Monetary System Collapse Coming Soon!?

Shinmen Takezo · Oct 4, 2009

As far as having PM's over livestock and a garden/greenhouse most of you know where I stand on that. If the price of PM's bottoms out you go without.

PM's are never, ever going to bottom out.
The prices currenlty are being manipulated down--but they will not be able to do this much longer.
They are doing this now because they are now converting all these cash reserves (the very wealthy) into PM's before the percieved value of the fiat currencies implode.
You're thinking is flawed in that you're thinking that FRN's have value.
They have no value other than what some ticker says they have at any moement.
And according to many in the know--we came within 5 hours of these FRN's having zero value last year.
So how could this be?! Zero value?!
It's because they are backed by happy thoughts not substance.

PM's have retained their value for thousands of years.
It is the percieved value of the fiat currencies requried to purchase PM's that changes.
When the dollar was backed by PM's--the value was set and stable.
And there was no inflation. Prices remained stable.
When the PM backing was removed, it was like our money was suddenly casino chips.
Actually they're just box tops now.

But some people cannot or affoard PM's.
Some people refuse to understand "real money."
And therefore they will have nothing to do with them.

And having cattle and livestock is a great idea if you have a place to keep and maintain them.
But like I said... without PM's, after this implosion if you are caught without them, you will be just a poor dirt farmer or drifter/barterer among milliions of them doing the same thing.
You won't be able to pay your property taxes with chickens.
You won't be able to purchase seed with can goods.
If you need a new truck, I doubt if someone will trade a side of beef for it.

There will be "the other side" of this money implosion.
I think it will involve DC disbandment, secession and new currencies.
The dollar will be as valuable as Confederate money.

If you don't have PM's you will be very, very poor.

ST

Tango3 · Oct 4, 2009

Shinmen Takezo said: ↑

As far as having PM's over livestock and a garden/greenhouse most of you know where I stand on that. If the price of PM's bottoms out you go without.

PM's are never, ever going to bottom out.
The prices currenlty are being manipulated down--but they will not be able to do this much longer.
They are doing this now because they are now converting all these cash reserves (the very wealthy) into PM's before the percieved value of the fiat currencies implode.
You're thinking is flawed in that you're thinking that FRN's have value.
They have no value other than what some ticker says they have at any moement.
Sorry:Again I ask " if we really go through the wringer and the world economy implodes,If the government doesn't get caught with its pants down over no gold in us gold reserves ("Fort knox") and confiscates it from citizens; if you live to emerge "on the other side" Who will accept your metal at a value you desire because of what you have in it??? I submit Gold has no intrinsic value in a collapse! it's the same confidence game as frns!.
Any major currency "adjustment" is gonna be controlled in favor of the big dogs who screwed us this time around. you will not have any say over how valuable your pm's are.I personaly won't trade you one can of hormel chili with beans.

And according to many in the know--we came within 5 hours of these FRN's having zero value last year.
So how could this be?! Zero value?!
It's because they are backed by happy thoughts not substance.

PM's have retained their value for thousands of years.
It is the percieved value of the fiat currencies requried to purchase PM's that changes.
Rant all you want it is the same "percieved value" of pm's,
When the dollar was backed by PM's--the value was set and stable.
And there was no inflation. Prices remained stable.
When the PM backing was removed, it was like our money was suddenly casino chips.
Actually they're just box tops now.

But some people cannot or affoard PM's.
Some people refuse to understand "real money."
And therefore they will have nothing to do with them.

And having cattle and livestock is a great idea if you have a place to keep and maintain them.
But like I said... without PM's, after this implosion if you are caught without them, you will be just a poor dirt farmer or drifter/barterer among milliions of them doing the same thing.
You won't be able to pay your property taxes with chickens.
You won't be able to purchase seed with can goods.
If you need a new truck, I doubt if someone will trade a side of beef for it.

There will be "the other side" of this money implosion.
I think it will involve DC disbandment, secession and new currencies.
The dollar will be as valuable as Confederate money.

If you don't have PM's you will be very, very poor.

ST
Click to expand...

Tango3 · Oct 4, 2009

Okay enough , this has reached the point of ridiculous:
I have to concede you may have some validity to your message if only because Practically even in complete world wide implosion there will be enough people about who will harbor the view:" Gold!!=$$$$" to setup your own gold mkts even amongst yourselves.

My resistance stems from the transparent conflict of interest.
Pm stuff is like a freakin' religion. if I concede and join the pm market; increased demand raises the price for you preachers. Then I become another member of the pyramid trying to convert others..to in turn raise the price.
I will concede:
Gold clearly has as much value as people subjectively apply to it. No more graphs or dire predictions will change that.

I'm going to sams club for a few more pantry items.
Gotta wonder if the dollar is worth zero, whats the gov gonnause to pay its tax collectors????

ozarkgoatman · Oct 4, 2009

Shinmen Takezo said: ↑

PM's are never, ever going to bottom out.

The prices of everything goes up and down in cycles. This may be controled as many have said whetter or not it still happens always has and likely always will.

You're thinking is flawed in that you're thinking that FRN's have value.

Gee I don't believe I've ever said that even drunk so where you came up with that I'm not sure.

But like I said... without PM's, after this implosion if you are caught without them, you will be just a poor dirt farmer

Well that may be true but my family will be well fed. As far as having money to pay taxes and such I never said I didn't think PM's were not a good idea. But I would take a good farm over them if I had to chose one over the other. I can grow more food to trade you for your PM's can you grow more PM's to trade me for my food????

OGM
Click to expand...

Tango3 · Oct 4, 2009

I know "sheite"... 10 or20%of savings in hard metals in the home safe is probably a reasonable idea. 10oz boullion ($1000+ /oz) being way more than I want to spend toward anything without two wheels and a tach.

shadetech · Oct 4, 2009

This thread is good. If we had only stayed away of a central bank most of what is happenning wouldn't be. The goverment would not be able to be nearly as big and there would be no where nearly as large a need for the taxes we pay, which only pays a portion of the interest on the money we have te Fed print to support a larger and larger goverment.

But I will preach no longer to the choir and only give you a comic reprieve on a dark subject. True but ..........

Be sure to read all the way to the end!
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries, then
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he hollers,
Tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.

Put these words
upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on"><st1laceName w:st="on">Telephone</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">State</st1laceType></st1lace> and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

What the hell happened? Can you spell 'politicians'?

And... I still have to 'press 1' for English.

Mountainman · Oct 5, 2009

PM's are only worth something before and after SHTF. Do you think I would give you anything for gold if it means giving something up to help my survival during this time. Yes, if you have enough money to buy all that you need for SHTF and then invest in PM's for when it's over, that is great, most of us don't. PM's will not be worth a shit during SHTF, so how long will it last and can you wait/live that long???

Tango3 · Oct 5, 2009

There's a pretty concise closing argument, as mine hit the wall...

Al Bundy · Oct 5, 2009

Actually Shadetech, we had excise tax back in the day of president <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSRJIFF%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSRJIFF%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSRJIFF%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style>[FONT=&quot]Hamilton.

ST the FRN $1.00 is worth less then nothing because it was created by debt and then taxed.

[/FONT]Mountainman, I'm rollin the dice that a SHTF scenario wouldn't last much longer 3 mo. So I have PM's too.

Mountainman · Oct 5, 2009

Al Bundy said: ↑

Mountainman, I'm rollin the dice that a SHTF scenario wouldn't last much longer 3 mo. So I have PM's too.
Click to expand...

I hope you are right, but I always plan for the worst and hope for the best. I have most of the supplies I will need but would still like to build a couple more solar electric set ups before buying PM's, that is if there is any money left over???

Tango3 · Oct 5, 2009

Al Bundy said: ↑

Actually Shadetech, we had excise tax back in the day of president Hamilton.

ST the FRN $1.00 is worth less then nothing because it was created by debt and then taxed.

Mountainman, I'm rollin the dice that a SHTF scenario wouldn't last much longer 3 mo. So I have PM's too.

Just for other points of view; what do you(al bundy ) see in that scenario? slow burn up to large economic event(say complete collapse of the dollar)?
Then What do you imagine those those 3months look like??
Finally who/what emerges on the the other side?
I'm really interested to hear some opinions otherthan the blogs I've been reading...
Click to expand...

ghrit · Oct 5, 2009

Shinmen Takezo said: ↑

PM's are never, ever going to bottom out.
There will be a low, way lower than you think. Yes, the demand will be there so long as everyone has all other stuff needed. PMs remain for the already wealthy that are in position to weather the storm that may or may not be headed right at our coast. But no matter how much they have, it will be used to fill their teeth since they can't brush with it. And my dentist will fill a tooth for a butchered chicken.
The prices currenlty are being manipulated down--but they will not be able to do this much longer.
And so, why is gold up 13 since Saturday?
They are doing this now because they are now converting all these cash reserves (the very wealthy) into PM's before the percieved value of the fiat currencies implode.
NB - That perceived value of the fiat currency is heavily influencing the price of the metals. Check that as a deflator for your dependence on metals. The "value" of pms has not gone up at all that I can see, it is just the price in inflated currency.
You're thinking is flawed in that you're thinking that FRN's have value.
They have no value other than what some ticker says they have at any moement.
Which says the ticker on pm prices is also lying, which I doubt. TPTB have not yet manipulated that yet.
And according to many in the know--we came within 5 hours of these FRN's having zero value last year.
We need a citation for that. I cannot take it at face value, it has to come from a credible source beyond the bloggers ravings.
So how could this be?! Zero value?!
It's because they are backed by happy thoughts not substance.
That would seem to be true enough. Backed by the "full faith and confidence of dot gov." I don't have a lot of faith these days.

PM's have retained their value for thousands of years.
NB - Only for those that were relatively wealthy and could own it. Usually, I might add, gold (in particular) was a luxury item beyond the means of regular folks.
It is the percieved value of the fiat currencies requried to purchase PM's that changes.
The metal itself is not immune from the laws of supply and demand. So there are two forces acting on pms, inflation and demand. You see where that takes price? Did I have to guess, demand is way off for personal ownership, can't say the same for industrial demand since the price continues up. I did NOT say value, I said price.
When the dollar was backed by PM's--the value was set and stable.
And there was no inflation. Prices remained stable.
Except that the quantity of gold varied upon mining and other acquisitions. When milady bought a necklace from a jeweler (who imported the raw metal to work with) the amount of metal in use changed. An extremely small amount, but it changed anyway. Multiply that with increasing gold hoards resulting from exchange for industrial output, and you an also see the increase in value of a fixed price currency. What was stable was the exchange rate, not the value.
When the PM backing was removed, it was like our money was suddenly casino chips.
Actually they're just box tops now.

But some people cannot or affoard PM's.
How true.
Some people refuse to understand "real money."
And therefore they will have nothing to do with them.
"Real money" is in quotes for a reason, I suppose? Money is a medium of exchange, nothing more, nothing less. It simple allows a means of exchanging value for value without a directly measurable equality.
And having cattle and livestock is a great idea if you have a place to keep and maintain them.
"Remote locations are cheap insurance." But you knew that. The folks living in cities are going to suffer badly if TSHTF as the doomers predict.
But like I said... without PM's, after this implosion if you are caught without them, you will be just a poor dirt farmer or drifter/barterer among milliions of them doing the same thing.
Certainly, if you are caught without resource, you'll be in dire straights. Don't think for a minute that pms are the only resource worth having.
You won't be able to pay your property taxes with chickens.
Not so sure about that, the tax collector will also need to eat.
You won't be able to purchase seed with can goods.
If you need a new truck, I doubt if someone will trade a side of beef for it.
Depends how hungry they are. The essence of barter is need vs. have for trading.

There will be "the other side" of this money implosion.
I think it will involve DC disbandment, secession and new currencies.
The dollar will be as valuable as Confederate money.
Right now, I'd take a few Confederate dollars in exchange for something I might have. Always, there will be someone to trade with.

If you don't have PM's you will be very, very poor.
Been there, done that, have the tee. Wear it regularly..

ST
Click to expand...

Weak arguments at best for possessing metals. Put your money in durable goods that will not be available for love nor money in the dark times.

Al Bundy · Oct 5, 2009

Tango3 said: ↑

Just for other points of view; what do you(al bundy ) see in that scenario? slow burn up to large economic event(say complete collapse of the dollar)?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't know. Collapse of the Dollar is likely, when is anybody's guess. When it does I hope it happens rather quickly. The sooner is starts the faster we will be able to save what few assets the country has left.

There is also a very real possibility of nuclear explosions on our soil. That would get ugly quick as the US simply is not prepared for anything on that level.

Then What do you imagine those those 3months look like??
Finally who/what emerges on the the other side?
Click to expand...

Hunger and thirst to be assured(Vegas desert). A very real possibility of having to shoot some hungry person fending for THEIR family. God help me as I do not want to have kill someone else for doing what I would be doing if I wasn't at least a little prepared.

I'm hoping that once the fear and riots subside that everyone can work together(minus the Fed and big banks) as a community. If history is a gauge then the states and the populace will unite and work as a team rebuilding our country. Look at what happened after Pearl Harbor or 911.

I'm not a great writer of stories, but I have read a lot of the doom a gloom reports. I don't think I can buy into some of them.

The metal I buy the most is silver because it's undervalued right now and it has industrial uses which may make it more valuable in the future.

Shinmen Takezo · Oct 5, 2009

Weak arguments at best for possessing metals. Put your money in durable goods that will not be available for love nor money in the dark times

You really, absolutely don't get it at all do you.
Your arguments aren't just weak--they are one dimensional.
They are childish.

So by your logic the history of the last 5000 years is completely wrong.
Gold and silver did not hold their value when the Roman Empire, and other empires collapsed.
The Jews whenever and where ever the fled sewed canned goods and bags of beans into their clothes to hide them... not gold and silver.
When the Barbarians sacked Rome, they were looking for BOB's, sacks of rice and swords... not gold.
And when the Weimar Republic was at the height of their hyperinflationary phase, people with gold and silver coins of any type could not purchase food or impliments.
This also should ring true in Zimbabwe right now--where their money has completely collapsed... and people in the bush have to pan for gold to purchase food stuffs.
Also this should hold true for Iceland which collapsed last year--and people there who had gold and silver did not get crushed when the money was devalued 75%.

Yeah, if an asteriod were to hit the earth and there was a "Road" scenario like the movie... gold and silver would have little meaning. But this is sci-fi, this is not likely to happen. A "Road Warrior" scenario is a very remote possibility.

But it is not going to be like this in the USA.
Look to Zimbabwe and Mexico and you'll get a preview on how it will shake out here.
A lot of people here will have to have elaborate security measure to secure their stash of "stuff."
Many of you will most likely loose all of your "stuff."
Stuff is not liquid. Stuff is hard to transport and secure.

But you will need "some stuff" to tide you through.
There are fantasy people who think they are going to go back to the Amish style days, and live off the land and thier cattle and flocks.
This is fantasy for most people.
Only a very, very select few will be able to do this.
And to do this you will need it all in place right now--this day.
There will be no playing catch up.

But PM's are for the people who want to come out the other side preserving what they worked for all their lives. And people like this will not be scratching in the dirt for the rest of their lives. PM's are liquid, transportable, easy to hide, and they always retain their value.

This guy above is a one dimensional thinker with not a thought about "the other side" of SHTF.

ST

Shinmen Takezo · Oct 5, 2009

And talking about SHTF.
This is just out on Matt Drudge's site....

ARAB STATES LAUNCH SECRET MOVES WITH CHINA, RUSSIA, FRANCE TO STOP USING DOLLAR FOR OIL TRADING... DEVELOPING...

No story yet.
He is still writing it.

But by the headline--this is the opening phase of the collapse.
This is where all your money starts to become worthless.

Ask yourself why this headline is appearing now.
It's because these countries know full well that a currency collapse is immenent.

I'll post the Drudge story when it comes up.

ST

Shinmen Takezo · Oct 5, 2009

The demise of the dollar

In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab states have launched secret moves with China, Russia and France to stop using the US currency for oil trading.

By Robert Fisk
Tuesday, 6 October 2009

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.
The Americans, who are aware the meetings have taken place – although they have not discovered the details – are sure to fight this international cabal which will include hitherto loyal allies Japan and the Gulf Arabs. Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East. "Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."

This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil – yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy. China uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient. The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.

The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick. "One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," he said in Istanbul ahead of meetings this week of the IMF and World Bank. But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.

Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.

China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.

Furthermore, Chinese exports to the region now account for no fewer than 10 per cent of the imports of every country in the Middle East, including a huge range of products from cars to weapon systems, food, clothes, even dolls. In a clear sign of China's growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China's reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.

Ever since the Bretton Woods agreements – the accords after the Second World War which bequeathed the architecture for the modern international financial system – America's trading partners have been left to cope with the impact of Washington's control and, in more recent years, the hegemony of the dollar as the dominant global reserve currency.

The Chinese believe, for example, that the Americans persuaded Britain to stay out of the euro in order to prevent an earlier move away from the dollar. But Chinese banking sources say their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now. "The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told The Independent. "The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."

Chinese financial sources believe President Barack Obama is too busy fixing the US economy to concentrate on the extraordinary implications of the transition from the dollar in nine years' time. The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018.

The US discussed the trend briefly at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh; the Chinese Central Bank governor and other officials have been worrying aloud about the dollar for years. Their problem is that much of their national wealth is tied up in dollar assets.

"These plans will change the face of international financial transactions," one Chinese banker said. "America and Britain must be very worried. You will know how worried by the thunder of denials this news will generate."
Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.

Tango3 · Oct 5, 2009

Mean rant deleted.

whatever makes you feel safe..

we all have our own point of view and financial capabilities.

I'm done here.

ghrit · Oct 5, 2009

Shinmen Takezo said: ↑

Weak arguments at best for possessing metals. Put your money in durable goods that will not be available for love nor money in the dark times

You really, absolutely don't get it at all do you.
Your arguments aren't just weak--they are one dimensional.
They are childish.
-------------------------------------------
This guy above is a one dimensional thinker with not a thought about "the other side" of SHTF.

ST
Click to expand...

And you, sir, have exposed your belly in single dimensional thought as well. Slavish dedication to metal as the only one way out is fatal. Think beyond the fascination with shiny metals when you come out of your city to the compound and throw some "over the fence" so to say, in the hopes that someone inside will throw some corn back. Might not be corn. Might be nothing, and either way, your pack will be lighter on the rest of your journey. You are, of course, free to go your own way in accumulation of whatever you think will help you when the bottom falls out. I'll not castigate you for your choices, that isn't my way. You would do well to consider the same courtesy.

Anyway, I'm not trading in my washing machine for a third of a Troy ounce of gold. At least my skivvies will be clean while you are wiping with gold foils.

Tango3 · Oct 5, 2009

ghrit said: ↑

And you, sir, have exposed your belly in single dimensional thought as well. Slavish dedication to metal as the only one way out is fatal. Think beyond the fascination with shiny metals when you come out of your city to the compound and throw some "over the fence" so to say, in the hopes that someone inside will throw some corn back. Might not be corn. Might be nothing, and either way, your pack will be lighter on the rest of your journey. You are, of course, free to go your own way in accumulation of whatever you think will help you when the bottom falls out. I'll not castigate you for your choices, that isn't my way. You would do well to consider the same courtesy.

Anyway, I'm not trading in my washing machine for a third of a Troy ounce of gold. At least my skivvies will be clean while you are wiping with gold foils.
Click to expand...

can't resist: this post:

Re: planning for TSHTF « Reply #3 on: December 21, 2006, 12:31:29 PM
Set up your network and use it. That means everyday life I remember trade and barter was a constant thing around the lumber oriented town I grew up in. My family had a farm and we grew X-mas trees for the cash crop for the "extras" or manufacured necessities. The rest we either grew, or bartered for if we could not provide it ourselves. We did not have a hay baler, but our field generally produced a 10 ton overage from what we needed for our "table" herd. We also needed milk- no milk cow. the folks with the hay baler had horses and needed 4 tons, so there is a trade. The dairy farm 8 miles down the road could use the other 6 tons. We got the stuff baled, and delivered it. In return our milk was delivered 2 gallons a week by the diary farm kids, mom waited with us for the school bus on mon. and thurs.to take the milk up to the house. The school bus driver liked cucumbers but lived in an apartment in town........

The bus driver was an old vetran who was missing 3 fingers on his left hand and had some scars from the same incident. Everyone tended to give him a lot of respect. The bus company paid him barely enough for rent and electricity, but he had the "farm kid" route, so he ate well. I learned that people with nasty scars are not scary and evil, but regular folks who got "bitten by life" and how a community makes things work and not necessarily by paying money.

reading the last few posts kind of brought all that to mind. Money is good, but goodwill and a sense of making things work out are what really is worthwhile.

from: http://www.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=11881.0

Shinmen Takezo · Oct 6, 2009

And you, sir, have exposed your belly in single dimensional thought as well. Slavish dedication to metal as the only one way out is fatal.

Don't get me wrong.
I do not have a slavish devotion to PM's.
I also have stuff, guns, ammo and so on.
And I also know there will be "the other side" of this financial SHTF that is soon to come.
It will not all break down to Road Warrior like James Rawles is proposing.
Not unless there is an outright nuclear war that is.
But there will be rough times.

If you have dough--preserve it.
You will also need stuff to see you through SHTF.
But once you are on the other side, a bag of rice or a box of 9mm is not going to put a tank of gas in your car.

But some people don't have anything to preserve, so this point is moot.
They will be living off the land and hoping to scratch up cash of whatever form of currency that develops in the new system that arises.
And that new system won't be exchanging eggs or ears of corn for hard goods.
During SHTF--yes it will be this, but not on the other side.

So if you have some cash--get some PM's before they are not available anymore.
If you don't have cash--don't waste your money on them, just get stuff to fill your basic survival needs.

But for me and mine, I am not coming out on the other end of this soon to unfold crisis like the Jode family from "The Grapes Of Wrath."

I will be able to pick up where I left off.

Some people have lots of money sitting in 401k's, IRA's, and so on.
All of this will evaporate and go poof pretty soon.
Wouldn't it be nice to preserve some of what you broke a sweat for?

And contrary to what some have postulated here--PM's have never, ever lost their value, not matter what the crisis... war, natural disasters, social upheaveal, economic collapse, etc. Even in the worst of the worst times, even in the most diabolical conditions (like WWII Europe) PM's saved many peoples lives and fortunes during that SHTF event.

So if you have to pick up and flee for your life on short notice--what are you going to haul? 1000 pounds of rice, guns, ammo, canned goods and stuff, or grab 100 ounces of gold or silver?

ST

And anyways, this thread got off the track of economic collapse that is unfolding. The last post I made is very significant in that it is now revealed that the Arab countries and others are secretely agreeing to drop the US dollar completely. This story just broke on Matt Drudge, read it again...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html

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