At what distance do you stop being a threat?

That's me! Northern Idaho. Thanks @Don't ! I am looking at the website now but I wouldn't even have a rifle to take the course with as all I got is a Colt LE6920 in 5.56...nice little gun for what I paid for it but don't think it would cut the mustard. OH! The course includes the use of their 'optimal .306 rifle platforms' so it's doable...course is 2-3 days for $1350. Wish I would have know about this while wife was gone visiting her mother as easier to get forgiveness than permission. I am going to look into it anyway. Thanks!

 

I get the use of everyday objects to get a read on the size of your threat. That is easy in a sense but what about your target being in a field or on a hill by a bush? How is one to gauge the size of a man vs. a bush or boulder. If one assumes the threat is say 5 feet tall but the man is 6 then your shot would hit below the neck. If you assume to high then your shot if too high will be an alert not a hit.

Am I on the right track?

 

Yes you are.
This is why it's important that you are determining when the aggression begins. The object is to ensure that everything is in your favor or fade away. There is a complete different doctrine with much more instantaneous reactions if you are the one taking fire.

At the bottom of the S&B P4F reticle are brackets that allow quick reference. If they aren't corresponding to your Mil-dot estimated range, it's time to recalculate.
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/images/stories/absehen/datasheet/datasheet-p4fl.pdf

 

Mostly! The general idea is to take what you know and apply it to the un known, like your guy in the field at an un known distance. IF men average 6 feet in height, and you can see him clearly enough at distance, you use the internal stadia ( mil) of your scope to make a best guess estimate of his distance from you. It actually works well enough with out any other factors that you can make a hit out to around 6 to 800 meters ( depending on the rifle and load) so even Grand Dads old Winchester Mod 70 can be a very effective tool once you know how to use it and to estimate distances! Even before Mil dot scopes, there were ways to estimate ranges and the savvy shooter learned how to read the range accurately enough for a good shot!

 

But what if you do not have one? What was used prior to?

 

In the past, the height and width of the internal markings was used, one of the more popular systems had a vertical post of multiple thickness's that was used for accurate enough ranging estimates. Same with the windage, and these are still relevant today. Nikon uses this system in their B.D.C. scopes combined with first focal plane correction, it makes for a pretty fast and accurate ranging system, surprisingly for a hunting scope!

 

That's a very long conversation, dependent on what platform and service. Let's just say that with a little deviation in the shape of the actual Mil-Dot, all of Our Armed Forces used the simple Mil-Dot Reticle
http://www.fieldandstream.com/sites...ort/BlogPost/embed/milldots.jpg?itok=g88fiTjF
https://gastatic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/mil-dot-reticle2.jpg

Also Leatherwood: Our Story | Hi-Lux Optics
Leatherwood ART 2.5-10x44mm M1000 Scope - Sniper Central

 

This is probably the time to explain come up sheets.
Come up sheets are used to annotate what turret setting matches your rifle/load for ZERO IMPACT Point at different known distances. (Many folks that don't have access to rifle ranges with sufficient amenities, use generated ballistic programs. If you can match at least 3 points of the computer generated flight path, it should get you close enough to refine during OJT.)

But I need to discuss Point Blank Range first. Point Blank Range is determined by the Velocity and Ballistic Coefficient of the round/load you have chosen to field. (For the 175 Grain M118 LR 7.62 NATO round out of a 22 inch barrel, the MPBR of a 250 yard Zero is 300 Yards.) There is no reason to annotate distances shorter than Point Blank Range, as you merely need to hold point of aim and fire. The trajectory of the projectile is such that your shot shouldn't vary high or low enough from the intended aim point to effect the outcome.

The further away from the muzzle, the more drop effects the trajectory. So think of this as a cheat sheet, that allows you to have already made a shot from a known distance, altitude, temperature, humidity, and slant angle. Impact Data Books, Inc. - Modular, Premade, Custom Data/Log Books!

The Auto Ranging Telescope (ART) wasn't as refined, but it did all these functions with the simple rotation of a cam to the mark that matched the distance you ranged your target at.

 

So if everyone has a grasp on the basic concept, is it time to discuss reticles?
My favorite: MSR-reticle development and features
Scroll down and play the tutorial video.

 

So now that we have the MSR tutorial video, it's time to talk about using the the references on the main cross-hair.
This is where scope design and operator selected options comes into play.
1. First or Second Focal plane reticle..
Second Focal Plane reticle is usually less costly, but there will be only one magnification setting that allows the Mil-dots to be calibrated. The size/display of the cross-hair remains constant within the tube, So you will not have differing sight pictures when you change magnification. Second Focal Plane Reticles are at their best when used in fixed power scopes.
First Focal Plane Reticles are usually more expensive, but allows every magnification setting to use calibrated Mil-dots. The physical size of the cross-hair display will stretch or shrink & grow thicker or skinnier as you adjust magnification levels. First Focal Plane Reticles are at thier best in higher powered variable magnification scopes when conditions (Mirage) force changes in magnification.

2. Adjustment Turret Calibration and Mil Matching..
Most folks will tell you that if your using a Mil-dot reticle you need to match the Adjustment Turret Calibration (ie MILS-MILS). While this is excellent advise if you intend to make quick corrections with your ADJ Turret's, in actual operation instantaneous corrections of fire utilize the graduated cross-hair. (here is where I reference the MSR Tutorial) You will notice on every MISS, they give you the Turret Adjustment to correct the next round downrange. This is simply where the MISS impacts in relation to the graduations on the cross-hair. In an actual event, the operator would just place the location on the cross-hair where the MISS impacted on TARGET and SEND IT. Utilizing this method, it becomes irrelevant if your Turret Calibration is in .125 MOA, .25 MOA, .5 MOA, Round Specific Yardage/Meter increments, or Mil-Mil.

I'll pause for input/questions, prior to delving into reticles other than the Traditional Mil-dot.

 

I feel like I am in class. I sure hope we get some range time after all this learning.

Now off to watch the video in the link above.

 

Sorry if I sound preachy.
No range time for me today, after Church it's a Zoo Day. I'll drop back in latter. Hope the video helps.

 

Whatever happened to the rifleman's quarter mile?

 

It seems to have faded from folks memory, just like the Mad Minute.
Mad minute - Wikipedia
Project Appleseed - Wikipedia

One Shot One Kill is more than just a mantra. But to be human is to be imperfect, and if your imperfect with that most important first round, you better be well versed on instantaneous remedial shooting. JMHO.
But I agree with you 100 % Brokor. Nothing is more important than putting the first and only shot required on target.

But I must admit that it is faster (simpler) to range your target and Adjust a yardage/meter round specific Turret, than even a Mil-Mil calibration.

But when punching 1K paper targets for scores, a .125 MOA allows for way more precise control than a .338 MOA minimum adjustment.

 

Me likey MILDOT MASTER & Impact Data books woth a Snipers Hide binder cover



This is my Vortex Viper PST FFP MilDot scope. I need to get the press set up amd start loading again and dial this in. http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/web_manual_ret_viper-pst-6-24x50-ffp_ebr-2c_mrad.pdf

Oh and the bolt is on the "right side"

 

what @Brokor said, the goal is not to miss the shot and to figure out who is going to cause you the most problems,

the man who taught me to tame horses, ride broncs and shoot coyotes @ 400 yrds (i cant do this today, eyesight isnt good enough) also taught me that figuring out who your enemy is and getting close enough not to miss were way more critical than being a good long distance shooter. He took out those vietnames spider holes back in his day and when I knew him he was pretty crippled up but had a mind like a steel trap, in my book he was much more of a danger because of his mind than any single sniper. just my 2cents

didnt mean to derail thread but when I initially read it I did not think you were asking about shooting range, I thought you were asking about potential threats and how close do you let ppl get before taking out threats. Funny how many ways the same thing can be interpreted.

 

Depends on what I have in my hand.

 

Perhaps they work hand in hand. Don't know many folks that can be effective that don't spend any time at the range. New developments always start on the one way range, once they have proven effective then they are adopted to the two way range. JMHO.

 

So on to the reticle discussion. The Traditional Mil-Dot Reticle is the basic "Plane Jane" of ranging reticles. It is exceptionally clean/uncluttered and has been Battle Proven to be effective. But in the never ending quest for increased precision a myriad of other reticles have come along. Reference link: Schmidt & Bender - Riflescopes - Reticles - Police and Military Forces
Taking the Basic Mil-Dot, adding hash marks at the mid points, and opening the actual Dots to allow unobstructed sighting, we come up with variations like the Klein Reticle. Still clean/uncluttered, and theoretically twice as precise as the Traditional Mil-Dot.