SHTF gun whats your ideal gun?

Bro, Bitter much?

 

As a buddy used to tell the shave tails and baby 0's (zero's)," I was walkin the walk when you was sh*tt*n' yellow."
I get the feeling that there are a lot of monkeys that could use that line and a lot that are newbies, you just can't tell until you get the lay of the land. Either way, they ALL deserve to be heard and recieve the respect they show others.
While I respect your service (as you intimate it) I would ask that you check the attitude and let the rest of us enjoy our rec' time. I think that you'll find the only time someone gets defensive around here is when they perceive an assault. Grab a smoke, take a walk and come on back. I think that everyone is entitled to a bad day and/or a learning curve about the local culture and how to communicate with the natives.
That's all. Now I'm going back to catch up on the forums while I finish sanding my Atlatl.

 

Just read your post after responding to you previously. In my humble opinion, you lie. I had three uncles that did real time in Europe and the Pacific in WW2. My cousin was in Korea and his son in Vietnam. Funny thing is, they never talked about it. They never bitched about it and they certainly never lorded their service over others. I do however believe the drinking scotch aspect of your post. Done with you!

 

What a shame to see him go. After dealing with college kids nearly a third my age for the last couple of years I try to stay objective and to understand where someone is coming from but, some guys just push my buttons. Guess I should abide by what I used to tell my kids, "Ignorant people are there to be ignored." rather than fuel the fire. I used to be a lot more tolerant of other folks ways. Guess I'm getting crotchety in my old age.

 

Man what was his problem?? This was a question about what is your Ideal gun if the crap hits the fan not best war rifle or best battle rifle or even best combat rifle. I hate Ak variants . I have trained with 5 different guys who have brought them to the range and could not qualify for simple Militia qualification. The Army sergeant was correct that they are worthless outside of 100 yards except for suppression fire. Don't get me wrong any rifle is going to kill you if you hit in the right spot. I have a sweet AR-15 but its not by far the best survival rifle I have. Survival and combat are two totally different things. I have to strongly disagree with Army sergeant when he called us all Mall ninjas. Nope its Mall ninjas that think they are going off to war if the shtf. Most of us know full well we need a good dependable fighting rifle and any proven caliber will do. I have proven beyond any doubt that in my neck of the woods which is Michigan's Lower pen. FOR SURVIVAL I dont need anything but a .22 bolt action rifle. Ammo is cheap even for top shelf like CCI. I blew a hole right through a deers head at 30 yards. I take deer all the time from 10 to 30 yards with a crossbow so I can now replace those 8 dollar crossbow bolts for a 5 cent .22 round. My .22 Marlin 981T scoped with a Redfield Revolution 2 by 7 is head shot on anything Im going to shoot accurate out to 40 yards. I practice on Pictures of squirrel heads. This rifle can soot the little .22 CB Shorts and if I want to zap a man at 150 yards Ill use an Aguila or CCI Velocitor. For deer at close range(40 yards and under) the 40 grain solid CCI Mini Mag .

So , Any way this type of crap always happens when people try and fit a size 12 foot into a size 6 shoe.

 

Free entertainment! Not that I'm siding with armysgt - he needs to learn how to deal with people - but he could have made some good points with a bit more humility (to say the least). Whatever a Mall Ninja is in his mind, we should watch that we don't think more highly of ourselves than we ought - hard work at any job gets my respect.

Diligently trying to get the firearms that work for your situation with the money you have is what it's all about. Personally, I'd like to get a lot more than I have, but gun-lust is problematic.

My ideal firearm today is an AR15.

 

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

He did raise some issues worth discussing, and although some of his ideas had a modicum of merit, he was just a little overly sensitive about any critique of his opinions that were perhaps a little bit less than sensible. I think he left of his own accord, rather than being banned or driven out. Perhaps he felt that his brilliance would be better appreciated elsewhere.

If army sgt were to return, I would be prepared to give his posts a fair hearing, offering agreement with what I feel to be sound, and offering criticism of what I feel to be unsound.

As to the ideal SHTF gun....as far as I'm concerned, no such single firearm exists. Much depends upon the purposes that a firearm is to be put to, and the most likely environment that it will be employed in, what kind of targets are to be engaged, and at what expected ranges. Availability of ammunition, spare parts, ease of maintenance, reliability, lethality, accuracy, and a myriad of other considerations which ought also be considered become part of the selection criteria. Because of the many variables to be considered, no single firearm is likelyto meet all criteria equally or even necessarily exceptionally well. Inevitably compromises have to be made, trading off one capability for another that is valued more highly. It is for that reason that the battery of guns concept is often suggested by gun pundits, wherein at least one, and desireably more than one firearm is kept for each major need.

Hunting / varminting / cattle slaughtering

Training and skill maintenance

Close self defence

Medium - long range self defence.

 

Too bad...an occasional "fingidiot" is fun to play with and I missed this one...

Oh well, I am sure another will make his way here...it is one thing of which there will never be a shortage in the world.

 

If this guy is gone, all I can say is "Good Riddance!"

 

My pop was in the Nam,Cambodia,and Laos from 1963-1968 as a Marine Recon.
He only talked about the Hell it was with me once after getting trashed off his @$$ one night.It was the only time in my life I ever saw him cry.
When he died a box was found with 3 purple hearts,2 silver stars,and 3 bronze stars,along with some SVN ribbons that I dont know what were for.
He's who taught me the being a war Hero,doesnt mean your not an @$$#013.
He was a big mean abusive one until I turned 15.
At that point I could both out fight,and out shoot him,so I was tossed out in the streets to fend for myself.
Since then I've been a peace time 101st ABR,and as a drug war SOF.Only got into real combat in Columbia as a SOF.Never got hardly a scratch in formal combat.
State side on the other hand I've been shot(x6) more times than most combat hardened military.
Does that give me the God given right to voice my opinion.
You swore an oath to defend the Constitution.
Is that oath no longer valid??
To dog others defense chioces out of hand is stupidity.
When TSHTF one of these so called mall ninja/armchair warriors might be who's covering you and your's @$$'$,and you'll be happy to have all the booger hook's in the best bang sticks they could afford.
As far as I'm concerned your opinion means less than most here becouse of your lack of civility.
There are many of those that lack having been in the $#1+,but that doesnt nessasarily mean they dont have insight to things you havent thought of.
To dismiss them out right is STUPIDITY!
GOODBYE,AND GOOD RIDDANCE!
Matt
(P.S.)This was posted on the 2nd 12pk of Blue Moon Ale!

 

Man, you guys are tough on folks For me a 12gauge, an AK, and a couple of 22 pistols. For walking around a 1911 high cap .

 

Savage Model 24 o/u 20 gauge on bottom, .223 on the top .... that's IF I had to choose only one that I actually own and provided there was no social collapse in progress or invasion of any sort. It would be strictly for feeding the family in the woods (I cannot imagine that ever happening), and occasionally for defense against bad animals maybe ... maybe. Although I do not live in bear country.


For just about any other scenario it would be one of my M4s.

I used to have a real fetish for survival type firearms when I was a younger man, and I have a bunch of them ... I'll try to post a pic of a few, but I realized they are not ideal and only for last resort, truck guns really.

Shoots .410 and 45 Colt ...




Etc., etc., etc., ...




If they were designed for bug out survival, I probably own one ... they gotta break down and they gotta be handy and fairly accurate. Truck guns, travel guns, whatever.


In an over/under the reason I always choose 20 gauge over 12 is because of weight. Plain and simple. Weight is important. Why carry a bigger gauge when it becomes a worthless club once you run out of shells?

 

Wow, this a snivvle fest or a real discussion? You all are flingin crap like bullets in a fire fight. Here's a few facts of life:

AR's- good out to 300yds or so, gotsquat for knock and pretty much piss off big bears, Moose and Elk. So way up North forget it for hunting. As an offensive weapon it is accurate with a long barrel and a fast twist rate will stabalize the heavier lead splinters it chucks. Defense is not it's forty, like hunting big critters. The bullet is just too small and too fast to stop a truck, light armored anything and big things. Plus is it has more after market crap than about any other platform. So it can be tweaked for special purpose use. Best atribute is every jerk that dies on the battlefield prolly had one so ammo will be plentiful after the SHTF. Main draw back is reliability, or more like the lack there of.

All around score for "The" gun is a 6.

AK's-accuracy is all over from 50 to over 300yds. Get a good one and it is capable of good battle accuracy. It will always go bang with minimal maint. I got friends that say they have done it, but I still wouldn't do big pissed off bears or large moose and elk with it. As an offensive hunting gun. However, I'd feel a whole lot better dumping a mag of 7.62 into a charging bear than .223 bug spray. So equal in an offensive role, but the AK is far superior in the defensive role. Reliabilty is perfect. Ammo will be second only to .223.

All around score 9

Gonna group this next batch as 30 cal MBR. They include the FAL, M14 and HK91. These are the guns you stray into the valley of death with. Capable of killing about anything if you do your job, stopping light vehicles and penetrating light armor. Offense, nothing shy of a .50 will impress upon you the feel of impending doom than a fire team with .30's. 1000yd capable human kills. These 3 are pretty reliable if not outstanding. While I like the M14 platform as my personal favorite, I think the FAL is the superior design. that dam fluted chamber on the HK/G3 drives me nuts and holds a broke case like frickin super glue, also the un attainable trunion is just a flat out mistake in my not even close to humble position. Defensively, these are long and heavy and do lend them selves well to urban CQB and the like. Though if properly used, nothing gets that close. Ammo will be around but in far less quantity and quality than the previous two.

All around score 9


Here's a surprise one, Ruger 10/22. While lower scores across the board on offense and defense and hunting medium or above game. It is small, light, will kill a man at under a hundred yards easy, you can tote almost 10K rounds with ease and feed a squad with it in the right terrain. It can be silenced to almost a small branch snapping and ammo will be attainable after the SHTF. It is also capable in the limited roll of CQB as a sniper weapon, or just spray and pray in a hiouse. Soft target swill bleed and it goes through sheet rock.

All around score 5

Call the next one a Mossberg 500, but covers most 12 GA. scatter guns. At under 100yds it is about as good as you can get for defense and only slightly lesser in offense. One storke of the operating shaft and she will spit 9-12 hand gun bullets. Or a slug that will enter about anything. Excels at CQB. For defense it's flat out a 10. Get woke up at 4 A.M. from some sphinkter kicking in your door (badge is optional) and screw aiming, I want to point the tube in the direction of the ruckus and make it go away, 12 GA is the king here.

All around score is 7

This isn't just opinion, it's fact. Here's my opinion:

Know where you need the weapon and under what circumstances. KNow what potential dangers you probably will encounter outside the ones you expect. Understand the weapon and what it takes to feed it. Train with your weapon, of all the weapons I listed, the weak spot for all of them is you. All are capable and useful. Your brain is the most powerful and useful weapon that has ever graced mother earth.

There are many other weapons that I'd take in hand if I had to, the best one being the one ya got. Being a gunsmith for the last 25yrs has taught me many things, like the first well aimed shot wins the fight. A hand gun is only a hand weapon to get your sorry but to a real weapon and has less uses than a good knife. Any gun without bullets is an expensive rock or club. Same as one that fails.

Don't get personal over this subject as it is subjective. Training, geography, availability and a hundred other factors go into your choice. There is no all around correct answer.