Russia/War May Be In Play

We have become a national whips indoctrinated in government schools with oh why can't we all get along and when we can't it's oh what have we done to offend you it must be our fault. The fact is the human race has never gotten along and to keep it in check a strong nation (power) is what kept it in check, Trump under stood this-he went against the grain and core beliefs of these wimps in power, in the media and brainwashed masses. Thank god he could take the heat hope he can in 2024

 

Again, Germany is for appeasement, and it truly appears Germany has been completely bought, while the rest of NATO sees the real danger so, Putin has already won because NATO is split.

@CraftyMofo "Bottom line is that Russia doesn’t want NATO on their border. I don’t think that’s a big concession."
Sorry, I don't understand this....so you are saying that the Baltic countries and Poland should leave NATO? I need to point out the obvious, that they are in NATO for one reason - as protection against an aggressive Russia. Without NATO they are in not much better shape than the Ukraine and would be an easy target for Russia aggression. United they have chance, a good chance, separate - none - which is why the Ukraine is desperate to meet the judicial and economic requirements to join NATO.

I would suggest that if Russia was less aggressive that these countries would not need to join NATO... I would also say that giving anything up to demands by force is wrong and leads to nothing more than more demands. History proves this time and again. I would also point out, that the Ukraine gave up all their nuclear weapons (they were #3 in the world) after the Soviet Union fell because specific countries (the UK was one not sure of others) promised to protect them...which has not happened.

As far as supporting Ukraine with troops, personally I am of two opinions. We seem to be the World's Police and quite frankly I am sick of it and there is no good reason to spill American blood in/for the Ukraine; except to ensure the little country has freedom of choice to form its future how it wants. Freedom, it's that simple. I am not an advocate for troops, but I am not against it either. Why? Because it is what America is supposed to stand for. We use our huge resources to help the little guy, stand for freedom against aggressors. So, in my book, it's the decent thing and the right thing to do; however, Americans have been used so badly in the past that it is understandable their reluctance and bitter resentment to assist the Ukraine. So, I get it but I believe it is indeed the right thing to do. And, if we can't see our way to support freedom then we need to change our national policy and basically shut our big mouths. We either support freedom or shut up.

 

To often in the past we (USA) has gotten involved and taken over the fight when the people we were supporting didn't give their 100% support for their own freedom the-- willingness to die for that freedom.
South Vietnam, Afghanistan comes to mind. Add to that our government pussies put in place absurd rules of engagement. Stay out of the Ukraine and let Europe handle it if they are concerned

 

Point taken on the Baltic states, did not realize they were in NATO. Poland doesn't share a border with Russia.
This fighting in the Donbas region has been going on since 2014. Why is this suddenly a crisis of such importance today?
The Ukraine has 45 million people, and it's the size of Afghanistan. About 1 in 6 people that live in the Ukraine are Russian.

If Russia did attack Ukraine with the intention of making it a satellite state or part of Russia, the resistance to this would make their Afghanistan experience look like a cakewalk. Meanwhile, across the world, we have China not playing nice with Taiwan. The stakes in the Pacific are so much higher than Europe.

If NATO believes this nine year old conflict is suddenly a fight, let's let the European troops lead it. Don't get me wrong, I am for freedom. It would be great if we could knock over a succession of countries and have them be shining examples of democratic republicanism. I was for it in Iraq. I was for it in Afghanistan. I have a hard time believing that Ukraine will suddenly become whatever ideal we have. Support their military, let them fight for their own freedom. Freedom doesn't come for free. When we handed the previous two countries the ability to be free, they chose to do something else.

 

Appeasement, what could possibly go? wrong

 

"Poland doesn't share a border with Russia."
No, Poland borders Belarus which for all intent and purpose does what Russia says and even now is hosting and positioning Russian combat troops for the coming attack. This is exactly what Putin wants for Ukraine, another vassal state.

"Why is this suddenly a crisis of such importance today?"
Timing is perfect given the new gas line from Russia, a weak American President, a war weary American populous, plus the Ukraine is leaning more and more towards the West and sooner or later will be allowed to join NATO. Also, my personal opinion, is Putin made a mistake in the capturing of Sebastopol area. Currently, there is no land bridge connection to logistically support it and its huge naval base. Everything comes across that 11-mile bridge, even all the water used since the Ukraine turned it off.

"....the resistance to this would make their Afghanistan experience look like a cakewalk"
This of course it possible until you realize who is actually the mastermind behind this invasion. Putin has no intent of allowing this to happen and will hit so hard and fast that we will see a 21st version of blitzkrieg like never seen before. There can be no doubt given the forces he has assemble he is going to blow through the Ukraine before NATO or even the USA can react, it will be a fait accompli, it will be over and decided leaving no options before Biden or NATO can find their backside with both hands. He has the means and the will.

"I have a hard time believing that Ukraine will suddenly become whatever ideal we have."
No, and I agree but that is on us, not Ukraine, for we are wrong if we think in this manner. Instead, we should be supporting them to make their own decisions and judgements, freedom to choose their future, not those instill by an invader nor an ally. They have already shown they wish to follow a path of democracy.

"When we handed the previous two countries the ability to be free, they chose to do something else"
This is what is sad to me because I see Ukraine as having much more potential than those two combined - if given the chance. Since the fall of the SU they have strived to become part of the world community, giving up their nukes, supporting humanitarian efforts in Bosnia and Afghanistan. They are in a horrid economic state due to Soviet rule and Soviet style corruption, but they have made gains and continue to do so. The problem as I see is not the Ukrainians but us. We have been ill led again and again, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan with nothing to show for it. Now, when presented a real cause, a cause that is just for all the right reasons - well - we cannot stomach the thought of it, cannot support it and won't. And, you can be 100% certain Putin knows this very well also.

Anyway, I find this sad because Ukraine will suffer because of the mistakes of our past as we now have nothing left to give and Putin and his invaders will take advantage of it. Iraq and Afghanistan were nothing more than to make some corporations rich. Now, in this defining moment for America, when asked if we support a clear-cut case of freedom, we will answer a flat - no.

 

The people of Ukraine have no love for the Russians-- under Stalins dictatorship millions of Ukraine were murdered under Stalins land collectivization. Hopefully if it comes to war the Ukraines will fight to the death for their freedom

 

Afghanistan all over again as we follow the same playbook starting with the US Embassy. Looks like it's Milley Vanilly time as Biden green lights Russia
U.S. orders embassy staffers' families to leave Ukraine amid Russian military buildup
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/24/us-draws-down-ukraine-embassy-presence-as-war-fears-mount.html
US preparing to approve evacuation from embassy in Ukraine: Sources

Biden gave Russia the green light on Nord Stream II
Biden is giving Russia the green light on Ukraine
What's next, Moscow Joe?
Give back Alaska?
Permanent naval bases in the Chesapeake and San Francisco?

 

Not quite!
Ol Smokin Joe Stalin was Slavic Ukrainian, and he elevated his people above the ethnic Russians in the region! He further built the Ukraine and turned an already burgeoning farming, Mining, and industrial region into the largest and most powerful in all of the Soviet sphere of influence, In some measures, the entire world! Ol Joe was many things ( Often made out to be a monster, many believe rightly so), but to many ( especially Ukrainians) he was a savior, a much beloved leader of the Soviet collective! His war was mainly against separatists, old hold outs from the revolution who needed to be silenced and made too go away, his purges were largely toward those who didn't support the new Soviet way!

 

Well, if they move out the embassy tweebs then it's almost a foregone conclusion of war. Yeah, I wonder how Biden will handle this cause his family has so many financial connections in the Ukraine among other things...

@Ura-Ki "Ol Smokin Joe Stalin was Slavic Ukrainian..."
Think you got him confused with someone else, he was Georgian. He feared the Ukrainians, reason he starved them.

@johnbb "...under Stalin's dictatorship millions of Ukraine were murdered..."
The Holodomor, Stalin's man-made famine of the Ukraine from 1932 to 1933, some say up to ~4 million died of starvation. Knocked the Ukrainians knees to the ground and heads to the dirt for many a year...

 

Your correct, I got my leaders mixed up, it was Nikita Khrushchev I was thinking of, my bad!

 

Incorrect. Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili (Aka Atalin) was born in Georgia, of Georgian parents, so ethnically he was a Georgian by birth.

 

Nikita the shoe thumper was born in Kalinovka, Russia, in the Kursk Oblast, not Ukraine: He did hold political appointments in the Ukraine SSR, in the late 1930s to 1940s. At the time of the Stalinist purges and during WW2.

Nikita was a Russian, not a Ukrainian.

 

If I was Japan and South Korea I'd be damn worried - any salvation is 3 years away - their kids could be learning Mandarin by then ....

Everything that's being done on the NATO side is just game play to change Putin's mind on attacking Ukraine - but - he sees thru the bluff - he's not backing down to some senile half-wit US prez that has already done the "Chamberlin" ....

 

Don't worry. There won't be any of our men and women shooting at the Ruskies.
We will all be trying to figure out:
Why we can't get to Netflix.
How come our ATM cards aren't working.
Why there is no water coming of the tap.
and why the internet and the electricity is going on and off.

We get in a 'Hot' war with mother russia, cyber is going to be the first strike.
The rest won't be televised as the internet is gonna be unavailable.

 

The public gets tired of war pretty quick. Imagine if people can't get to their Facebook!

 

No Fascistbook or twitter will upset the snowflakes, no twinkies will piss them off, but no food on the grocery shelves will get a whole bunch of folks seriously agitated, even more so if there’s no gasoline to play with. Bidumb isn’t smart enough to figure out these things.