How accurate do you think a 94AE 30-30 can be

I stumbled across the ballistic coefficient for the winchester 150gr 30-30 bullet. It's 0.186 so it's just dumping velocity as it goes down range.

 

I was looking at fired brass from my gun today, compared it to freshly sized brass.
It looks like the shoulder is further forward on the fired brass.
If I'm seeing it with my eyeballs, then it's probably moving at least 0.02 or 0.03.
That's bad for case life, accuracy and means I'm missing out on case capacity, not that I need to fill the case all the way.
All the brass I have is either fully sized or just been fired in my gun. There shouldn't be any strange brass hanging around anywhere, as I did have some range pickup brass.
So I'm going to treat the 30-30 like a rimless bottle neck and try to set the die to not move the shoulder back as far. Or get a neck sizer die.
F'ed up head spacing would explain some of the horrible accuracy.

 

So, what is the latest with your reloading experiments?

I have been thinking of making some cast bullet reloads . Maybe even paper patch them.

Have you tried neck sizing only amd trimming to length? My only reloading experience with the .30-30 was with a hammer operated Lee Loader, and I was getting about 12" groups at 100 yds. Nothing to brag about for sure.
jim

 

I haven't really messed with it.
I ordered 160gr FTX 30-30 bullets when I saw them for sale and on sale so I went from having about 140 at the start of this year to 640 or 740 of them now.
Still have tons of large rifle primers.
I did get a neck sizer bushing die.
Got an rcbs neck turning rig for my 20 year old rcbs trimmer, turned about 70 cases, broke it, got the KTM neck turner. Haven't messed with the KTM yet.
Next step will be load up some rounds with 160 ftx bullets packed with 33.5gr 34gr and 34.5gr of leverevolution in cases with turned necks.
Then neck size only the tuned neck cases and repeat.

 

I read on the Marlin forum that IMR3031 is very popular and is even used for cast bullet loads. Have not tried any of it myself though

jim

 

Imr3130 may be al little hot for cast lead.
Maybe try something almost too fast burning for 30-30, like reloader No 7.
I know there's RE7 loads for 30-30 for 100, 110 and maybe 130gr bullets, it should be pretty easy to develop a RE7 load for say 150 to 190 gr bullets.
If you load 30-30 to full imr3130 power levels, even the start load will lead the crap out of the barrel. Then further reducing the imr3130 charge will produce erratic velocities and all over the place accuracy.

Because I live in new mexico I have to make my 30-30 longer range capable. The 20 to 70 yard deer hunting shots that are common on the east coast and deep south just don't happen very often here. So if I can't take a 250 yard shot at a deer I might as well make that rifle a display peice.

 

At one point, the old Unique charge of 7.5 gr. would give one about 1200 fps with a cast slug. I seem to remember that paper patching the slug can allow velocities in the 2000. fps+ range for this caliber. All this is above my skill level but as always, I try to learn.

jim

 

My 30-30 range Boogaloo pile has a bunch of 123 or 124gr bullets loaded with 7gr of unique.
From what I have seen in old reloading manuals 7gr of unique for that bullet is more like the start load.

 

I'm pretty much out of 6.5mm "hunting bullets" to test and I'm not paying gouge prices, I can wait till they are instock and on sale. Lately all I can find is 6.5mm match bullets. So probably go back to the 30-30, I have accumulated a stupid amount of 160gr FTX bullets. Easily enough to find "the load", find the ideal seating depth if there is such a thing, play with case neck turning see if that's worth it, load 14 years worth of fired cases, blow out all the random reloads I have accumulated, reload those cases into 160gr FTX ammo too.

 

I did shot off the 160gr FTX with 35gr, 36 and 37gr leverevolution a while back. Same S&B primer and everything else.
Fired off the 35gr the same as all the others, it made an almost 3 inch wide 1.5 inch tall group at 50 yards with the open sights.
Then I used the 36gr loads to get the scope back on paper.
The 37gr loads with the scope made a 1 inch group and two 1.5 inch groups. The 37gr loads made the barrel nice and hot after 2 shots. The recoil and barrel heating was unnecessary.
I do not recommend 37gr.
Yeah everything else sucked compared to the 34gr test.

 

Oilpan, were those 3 shot groups or 5 shot groups?
I’d consider 1 inch groups, or 1.5 inch groups pretty promising at 50 yards with a 30-30. That means 2-3 inches at 100 yards, 4-6 inches at 200 yards.
I’d consider trying 36.5, 37 and 37.5 again to see if you’d catch that magical combination.

It’s been a while since I played with 30-30, and no longer have my rifle in that caliber. I always thought I was pushing my limit at 150 yards with it, and decided to go a different direction. (Bolt .30-06)

 

I was getting 3 holes touching at 50 yards with open iron using 34gr of leverevolution powder and 160gr FTX bullets on 2 different range trips. Cases trimmed to 2.03 and overall length of 2.55''.

37gr is the max charge and makes the barrel nice and hot aftet 2 shots and gives uncomfortable recoil.
Some where around 34gr is the load.

 

Speer#11 has RE7 data for heavier bullets. You could use a starting load of RE7 under a cast bullet and not get too much leading.

 

I did a little 30-30 testing today.
I only had time to test the 33.5gr load of leverevolution. I blew off most of them getting the scope on paper at 150 yards.
Loaded 9, shot 6 to get it hitting on paper, fire 2 adjust, fire 2 adjust and the 3 for the final group. They were all under 2 inches at 150 yards. There's a good chance 33.5 is the load, but 34gr and 34.5gr need their chance too.
I'm going to say neck turning is pretty much pointless. Sub 2 inch groups at 150 yards is way the hell better than I ever though a 94ae could do with shitty remington brass.
If someone told me their 94ae shot near moa I would have thought they a damn lier.

 

I think you've narrowed it down to 1/10's Like 33.7 next followed by 33.9.
However, the rifle seems to like 33.5, It's telling you something?

 

It does like 160gr FTX bullets and leverevolution powder. All 160gr FTX bullets were at worse equal to the best factory ammo, except for maybe the 37gr loads which were just way too hot.
I'll load up some 33.5 to replace what I shot off and some 33.7gr. It definitely likes that 33.5gr to 34gr range.
So if you have a newer 94ae, get 160gr FTX bullets load them to 2.55'' and pick a load around 34gr it's likely going to be as good or better than your best factory ammo.
I'm going to zero the scope at 150 yards.

 

I replaced the 33.5gr shots I burned up yesterday, loaded up a set of 33.7gr and took the just fired 33.5gr 2x fired cases annealed them with my induction heater and neck sized them with my redding neck bushing die with 0.323 bushing and loaded them with 34gr.
So I'll have 34gr regular, vs 34gr neck turned vs 34gr annealed and neck sized only.
The cases fired with 33.5gr plunked into the chamber and I could pop them out with a feather. They actually got shorter, cases went from 2.029-2.030 to more like 2.025-2.024. So I don't have to trim them.
Hopefully 33.5gr 33.7gr and 34gr all shoot the same so I can just set the powder measure for 33.7gr and check like every 10th one and not have to hand weigh each charge and let them drop +/- 0.05gr.
After I test these 50 shots I'll check them for a good plunk, anneal and neck size the ones that plunk, full length size the ones that feel the slightest bit tight.

 

This may be the most accurate lever action 30-30 of all time. That's a real lever gun with the forearm and magazine tube installed.
I got 400 of those ftx bullets from midway usa dot com for 34 cents each, no limit buy as many as you think is reasonable.
6 months ago they were going for 70 to 80 cents per bullet.

 

Off subject a little my 87 year old uncle has a one off the early production 1964 Winchester model 70 30-06 and he will probably be getting rid of his gun collection what would a fair price be for that model rifle. Like to keep it in the family (he could use the money)