Another School Shooting. Gun debate in 3, 2, 1.......

Personally, I am not against teachers having guns on duty. My best friend, retired 22 yrs, airborne jump master, 1st Sgt type, is now teaching school in Texas. I will have to ask but believe he can legally carry while in class.

@Motomom34 "Children should not have to worry about getting shot while on recess. And that is my opinion."
No, and neither should anyone else. However, I think we are kidding ourselves if we think it was better in our grandparents or great-grandparents days. The difference was 1) they were prepared to deal harm to any who were a danger to them or theirs since there were no police available 24/7 via mobile phone. 2) Communications was limited so news of killings weren't splash everywhere our eyes look. 3) It was dealt with in an 'eye for an eye' manner and that evil doer never got a chance to do evil again and served as a good deterrent swinging from a rope in the town center.

I guess what I am trying to say is I am not sure this is anything new. There has always been murder, rape, child predators... I do think given the firearms of today that a more horrid result can occur especially since the majority of the American population are sheep and refuse to act in a sane manner to protect themselves and their families, neighbors, friends...They just don't get that the police can't be everywhere at once - well - they do but by then it is too late.

 

A lot of this can be blamed on media coverage. It gives the evil doer his 15 min of fame, and shows would be evil doers that it's some how acceptable to go out and shoot a bunch of folks.
We need to stop reporting on and sensationalising these crimes and giving air time and bandwidth to these psychos!!!

 

Except on their hanging day..

 

Ura-Ki is correct. We need to quietly take them out, end of game. If captured, they should be quietly escorted to a basement room and shot in the back of the head. With media being the whores they are, the only way to accomplish this is to take them out too. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, just bury them.

 

Once upon a time we had plenty of mental institutions. Many of them abused the crazy folk they kept locked up. There was little oversight or proper control by the government who should regulate them. Today the only ones locked up any ways close to the "old days" are the criminally insane. I am an eye for an eye type of guy. If you are mentally bent and you commit a capitol crime and you get sent to a mental institution, I do not buy it that you can be cured and returned to normal society. In other words I do not buy into the innocent by reason of insanity defense. I consider the act of premeditated capital crime to be an insane act. The taking of a life by accident or in self defense is another whole thing and may or may not have legal repercussions depending on the proven circumstances. No one who pays the ultimate price for their crimes repeat their crimes. If that doesn't reduce violent capital crimes, I don't know what will.

 

I generally am very aligned with your thinking but not quite this time. I concur that quick and certain death penalty would shutdown much of the crime. However...

I know a fellow whose daughter was dating a guy who got overly possessive and started beating her. She got the protective orders and all that. He would still harass her. She’d call police and all that but it continued. He threatened to kill her. She feared for her life and bought a gun. Not long later he shows up and enters her apartment and attacks her. She fears and shoots him. First shot didn’t stop him and he grabs her and also her revolver as she holds it. She tries to fire again but it does not fire. As he is grabbing the gun and she is trying to pull the trigger the cylinder rotates past a round or two. She manages to free the gun of his grip, fires again killing him.

Police investigate. Rule it self defense and everyone thought this was over. The thug’s sister works for the sheriff department and she is pissed and gets an investigation re-opened. The skipped round in the gun was seen as evidence that she must have reloaded and then shot him again making it a homicide. Goes to trail and she is convicted. Her dad sold his gun collection, his tools, the family farm and spent his retirement paying for her defense (I think he got screwed by the lawyer). Maybe the actual event wasn’t as she claimed and quite possibly it was exactly as she claimed. There was supporting evidence such as the restraining orders and calls to police when he threatened her. Still, she was convicted and is currently in jail as appeals proceed but dad is basically broke now.

So, would you really want to execute this girl after 30 days?

AT

 

From what I can gather - the shooter is (ooops, was) a known felon.

He was out on bail after stabbing a woman, the knife described as quite large. The guy is a known felon AND out on bail after ag assault w/deadly weapon. Oh, BTW - the shooter killed that same woman today.

The shooter <s>is</s> was a known felon and had been reported to the local cops for shooting 'bullets into the air' in the neighborhood. Several times. A known felon. Shooting into the air.

What can be done?
1) I would suggest getting the cops off their collective asses. - a possibility in CA. After the shooting 'into the air' as a felon, should have been in the can. Period.
2) Not allowing violent felons out on bail. - Could happen, even in California.
3) Maybe - enforce existing law? Even in California this is still possible.
4) Maybe hold 'local authorities' personally responsible for their demonstrated failures in enforcing existing law? Pretty wild thought, I know, but it should be part of any solution.

 

@ghrit Errrr...can't we just push'em over the side without all the building fires make'em ashes and stuff - I mean - dead is dead and we got to get home in time for the Pat's game?

 

Shooting was in California. California having strict gun control laws.
Shooting was also intended to be in a gun free zone.
Shootings will continue to happen in California not in spite of their gun control, but because of it.
Naturally they want to continue digging their hole even faster by demanding even tougher laws while they ignore the root cause.
If even 5% of teachers were allowed to carry concealed 99% of the maniacs that want to terrorize and murder there would chicken out. We know they are chickens because they only prey on people who can't shoot back.

 

That's a tough call AT, but why would it be considered a homicide even if she had to reload in order the stop the threat to her life? What's the difference between a LEO making a mag change in his/her Glock to stop a perp and this young woman reloading her revolver(if she did) to save her own life? The whole thing should be thrown out and the thugga's sista held accountable with possible charges brought against her.

 

BIG problem here Motomom34... seen this brought up before... the REAL issue here is...

WHO decides the mental illness issue?

would there be politicians that would see to it only certain mental health personal would be selected to hear selected case...

put in place specifically to remove peoples right... ?

kinda like how some lawyers try to get certain judges for certain cases?

In the Soviet Union if you did NOT comply... your were considered mentally defective...

incarcerated until you came to your senses...

so... while I agree with children should not be shot...

I also have to say IMHO there are a very few people that... well the world might be better off if they were shot... ?

WHO decides?

wasn't there a politician or some such that said...

Do not consider laws for the good they may do when administered by good people, it is more important to look very carefully at the bad that could be done by bad people in power with said law... ?? not exact quote mind you...

 

So, this latest shooting happens in Komifornication, and the school shooting part took place for.................................wait for it..................45 minutes! Whisky Tango Foxtrot! Where in hell were the LEO? Where were any armed citizens? Where
were Kali laws that were suppoed to prevent all this from happening!

 

@Airtime good question. In some cases there will be a grey area and that is why having blanket policy could not work. This reminds me of the lady in Florida who is serving time for firing a warning shot at her abuser. Domestic abuse victims trying to protect themselves from further abuse should not be convicted and jailed. That is a sad story and makes me angry.

Who would decide would be state and local officials. Legal competence and mental capacity are what would need to be determined and those are not easy. To get someone declared incompetent requires a visit in front of the judge. As we see from the church shooting in Texas (military dropped the ball) and today's shooting (police never responded to complaints), sometimes those in charge fail to swiftly take action or to do anything. In order for the existing laws to work, officials need to do their job or be held accountable.

Another question is once those rights are removed is that permanent?

 

The Israeli military walks the streets, rides the city buses , carries their weapons locked and cocked , in stores, restaurants , and take their weapons home with them at night. Israel is under constant threat 24 hours a day from the Islamist.
So , in reality , we are under a constant threat from , thugs , thieves , dope heads , mentally unstable people , just plain hateful people , and nowadays , Islamist.
So pack'em and stack'em. You are your best defense.
Prayers to the families of these kids , I just don't understand why people would want to target the innocent's like this. I know they're saying these were stray round casualties , but there have been school targetings , movie theater shootings , and random shootings , many of which were innocent people being targeted.
If someone wants to do harm , it's as easy as running a truck down the sidewalk. Taking guns away from people will not stop this , but guns and a qualified citizen could help stop these types of attacks.
I'm not a card carrying , every week attending devout Christian , but , I believe when prayer was taken out of school, it started changing society. It seemed like society was a lot more respectful towards one another back then. But I was younger , and may not have been as aware of these types of things. But believing in the lord and following a basic set of rules like the 10 Commandments , might not be such a bad idea. And hold parents accountable if they're a blatant pathetic parent, that won't try to teach a kid how they're supposed to act. I may be rambling on here , but sometimes that's just what I do.

 

1. Gun crimes should not be bargained down... most states have additional time or sentences for using a firearm. However these charges seem to be the first ones dropped when plea bargaining begins... additionally these should be compounded with existing sentences i.e. misdemeanor adds 5 years low level felony multiplies by 2, Murder 2 x3, Murder 1 x4, these are served concurrent with original sentence.
2. Use of a stolen firearm in a crime should automatically increase the sentence by 5 years consecutive to the original sentence.
3. Any civil suit against some one using firearms for self defense that are found without merit or where the individual is found not guilty will have any legal fees paid by those bringing charges and if they do not have sufficient funds their attorney will be responsible for the costs of the defense. Any individual that is shot by an homeowner in defense of their home shall not be able to bring a civil suit against said homeowner.
4. Any second gun crime opens up the possibility of capital punishment.
5. Misrepresentation of a crime or extremely liberal use of terms during reporting of a crime i.e. a battery and speaker wire being considered bomb making materials, or labeling 4 or five weapons an arsenal would place the news agency reporting it in jeopardy of a lawsuit foe libel.

I have more but these are a start...

 

#1. The USA has never had a Gun Problem.
#2. The USA like every other Nations has a People Problem.

My solution a week of very slow torture hacking off 3" of flesh and bone starting at the feet and working your way up until death occurs and cauterizing it to stop the loss of blood and keep the perp alive and suffering as long as possible, no pain killers or sedatives! This should be televised in every prison and jail in every cell and common area in the slam. This should be administered for every crime that involves a weapon (Not just guns, knives, baseball bats, hammers, screw drivers etc. And any violent crime perpetrated on someone.

Next strong protections need to be put in place for people that use weapons in self defense. Yes you should be allowed to shoot someone stealing your property, this give them what they want and call the police BS........... yeah to me that is a mental illness, Personally I don't make a real good victim and should have the absolute right to defend by any means what I have worked hard to obtain. The question in every criminals head should be "IS THIS WORTH DYING FOR?" Criminals right now have little fear of significant consequences for their crimes. Sadly in some American Cultures prison time is a right of passage.

Rights and Convicts should never be used in the same sentence. As far as I concerned convicts have no right PERIOD.

Every able bodied citizen should be mandated to own a fire arm and minimum number of rounds of ammo for the fire arm. They should further be required to take a Month long training course in Fire Arm Safety at the age of 18 and a week long refresher and update every year after. The Firearm is the greatest equalizer between bad people and good people and I might be wrong but I believe there are more good people than bad people, about time the odds were rigged in the good folks favor.

 

So many today were raised on the streets, and never learned to value human life. MILLIONS of them are roaming our streets. Banning guns doesn't matter. Making it illegal for felons to possess guns doesn't matter. These thugs will get guns and other weapons.
When it is absolutely certain the thug is guilty - caught in the act "red handed" - he/she should be shot down, or hanged aftera quick short trial, just to get the crime fully documented and achieve closure.
A "self defense" killing needs a much closer investigation, obviously. ANY connection of a perp's family member to LE should demand the trial done somewhere else.