Atlatls

I also said there are people who can master such a skill. But a picture is not proof. A video is. Congratulations on mastering this weapon. You one of just a handful who manged to hit an animal with one. Now that said, if the Atlatl was a viable survival tool for the masses?? there would be video after video after video of kill shots and there are not. My statement stands. Like field expedient bows and spears they are not easily mastered and therefore not a good choice for most people. That is all I said , will ever say and stand by. Almost Anyone can take an animal with a gun Very few with an Atlatl . There is no debate on this.

 

When we get to videos of kill shots you start to see the numbers rise with guys like Scott Moore and other traditional archers. There are thousands with modern bow and tens of thousands with rifle. Think about that. You want to bet your life on an Atlatl?? go ahead. Ill bet mine on a modern bow or a rifle.

 

If this was a primitive weapons website and I was a fan I would be shouting it from the roof tops. But this is a survival site and somewhere there is young man who is afraid he wont be able to feed himself if shit hits the fan. Who's advice should he take???? Should he learn to identify edible plants? buy a gun or take years to master an Atlatl?? seriously. What gives him the best chance??

 

Well, this young man took a deer at 7 yards with a bent sapling and a bootlace, and a couple hand shaped arrows. I was @20. Sorry I didn't film it, but I didn't even own a camera then, or even a cell phone. Times change, cameras are everywhere.

 

And Bishop< none of this is personal. I have been ranting against primitive weapons for survival for decades. There just are no numbers to make them viable in a post shtf scenario. Most people would starve to death trying to build one and or hit something with one. Anyone can pick up a rifle and kill a deer. Most people should go that direction. Now ask yourself, If it were all you had to hunt with in a 24/7 365 days a year scenario with game scarce, game wary, from excessive pressure ??? could you feed yourself with one?? I doubt it. You said yourself that the animal turned into the shot. So you got lucky. Nothing taken away. It is a cool accomplishment. I got lucky on a running shot with a compound bow hitting a deer in the ass and cutting the big artery. I could not feed myself with a bow if all I had were running shots. I would lose arrows so fast I would out of arrows in short order and that is getting to the crux of the survival issue I have with people who claim that primitive weapons will work in a shtf scenario. I say to them all the time if it is so easy go do it now. Convince your self now that you are the master of this weapon That is any circumstance it will feed you. The Odds Bishop, The odds are that it wont. A good rifle reaches out 1000 yards 500 yards 200 yards and 10 feet . The more pressure on animals the harder they will be to get close to. So in closing? I enjoy seeing people do exceptional things like taking deer with their bare hands or some primitive weapon. I admire traditional archers.I just do not see primitive weapons as a viable survival tool. Fishing is a different topic all together.. I have proven over and over and over again that people selling this stuff to other via cd's and books are bull shitting people out of their money.

Kellory, If you can feed yourself with bent sapling and boot lace that is awesome. My friend killed one from a tree with a fish spear. Even he would not bet his life on a fish spear to kill deer. He hunts with 30-06 and poached deer with a .22 rifle some 20 years ago. His choice today?? his ruger 10-22 . I JUST ASKED HIM ON THE PHONE IF HE WOULD EVER TRY JUMPING OUT OF TREE ON A DEER AGAIN? HE SAID NOT ON YOUR FRIGGING LIFE.

We talked about his spear kill and he says anyone today can kill a deer with a spear if they are patient , use bait, hunt from a tree and learn to throw a spear without sound. He also agreed with me that he would trap them using heavy wire snares if he had to . Less bait easy kills due to strangling.

 

I did it to see if it could be done. A rifle is by far the better choice, a shotgun is my preferred weapon, but constantly hearing that it isn't possible unless its videotaped is ludicrous. Since I didn't have a scale to measure the bow draw weight, it is possible it could have been an illegal weapon to take a deer, I don't know. But video tape taking a deer with an illegal weapon would be stupid.

 

Kellory, I have never said it isn't possible. Good God man. face palm in a major way. I am saying there is no proof out there. Anywhere, do the search. I am a musky fisherman, part of the greatest group of truth stretchers in the freaking world. Every 46 incher is a 50. know what I mean??? We have a standard in this group. If you catch the world record and release it? you cant say it. Cant claim it , and if you do?? they will crucify you. Verification is necessary when people start selling stuff. I have challenged a hundred guys to show me the truth and verify it and they cant. W e dont have to prove modern bows take deer because its on film thousands of times. Even slow motion pass through shots . NOT ONE Video of a field expedient bow, spear or Atlatl that was not filmed on some girly game ranch. But hey one 7 year old kid killed a deer on film so how hard can it be???? right? I live surrounded by thousands of acres of federal oak forests. My challenge stands you come here and kill a deer with a field expedient weapon of your choice be it spear, Atlatl or bow. Do it in 5 days. Build it, hunt with it and kill . I will film it from day one . Ill make you famous and Ill burn your dvd for free. You can make copies and sell them on the net. I WANT TO SEE IT DONE. Show me the Kill shot , show me the set up, the blood trail and the finish. If a Gradfather and his 7 year old grand kid can do it on a game ranch then an adult should be able to do it in a federal forest.

 

I have a stand placement on private property where I get 10 yard bow shots every year.. I could practice with this weapon(Atlatl) and probably make a kill with one from this stand. The odds are though that I would spook the deer trying to throw and make a bad hit and this really is the crux of the problem. It is hard enough with a good crossbow to make good shots EVERY time . Survival is your life. depending your life on something. Betting the farm, all your apples in one basket, the whole kit and kaboodle, etc. It is not easy today with modern archery equipment. Every step back in time makes it even harder. I rest my case.

 

You do know there are still primitive tribes still feeding themselves with primitive weapons today and that paleo people done it for a long time.

 

If taking game with these weapons did not work, our ancestors would have starved, and there would be no debate...

I have tried REALLY hard to get that footage for you. Built 2 bows, working on a third, as well as other weapons, and the fact of the matter is, I can either shoot footage, or build and hunt with the tool. Add in the limits of the camera to stay rolling, and to get things in shot, and you are really asking for 10 grand easy worth of effort by a team who knows what they are doing...

And I can tell you, it is hard enough to get someone to hang out with you when you mention "primitive" weapons, much less go hunting with you, in a style that is CONDUCIVE to that weapon. Tree stands are not that style...

And you have to take into account that, as mentioned, staying within the limits of property laws and ethical hunting, getting those shots is very difficult, and almost requires immersion, in my experience. Not that the game isn't there, or that the man or tool can't take them, but having your hands full of gardening is going to keep you from taking that shot...

 

You expect to pay my bills while I satisfy your curiosity? You know what medical bills are like, and my wife can't work anymore, so I'm a single income.
I was able to get out once this year due to lack of money and lack of time, I have two deer in the freezer because of it.
I would hope in the 30 years since then I've become a better hunter. More in tune with the woods and the animals not less.
I proved it to myself, and that's the only one I have to satisfy. If you want to try it on your own go right ahead, but I'll give you a hint right now..... the bow itself is dead simple it's the arrows to take work.

 

And finding a bloody tree in your AO that hasn't been eaten by bugs without warning before you get to final tiller...build an atlatl next time. Had that happen without warning on two bows, with no bark damage, or warning before you strike paydirt!

 

I'm so confused, who's on first, what's on third and now it's time to eat.

Y'a;; need to go PM.

 

It's socially relevant! Haha. Critters are tasty.

 

Yes arrows are hard to make. and yes guys , tribes of Indians and such did for years. And it took years of starving and dying to hone those skills we don't have today. Hell even Indians when they had the choice took guns. But the men in those tribes taught the young right from the day they were old enough to pull a string. I could build a wonderful self bow . I am a skilled wood worker.
fishall Look at the lures. I have machines that can build a self bow. I have all the carving tools, rasps etc. IF I thought for even one minute that it would help me in a shtf scenario I would already have a dozen of them. NO, NO ,NO . Don't bring a knife to a gun fight , or a bow , or an Atlatl or a spear . I am going to use the very best I can afford to make my odds of surviving as good as I can. While you carve your primitive weapon Im going to practice with my rifles at 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards and more. I will out shoot you , out live you and out last you. I have two deer in my freezer as well. One came with my crossbow , 12 yard shot, second was a big deer , 30-06 just under 100 yards neither deer were hard to find. I watched the big one go down 20 yards from where I shot her. The crossbow shot deer went 35 yards . Both hunts took less than two hours. Now granted both of those hunts were on private property and property I have hunted for years and years. My land around me here?? I don't hunt it . I am building my herd here with fruit trees and bait stations and food plots. Teaching them to come here for food. Planning for the future. These huge wood lands around me are hunted pretty hard as they are public land. I can walk for miles and for days and never even see a deer. see tracks, see droppings but never see those deer. They are educated, pressured and wary. You have to sit for long hours watching ridges of acorns or bait . You need to be able to take long shots of 50 to 300 yards in most cases. Can I get closer? yes with modern cammo non scent clothing and cover scents and lots of other things I probably wont be able to get when the stores are closed. Am I the only guy who sees this ???

Axes are Batter just learned the big lesson. Two bow failures and its been months now. What if it had been shtf?? you are dead now my friend. No bow no arrows. Since you started that project I bought a new AR-15 and 1300 rounds of ammo for it. I added another 200 rounds of Buck shot for my shotgun. another 60 rounds of 30-30 and 100 rounds of 30-06. I got dies so my father in law can reload 600 .223 casings I got at the range. What if , just what if the crap hits tomorrow??? are you prepared?

 

Axes are Batter, A 7 year old kid and his grand dad did it for a few bucks. The cost isnt an issue. Put the go pro on your hat.

 

Couple hundred bucks to pick up a go pro, from what I have seen.

All told, I have less than two days in camp working on the bows. Having to work when I have time, for what that is worth. The hard part is only being able to use one blade...REALLY been slowing my progress down.

 

Did you video tape either deer hunt? If not.....they didn't really happen....right?

 

So all video are true the fact you think that because you have a gun that you will be the one comeing out on top is kind of funny there more to it than just being able to shoot the fact that primers won't be made in shtf and what gets stocked piled runs out 3000 rounds is not much at all don't bring a knife to a gun fight Jim Bowie did just that at the sand bar fight when you run out of ammo you will be behind the curb I most likely have put more food on a table with a slingshot bows Atlatl slings rabbit sticks knife blow gun bolas than you have a gun it's a skill and no most are not on video don't mean I have not done it but you do your thing and I will do mine.

 

I have closer to 25,000 rounds. And who ever said all video was true? What I said is there are tens of thousands of modern bow and rifle videos out there that do prove modern weapons work. There are none except for one kid in a deer farm with his grandfather on the Atlatl One video and done pretty well for an old man and a kid in a fenced in deer farm. Have you watched it? There are less then one page on any search engine of primitive bow kills . These are romantic weapons , they are cool , they are neat, exciting to use , awesome to see in flight , A great part of history and they have all been replaced by modern weapons that kill easier, faster, with more range and power. So yes do your thing man . I have enough ammo to last three lifetimes. I have been down your road. Did it when I was a kid. I learned the hard way that it does not keep you fed.