Ukraine grateful for US weapons, Russia voices outrage

It's about time. I like Ukrainians. I worked with their soldiers in Bosnia, Kosovo and the Stans. Good people, good soldiers. It has always ticked me off that we talk so big but have allowed Russia to basically walk right into the Ukraine and we didn't even have the guts to give them the weapons they need to fight back. Yeah, we support freedom...more damn fairy tales. The Ukraine has always got a bad deal from the Russians - well - always, forever. Stalin starving them off in 1932 (The Holodomor (Ukrainian: Голодомо́р); "to kill by starvation" 7-10 million dead) then throwing away Ukrainian divisions to slow Hitler's advance and now Putin knowing no one in the West would help under the Obama rule so he just took what he wanted and he would have taken more (he still might) but I think Germany and France sort of got afraid that Russia's borders just might be a bit too close for comfort and started making noise. Putin doesn't want war with NATO... Anyway, among other weapons, we're sending them Javelins so you keep building all those iron coffins Mr. Putin... Frankly, I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks or says but Trump has truly won me over these past few days:
1. Executive order to ensure critical minerals and metals from American suppliers
2. Told the UN to pound sand over the US recognition of Jerusalem as Israeli capital and Embassy move
3. Weapon sale to Ukraine

Have a read...it truly is game-on. Below is a portion of the AP's write-up (what I thought was important) plus the link for entire article and also a link for a FOX video... This is a big deal, I had to chuckle at the last one "...gives a clear signal to Kiev that it will support a military option" because there is no other option. None. When you play the game with the Russians you play from a position of strength and you play to win because there is no other way. Silly me, I thought we learned that in the SALT talks...but sadly, no. Idiots.

Associated Press
Ukraine grateful for US weapons, Russia voices outrage
MOSCOW — Ukraine's president on Saturday thanked the U.S. for its decision to provide his nation with lethal weapons, while Russian diplomats and lawmakers expressed dismay, warning that it will only fuel hostilities in eastern Ukraine.

The angry response from Moscow comes a day after President Donald Trump's administration approved a plan to provide weapons to Ukraine, including Javelin anti-tank missiles. Ukraine has long sought the weapons for its fight against Russia-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine that has killed more than 10,000 since April 2014 and strongly welcomed the U.S. move.

"I am grateful for the leadership of President Donald Trump, clear position of all our American friends, and for strong bipartisan support of Ukraine," Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said on Facebook in English. "American weapons in the hands of Ukrainian soldiers are not for offensive (purposes), but for stronger rebuff of the aggressor, protection of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, as well as for effective self-defense. It is also a trans-Atlantic vaccination against the Russian virus of aggression."

In Moscow, Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said that the U.S. administration's move has "crossed a line."

Valentina Matviyenko, the speaker of the upper house of Russian parliament, said in remarks carried by Tass that the U.S. move was a "big mistake" that would "pull them into Ukraine's internal conflict."

"With lethal weapons supplies, the U.S. gives a clear signal to Kiev that it will support a military option," Alexei Pushkov, the head of the upper house's information committee, said on Twitter.



Ukraine grateful for US weapons, Russia voices outrage

White House approves lethal arms sales to Ukraine

 

Peace thru superior firepower. There's always less chance of aggression when there's an equal battlefield.

 

I just remember all those guys wearing black masks when the elected Ukraine gov. was overthrown.(CIA?) Newland? That woman from the U.S. was taped saying it was a cheap overthrow of a gov. for the U.S. Moving weapons systems closer to the Russians has been our goal. It isn't all that it seems.

 

We are not alone -
The Liberal cabinet has given the green light for Canadian defence contractors to sell weapons to Ukraine in a watershed decision which a senior official of that country hopes will influence the Trump administration to follow suit.

The embattled eastern European country has been added to Canada's automatic firearms country control list.

The decision was made on Nov. 23, according to a cabinet order posted online.

It was released publicly on Wednesday, as the House of Commons prepared to rise for the Christmas break.

The long-standing plea by the Ukrainian government was a feature of last fall's meeting between

 

@ghrit "Note that Brexit is affecting NATO, of which Putin is currently afraid but may not be for long."
That is an interesting topic in itself and one that I admit I haven't taken much interest in of late. I think the real question is 'How Brexit will affect NATO?' as not sure anyone knows but we do know that President Trump has made a point to tell the our EU allies that unless they increase defense spending that we might not honor our treaty commitments since we are currently shouldering most the burden. And, given his track record of late, I think they better take notice. I did find it interesting (and funny) a while back when the Britain rep (can't remember her name) was trying to convince the President that while the USA is important to NATO, NATO is also important to the United States...I suppose this is true but certainly do not weigh the same, not even close. I'm not waving the flag here just expressing what I think to be true...

@Big Ron " Moving weapons systems closer to the Russians has been our goal. It isn't all that it seems."
Yeah, that's an understatement... But, I am not sure we would move weapon systems in there cause I don't think we would push Putin that hard, frankly don't think Germany and others would let us even if we wanted to do so and also understand that the Russian propaganda machine was at full throttle so we truly do not know what are truths and what are lies. We do now know that it was Russia behind the revolts. Also, their economy has been ripped to shreds so much so that they can't even be bailed out and most of it was caused by corruption. Of course, Russia knows this and played on it, when I say Russia I actually should say Putin. What an interesting guy...got to admire him. It will be interesting to see how this plays out...I wonder if this will be the start of the 2nd Cold War using the Ukraine instead of Germany, probably make everyone happy too!

Personally, I don't think Putin wants any conflict problem with the West and think this venture into the Crimean might be a big mistake on his part. The Russian economy is not doing very good with oil prices down in the dirt. The wife's friend spent last weekend with us and she's real Russian (NW of Vladivostok) and between her and my wife (her brother is real Russian near Krasnoyarsk) we get pretty good info on what is happening at the grass roots level. They're hurting, bad. And, the sanctions are not helping... And, I don't see how Russia can recover given oil prices, don't think it can. I think this is why Putin stopped when Germany started raising hell about it because he has a lot to lose personally (possibly the richest man in the world), and politically at home and internationally. Russia is hurting...the ruble is down in the dirt like a third-world country (58 to $1) so if you want a good time, "Moscow calling!"

 

@DKR "...the green light for Canadian defence contractors to sell weapons to Ukraine in a watershed...released publicly on Wednesday"

WOW! I didn't hear this! Okay, so there is definitely something going on behind the scenes...need to be listening to other countries to follow suite now...Putin will never give up the Crimean now, he can't, so what are they up to...? They can use the Ukraine as leverage for just about anything so what...Syria? Iran? What?

 

As a Ukrainian, I say it's long past time my people's had weapons again! This is a pretty strong move, and Putin cannot do much if any thing to stop it. The timming of this is almost perfect, keeps the Russians from expanding south and locks up the oil ambitions! Russia needs the port or Odessa, Russia needs the incredible farming and manufacturing of the eastern Oblasts, and they need the black sea fleets and ship yards! The loss of the Ukraine ( historical capital of all of Russia, before Moscow) has been a major thorn in Putin's side, and he desperatly needs to retake it by what ever way he can. The Russians took all the weapons from the Ukraine right before the purge, and has kept a military thumb on their throats since then! This finally puts a major stop to Putin and will force him to play ball in negotiations where he has been a hard liner, and will take much of his bluster! Bottom line, it shores up a strong alliance with the Ukraine, and puts Russia in check! Watch for Putin to change his tune on things very soon!

 

@Ura-Ki I agree that this stops them from getting the port of Odessa but they already got the Naval Base (and port) of Sevastopol which I think was the determining factor for him to invade (for want of a better word). They needed that naval base and they got it. But, they stopped and they stopped when Obama was in so... so why are we ramping up the pressure now on him? And, not only us but the Canadians also? I mean, no way would Putin try to advance West while Trump is in office. I expected him to consolidate and wait and see who/what is the next administration, time is on his side after all, he gets stronger every day. It definitely will create strong ties between the USA and Ukraine...I mean, the Ukraine wants into NATO but they are technical at war so cannot have membership.

Now the Canadians aren't giving weapons to the Ukraine, they are just allowing them to purchase them which, of course, they can't because they're broke (unless the US gives them money!). The US are giving the weapons (if I read correctly) and the good stuff too which is why Russia is raising hell with us... I can understand Trump doing this but don't understand Canada, maybe Canada is just showing support...? And, why is Trump doing this now, he had it in his pocket for a full year and now over Christmas holidays he decides to act?

What does Trump want which also benefits Canada enough so that a Liberal government will go public and vote in this manner? Was/is Putin actually considering trying something this Spring? Or is this about Russia's Mideast involvement? Interesting...

 

Oil!!! Most all oil moves through Odessa! Sebastopol was a bonus to Putin, but not the end run in the Crimea. It is and always has been Odessa and the major ship yards and terminals for access to external shipping and control, and with out Odessa, Putin looses his pipe dreams through the Black Sea region! The other major asset is tank and heavy mil production based in the eastern Kiyyv region, especially near the Dons, and minning equipment production ranks up there too! Then there are all the major oil posessing plants, and synthetic oil and fuel production, and the major coal mines are also located in the area. Even Moldovia is at serious risk, being so closely aligned across the board, and that really ties in the link to the rest of Europe.

 

Don't claim to understand what is going on in the Ukraine, just think it is a bad idea to try to restart a smoldering fire by throwing gasoline on it. The whole thing reminds me too much of Tuchman' s The Guns of August and the start of WW1. In the real world events have a way of taking unexpected turns and giving results that are neither planned nor optimum. With the prevailing jet stream wind patterns in the USA , and the old USSR "Tzar Bomba", I don't really like the idea that don't worry, they will always fold.
Hard to find any information on the Ukraine that is unbiased, everyone has a dog in the hunt, and expresses their views, and I have no idea if any real "truth" exists.

 

The United states is the #1 manufacturer of weapons. Time to start acting like it.

 

I used to read time n newsweek and then soldier of fortune... figures the real truth was somewhere in the middle...

oddly enough over time seemed like soldier of fortune proved a little more accurate in many case then the other 2...

 

@Ura-Ki "...Odessa and the major ship yards... pipe dreams through the Black Sea region...major oil possessing plants, and synthetic oil and fuel production..." All very valid points and reasons. I have not given enough weight to Odessa. It is obviously also their access to the Med. I would think the real end game is to take over the entire Ukraine over time as it truly is a rich country in assets and resources even ports and if it wasn't so in debt and flat broke it would be right up there with Germany.

"Even Moldova is at serious risk"
Well, I spent a bit of time there myself and they really don't have much besides good wine and amazingly beautiful women...but that is another story for another time. It would be interesting to see how they would jump as there is a very strong Russian influence there from families that came after the war. Most people speak Russia and Moldavian (which in truth is Romanian).

@duane "Hard to find any information on the Ukraine that is unbiased... and I have no idea if any real "truth" exists."
Now that is the truth and perhaps the only truth. The amount of misinformation (propaganda) from both sides was amazing and overwhelmingly successful because we will never know the real truth or, as you say, even if it exists. I really see how the Ukraine could turn into the 21st Century East vs. West (like Germany) 2nd Cold War and sometimes wonder if that wouldn't be such a bad thing. It would definitely lift the Ukraine out of the economic mud and perhaps provide some stability as many things were actually better during the cold war.