Does a soldier give up the right of free speech?

Excellent postings UGRev. The basis of what you've put forth here is exactly why the government doesn't have the power it seems to think it has. As a government by the people, for the people and of the people, it CANNOT exercise any power that an individual does not himself posses. ie none of us have said power to convey onto the government. The government cannot, by any contract, strip the right of a person that, I or any other, cannot strip from another. In a nutshell, it's as simple as that.

Bravo! You get it. It's all gravy from here.

Byte

 

@UGRev, my statement was made with a touch of humour familiar to most vets, but the kernel of my post is that there must be no show of divisiveness in a unit.In my case as a gator when the boat chief sends you in either as transport or as support of the marines on your boat it has to be done NOW. There can be no wasted time grousing or attempts to subvert those orders.Lives depend on immediate response.That can take a lot of discipline and your private opinions don't rate as crap. Whether my contract was legal or not was of no concern either to myself or my officers and chiefs at that particular moment. Even back in the real world and off the base military personnel are expected to show that cohesiveness and discipline. It has to be that way and I wouldn't change it if I could.

 

Send him packing

Civilian Opinions of the Military if they have not served is just so much hot air in my opinion. We will just have to agree to disagree. I also have a problem with a celibate priest giving marriage counselling advice or child rearing advice.
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The Marine who is the basis of this thread knew fully he was bucking the system and ignored warnings from superiors and chose to continue. In todays environment major cuts are expected soon for the armed forces. If this man worked for me I would advise my senior chain of command to make him a civilian by a no muss no fuss fashion. He could be administratively discharged with a general under honorable conditions for the good of the service in less than 2 weeks. Let him peddle his crap in the civilian community. The Marines do not need him. Why bother?

 

Oh, trust me...I get that. That understanding it's crystal, and I thought I properly conveyed that. But when you subsidize leadership by force, leadership fails as do all things when they are subsidized. You don't gain trust by fear. You gain it through shared experience and love.

 

Cognitive dissonance. That it's this post. I didn't go to war, but I was a cadet. I had commanding officers and I had to follow a chain of command. So I ask again, with great respect, please don't chicken hawk me.

 

I agree I have alot of buddies and several are Marines and they took this almost personal. We talk alot and they might not agree, the only time you ever hear them say something is behind closed doors and with the ones they trust it will never go any further. My thing being a civilan if I didn't have a militery family and friends and know. Things like this affect the militery in a whole as if none of them stand by their commander and chief. It's simular to being a L.E.O. you go out and bash the Sheriff or County commisson you can look for a job. I don't agree with it being public because it looks as if the dept is falling apart. Same with the military it can look to some as if our forces are split. Now as far as venting we all L.E.O. and soldiers do it and have that right but it should be kept in house and between brothers. I think the same would go for any type of business if I ran a business and a man working for me went out bashing me and the business Im going to fire him now I catch him in the break room b!tching Im going to tell him quit whinning and get back to work.

 

Honestly, it takes a lot more than 2 weeks any more. Once lawyers get involved...I had a Marine kid who popped hot for marijuana last year. He confessed to CID, was going to get a Special Court Martial, got offered a pretrial agreement where he would accept NJP and be given a Big Chicken Dinner and get out as soon as he could be processed. His lawyer didn't like the deal because he wanted him to get an Honorable Discharge. The lawyers wrangled for MONTHS. He finally accepted the deal because the command was about to go forward with the SPCM. It took about 6 months to get someone out who popped hot and admitted it.

 

Indeed they may well have changed since I retired in 1994. However at that time the Navy had it down pat. There was almost no way to fight it. The Key Words were Administratively discharged, given a general discharge under honorable conditions, and for the good of the service. To fight it would be difficult as hell, and if they did was most likely to result in a BCD or a DD, and time in a brig or Leavensworth military prison at hard labor. They still had VA benefits in most cases, but were Black Flagged where they damn sure were not getting back into any branch of the Military, and most likely not a chance of any government job either. It was so streamlined it worked best for us.

 

To directly answer the initial question:Does a soldier give up the right of free speech,

the answer is Yes. The UCMJ takes precedence over many aspects that are normally associated with the Bill of Rights, and free speech is one of the casualties.


Right, wrong or indifferent, that's the way it is.

 

Your right to free speech ends with a stand at ease, soldier. It is not a request or demand; it is a legal order.

There isn't any debate on it either. LOL

 

It appears this incident is going to follow right along the lines that I originally stated it would. This Marine will be discharged. It is the easiest way for the Government and the Military to end this. It acts as a deterent to others. He loses his standing as a Active Duty Marine in Protest, and he becomes just another disgruntled citizen (no shortage of those). It protects good order and discipline within the ranks, and frankly with a RIF, reduction in force on the near horizon, the military could give a crap less.
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He made his point, and it was a good one. He got his 15 minutes of fame. That's more than most folks do. IMHO he knew he was across the line with regard to regulations under the UCMJ, and that he would get disciplined for it. As an individual I applaud him. As a service member I think he crapped in his mess tray. It happens, deal with it.
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Here is what appears to be happening now.
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Marine Who Criticized Obama Faces Discharge

March 23, 2012 by Sam Rolley

FACEBOOK​

Sgt. Gary Stein, who started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party, was informed by the Marines that he violated a Pentagon policy barring troops from political activities.​

A Marine sergeant who made online comments vowing to stand up to the Constitution and criticizing President Barack Obama and his policies is facing dismissal from the Corps for his actions.
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According to The Associated Press, Sgt. Gary Stein, who started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party, was informed by the Marines that he violated a Pentagon policy barring troops from political activities.
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The nine-year Marine veteran said he started the page to encourage fellow service members to exercise their free speech rights. Stein was first cautioned by his superiors at Camp Pendleton in 2010, after he launched the Facebook page and criticized Obama’s healthcare overhaul. He volunteered to take down the page while he reviewed the rules at the request of his superiors. Upon determining that he was not in violation of the rules, Stein relaunched the page.
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Last week, in response to a post in which Stein said he would refuse to follow unlawful orders from the President, Stein’s superiors barred him from using social media sites on government computers.
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The Marines say Stein failed to follow Pentagon directives that say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement. Officers also are not allowed to use contemptuous words against senior officials, including the defense secretary or the President.
Stein said in a statement: “The allegations drummed up against me are no more than an agenda by the Marine Corps to use me as an example. I have never spoken on behalf of the Marine Corps or in uniform. I have stayed within guidelines DOD Directive 1344.10 and made sure to. If I am guilty of anything it would be that I am American, a freedom loving Conservative, hell bent on defending the constitution and preserving Americas greatness. I am no more the Leader of the Armed Forces Tea Party than any other of 18,000 members are. I just happen to be normal guy who started a facebook page and who hold the Tea Party values close my heart and believes the Tea Party can enact real change in this county. We are all leaders in the Tea Party!”