SHIF gun

ok i asked this on another thread and i think this thread is more appropriate so... the only fire arms i own are a enfield musketoon and a colt navy (ya, civil war reenactor) but it is far past time to get a firearm. i would like a hand gun and a long arm. i'd like to hear ya'lls ideas. i'm leaning towards an AR because i think it will be easier for me to adjust to. but i'm open to any ideas. already had M1a suggested and i can see the value to owning a weapon that can reach out a touch a zombie. but living in suburbia long range might not be an issue. what you all think?

 

In your previous post you stated that you are not a big guy and you also don't want to spend a lot of $$$. Considering those two things, I would lean more towards the AK or the Mini-14. Finding an AR under $700 can be difficult, and an M1A is closer to $1,000 if not more. The AKs and Mini-14's are lighter weapons, and have detachable magazines of the 20 rd. or 30 rd. variety. 5.56/.223 and 7.62x39 is still fairly cheap compared to a lot of ammunition. You can buy a used mini-14 for around $375-400, and the AK's start at around $250+. If that is high, then you could also look at the SKS which uses the same 7.62x39 cartridge and can be found for $150. If you wanted something with more range then I would look at the M1 Garand in .'30-06. It is heavy and does not have a detachable magazine, but it is battle proven and you can pick them up reasonably through the Civilian Marksmanship program.

If you have the opportunity shoot a few different models, it should help with your decision. Whatever you decide, good luck with your purchase.

 

thanks E.L. i'll assume the propaganda about the AK isn't as bad as the Goberment(did i get that right?) tells me. if it is so bad why do so many countries have then (other than being cheap) if i get the chance i'll pick one up and try it out.

ps can you tell me more about the mini14 i have seen one but thats about it. it reminds me of the carbine from WWII the paratroopers dropped in with on D-day... am i on the right path?

 

O! and is there any other down sides to the AR other that price? i know the AK's are rugged as hell

 

I personally love my AR, although I'm going to go to a shorter bbl carbine soon. There is some question as to the stopping power of the round but it'll still ruin somebody's day and accuracy out to 300 yards is a piece of cake, even with the shorter barrel. As long as you don't drag it through the mud and sand too much between cleanings, they are very reliable.

The "paratrooper" carbine you mentioned from ww2 is the M1 Carbine. http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_aom110_f.html

The 30 carbine round has drawn even more criticism than the 223 for it's stopping power, but they are awesome little guns. Lightweight with no real recoil, fairly inexpensive and a ball to shoot. And they'll still punch through kevlar.

 

Anytime. You should visit with our resident AK expert, Magnus. He is the "AK Guru" of the board. If you will do a search on the board you will come across the test that Magnus did on an AK where he drug it down the road a mile or so, then shot it with no problems. Here it is http://survivalmonkey.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1907 For some reason or another the pics are not showing up. The AK's are great, I really like mine. They are cheap, mags are still fairly cheap $15 or so, the 7.62x39 packs a nice punch, but without much recoil. An AK will function in environments nothing else will. In the words of Magnus "you don't have to clean your AK, it is low maint." The mini-14 is a nice carbine, but the long range accuracy is not the best. Neither is an AK's, but I am not shooting ground hogs at 800 yards with them either. That is not their purpose. I would start off with an AK, I really like mine. I know it will go "BOOM" every time I pull the trigger. It is a lot of fun to shoot. Besides, buying one goes a long way towards p*ssing off a liberal.

 

the above mentioned "awesome little gun" is that the M1 carbine or Mini14?

i like the look of the AR, probably from my use of the M16. but $$$ might put it out of my reach(for now) i have ben told the AK is rugged but not as accurate, is this true?

 

E.L. BlackJack thanks, i guess right now with low funds and the need for a weapon to fill many rolls the AK sounds like my best bet.

 

I believe the "awesome little gun" that he is referring to is the M1 Carbine. The AK is very rugged, and as accurage as I can see to shoot it without optics. A while back while testing a build Magnus and I were able to get two three shot groups of an inch to an inch and a quarter at 50 yards, that's about as good as I am going to do without optics. That was with a 10-12 mph wind, a chair that was too short, and using a coat for a benchrest. It will hit what you want it to.

 

If I could only have one rifle I would take my SKS, no doubt about it. Andy, an AK would be great (as a friend of mine once said: "When you absolutely, positively have got to kill every mother*****r in the room, the AK-47 is the gun for you."), but if money is tight as you say an SKS can be had cheaply and they shoot straight and are reliable as hell.

 

good enough for me seeing as anything i think i might run in to won't be too far out and the toughness will pay off in the long run...

thanks

 

ok is that bolt opperated GallowGlass?

 

Semiauto. You can buy magazines of thirty rounds, but I have always used 10 round stripper clips and they work great, fit faster in the magazine and don't clank so badly if you have two or more of them in your pack.

I have noticed that the price of 7.62x39 has risen lately, but is still inexpensive when compared to other calibres. Since this is same cartridge the AK uses I have to wonder if there's some reason that the price is going up.

 

Andy, I should summarize the major points.

AR15 - Great, very accurate but expensive.

M1 Carbine - Most fun imho, great for history buffs like me. Not as expensive.

AK - Rugged as heck, cheap, a little more power than the others.

SKS - Dirt cheap, same ammo as AK (7.62x39), some have issue with stripper clips.


If your looking for an all around utility/shtf weapon at a low price, I really don't think anyone here would disagree with the AK. It would be my choice as well given the cost limitation.

 

i think i like the idea of AK/SKS combo, for starters at least.

thanks for all your help guys, now to start saving up for the "home defence anti-zombie security system" savings account

 

AK's get a bad rap, because they try to compare accuracy with an AR. The one I had went boom when I pulled the trigger, but after about 30 rounds the pattern expanded considerably. With my aging eyes, I need all the help I can get, (plus I wanted an AR) so I bought an AR.

The AK is darn near impossible to jam or FTF. If you are looking for a Homeland Security rifle that "makes a distinctive sound", and AK will do you just fine. If you are a smaller framed person, you may be very happy with it, I am 6', 250 lbs with a 35" sleeve, and I found the factory stock to be a little short for me. I also had a Romy AK, that I have now heard that they are the least accurate of the AK line. I would IM Magnus for tips on what to look for, and where to start.

I like the AR, it has a lot of aftermarket versatility, and common round, and is more accurate than I am. At this point, I am pretty much locked into buggin' in, so the cleaning issue is not a problem for me. I am standardizing my armory into very few calibers, and platforms. I have AR's for my Homeland Security rifle, 10/22's, 1911's for my sons and me, Glock 19's for my wife and girls, and 870 shotguns.

The first rule of any gun fight is to have a gun. Find one you like, practice with it, and start to build your cache. The AK is a good gun, I would by as many mags as possible whatever your choice, as I can see them disappearing in the very near future.

 

thanks gillman i'll keep that in mind. i feel a bit behind in the game when it comes to being prepared. so i know i have some catching up to do. but now is as good as any time to start.

other than iraq why do see mags disappearing?

 

Start out slow, almost everyone does. A few extra cans of beans, corn, etc. each week really adds up.

There is a lot of panic buying going on right now, especially in regards to magazines. A second assault weapons ban has been proposed by Rep. McCarthy (NY) and with the campus rampage last week many thought it would gain some momentum. That is why so many are stocking up on what they can, they are afraid of another AW Ban. I can't say much, as I have done some panic buying myself, but when I could get a decent price. I really don't think the new AW ban has a chance in hell though.