a Surefire G3?

 

Yeah, it's the Magpul MOE handguard. I decided against doing the railed handguard with VFG and stuff and wanted to keep it light and lean. However, the ELzetta polymer flashlight mount on the front sight post while very ergonimic, light weight and durable over many hundreds of rounds, is now gone. I put a small 2" aluminum rail on the 10 o'clock position of the handguard and put my big light in it which is the MC-E based Triton by Olight. It's 700 lumens at the emitter and probably upper 550's out the front based on CPF reviews I've read.

But the light in this picture is just a nitrolon G2 surefire with the original plastic head (most people put the more durable metal head on there) and it has the 200 lumen Q5 drop-in I ordered from Deal Extreme for like $13. Surprisingly that flashlight with it's delicate chinese drop-in has stayed put and functional through at least 600 rounds. I just replaced it with my M30 Triton because I live in a very rural area and I want the light to help me ID critters/predators out past 200 yards which that light does very well. The G2 was good to about 100 yards safely.

This is the current configuration.

 

For home defense: What i own.
Shotgun:Winchester Super X2 Semi auto 12ga.
Pistol: 357mag Ruger or FNP 45
SHTF: 308WCF In a remington 700/ stock pillar bedded X trigger. Burris 4.5x14 ballistiplex scope.
Hunting: 300WM SS Ruger Laminate stock, Burris 4.5x14 ballistiplex scope.
T/C Encore Pro Hunter, with 243 bergara barrel SS. T/C Custom shop 338wm with muzzle break.
Saving for a M1A, to add to the family.

 

Ya, right up until the point when you have to scratch the crud out of the gas key with a dental pick

JUST KIDDING!! - really sorry, just couldn't resist.

 

AR15.
Noveske16" N4 Light Recce Upper, LaRue lower, with an AAC suppressor, and a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10 x 32 Compact.

 

Tis why they say a "properly maintained AR15" is just as reliable as an AK. I have both a Arsenal SGL20 and two ARs. I realize that in my climate, if I had to traverse mountains, snow, rain, and mud daily for months and months, and fire many hundreds of rounds regularly without cleaning that yes, the AK with it's looser tolerances would win the day. But since I, nor probably 99% of the population won't have to put their ARs in that predicament..that the overinflated AK "reliability" dominance is a bunch of hot air...as much as the overinflated "glock reliability superiority" mindset makes M&Ps, XDs, and the other tupperware guns less reliable. Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

I think when I get back, I am going to have to do a test to show what an AR is capable of. I will start with a detailed examination of the carbine and why I choose the components I choose (I haven't bought a complete 5.56 rifle in a long time. I can build quality, reliable ARs in the $600-$800 price range by carefully searching.) I will fork over the 1k or so for the rounds and shoot it without cleaning for as long as it will. Periodic squirts of CLP onto the bolt. I think I will tote it over some mountainous, desert terrain as well. Rain or shine and see how much the environment plays into it.

I already know how it will turn out. I live it. Despite the results, there will still be nay-sayers that talk in theoretical terms instead of actual performance.

It is decided. I shall do this.

 

This is very true. I own an AK and I bought it for price only. I love the reliability. I've never had a single malfunction out of thousands of rounds. They also appeal to me from a mechanical standpoint. I love eastern block guns like the AK and Makarov because they were able to do so much with so little. I mean sheet metal and rivets - so simple. They say that during the cold war the Soviets were popping these out for $15 a copy!

There are huge drawbacks: accuracy sucks. ergonomics sucks. They're heavy and awkward.

I'm still searching for the best of both worlds though, and you have to admit that the AR platform has one huge disadvantage and that's price (especially ammo nowadays). The cleaning/lubrication/assembly/dissasembly component doesn't excite me even though it may be overstated.

Like I said. Searching for the best of both worlds. I'd like to see the hindsight on the piston models in a few years. (and I thought that the SEALS requested the SCAR which is what started the craze. That makes it a bit more than a marketing ploy, but whatever)

Sorry if I upset anyone with my obnoxious comment. It was meant in jest. I'm not an AK snob or AR detractor by any means.

 

Looks like I might have started or exacerbated an AK/AR debate! Weee! But in reality, how boring would this world be if we didn't have endless caliber and AK vs. AR debate! We all know the answers to the debates if we've been in a few, but it's still fun to do.

A very insightful read over at ar15.com where a well esteemed training guru with much more hands-on time with the AR platform than most on the forum (Pat Rogers) fields a ton of questions regarding proper builds, reliability, what lasts, what doesn't, etc. Probably a good 64 pages, of which I've gone comatose after maybe 45. Anyway, part of what makes his word very convincing is his 20+ years of armorer, mil/LE/contract work training various groups, and of course his two decades as a trainer at gunsite. From his probably thousands of classes he's advised prospective students saying to avoid the "hobby" guns, the builds that run "just like Colt!" and the other knock offs that aren't built to "the standard." He's seen every make and model of ar15 come through his trying course and has seen what breaks, what doesn't, which bolts, barrels, mounts, optics, buis, carriers, gas keys, etc. etc. fail, break, come loose, etc. He operates his own training group and in it he requires attendees to bring a "servicable rifle." In the above mentioned thread he discusses what it means and how it is annoying to get guys with their budget hobby rifles that "do just as good as..." and by 300-500 rounds into the course, they're using a loaner and slowing everyone down. He says that ARs are good to go bone dry until about 500 rounds..and you can just squirt some oil into the gas holes on the carrier and be good for a few more hundred rounds. Obviously wet is better, but todays quality ARs don't need the babying they used to.

ANyway, he does talk about AKs and as mentioned above, any rifle breaks. The first things to go on a quality AR will start, on average, around 10k rounds (like a cracked bolt or carrier). I forget the life expectancy he gives the quality AR rifles, and what it is for AKs..but both are good, both can break under 1k rounds, some can make it to 20k without a hiccup.

To hopefully end something I might have started, I'd submit that in "my opinion" during the SHTF scenario I stated earlier, I'd want the AR most because it's much more portable, and I'd add that I'm more confident with it and stopping what may need stopping with it than the AK. One factor that has swayed me to the 5.56 is that between 2700-3200 FPS, the M193 cartridge begins it's tumbling and thrashing in 4" of meat...and the slower, bigger 7.62x39 round usually takes a good 9-12" to start it's yawing and damage..if at all. And in my keyboard commando prowess studies of the opinions and facts of others who do shoot bad guys, a clean bullet hole through someone is not a sign of stopping them.

 

Yikes! I agree with the chillax invite. Further, your pictures do nothing but show that "an AK47 rifle" took some abuse..or at least looks abused. It says nothing of reliability in the context of the debate at hand...namely, which platform is ideal for SHTF (which is vague and applies to each person here differently).

Some better questions are:
1) What do I define as "reliable" in regards to a specific weapon platform? Do you really need to bury it in silt on a frozen river bank for 6 months, thaw it, light it on fire, then boil it in battery acid for an hour before dragging it behind a dune buggy through the desert? Or does it need to go bang at 100, 300, 500, 800, 1000 rounds after you yanked it from your safe (hopefully cleaned and void of any maltreatments of your own)?

2) What is SHTF? Is it like the movie "I am Legend?" "Escape from New York?" "Zombieland?" Jokes aside, it's whatever you imagine can happen when "your" society goes to pot and people get desperate and aggressive, right? If you're wondering if you can go 1000 rounds in a gunfight and never clean, then you have a bigger question - "Am I in GOD mode?!?!?" ..and you don't need a gun anymore.

3) Why argue about such a useless topic? No matter which platform you prefer, is the other really that crappy that you'd not use it if you had to? Do you think you'd only get 50 rounds off before it jammed because it's such an inferior action?

 

Then all I have to say to Mags is, "Why, oh why, would you torture such a marvelous piece of machinery?" Even if it's a crookedly assembled (century) wasr, it doesn't deserve that punishment! lol Actually, looks like an old AMD?