C&R guns. Useful tools or relics?

It would be a safe bet to say that a lot of the form members here have a C&R firearm. I know I do. Now taking money out of the equation what's your picks for C&R battery? Choices are many and as varied as members here. And yes I'm stirring up the pot again!

 

An Oh 3 A3. Unmodified. 'Nuf said. (I'm not biased, I'm prejudiced)

 

Given my skill set, and propensity for moving around high speed, low drag, I actually prefer a Bolt Action Rifle in a sort of Stalking/Scout configuration, and nothing says Bolt action fighting rifle like a 1903 Springfield, or my new build K-31 Swiss rebarreled to .308 Win.
Outside of those two, I also collect 1855 Colt Revolving rifles, and while some what slow to reload, they are very effective and deadly, even all these years later. I also have no problems using any of the Front Stuffers I own, they do the job! I may not have the latest and greatest, tacticool tools, but what I DO have, I'm much better with then the average bear! LOL

 

You are quite right about the Swiss S-R's. I have a G1911, a K1911 and a K1931. For what is a manually operated rifle they are very fast. I often wondered why they didn't take one more step and make them into a gas operated semi auto. All they needed to do was tap some gas and add an op-rod. The Aussies did it to the No.1Mk 3 during WWII. Sorry for the digression.

 

@ghrit, May I humbly recommend one of the Winchester Varietals, perhaps the M-97 of the pre 1955 vintage! I find they have all the desired effects of a combat shotgun with out all the flash and accessories that detract from combat effectiveness!

 

I managed to score several barreled actions for projects, and have been playing around with them to see what I can do with them, So far, the nastiest is a .300 Win Short mag, Stripper clip fed from specially modified clips, its about as nasty as they get, but my two favorites are the .308 and the 6.5X55 Swede!

 

In no particular order, and with some features that I admire, here are my top 10. (Good ol' days pricing included as an inducement to buy now. Nothing is getting cheaper. 8mm corrosive surplus ammo was under $100/1k for years, still shoots great, 7.62x51 was $139/1k, and 7.62x39 was $99/1k. .30-06 and 7.5 Swiss have always been a bit higher, but nowhere near the price range they bring now.

Definitely an investment.

Spanish FR8 - Compact, handy, tough. Brand new chrome lined barrels, 7.62x51, Bird cage flash hider completely tames the flash from the 16" barrel. I'm partial to bolt guns because of their ability to feed and eject non-standard cartridges. (greased round ball, plastic training ammo, cat-sneeze.) Piles of these came in for around $100 twenty years ago, and got snatched up and squirreled away quickly. I haven't seen one at a show in 10 years.

98K Mauser - German precision. $150-170

SKS - The only semi-auto on my list. Can be down loaded and cycled as a bolt action with light loads. Reasonably accurate. $50 all day long for grease covered fresh from the crate Yugos. 7.62x39 cast bullet loads gas-checked and sized to .314" will out-shoot any commercial jacketed ammo in mine.

Swiss K31 - Odd caliber, but worth the trouble. Berdan primed GP11 brass alone is worth learning to reload Berdan primers. Supremely accurate and can use standard .308 bullets. ($175-225) Standard sights are wonderful, Diopter is even better, but will double/triple the purchase price.

Springfield M1903a3 - Load it at full power for long range sniping, or load it with round ball for small game. Very tough and accurate. ($300 +)

Sako M39 - This is not your average Mosin-Nagant. This is a whole different rifle, and a tack driver. Likes 180gr bullets. ($139-179)

Ishapore 2A1 - All the advantages of a battle tested workhorse in 7.62x51. Quick action. (buy an extra extractor or two) ($99)

Mosin Nagant 91/30, M44, M38 - These were all $35 out of the case a few years ago. They can be great shooters. If anyone is shooting back in low light, get good at shoot-and-move, because the muzzle flash on the carbines will make you a bullet magnet.
($35-59)

P.S. Holy Smoke! Have you looked at the price of trench guns lately? There are four on the wall at the gun shop from WWI to Vietnam era. The least expensive is $2000.

 

A little Teaser for you! ( Not Mine) but mine is very close to this! Mine has a different front sight/muzzle brake that retains the bayonet lug, but is otherwise identical ( mostly) as I also have a modified A3 rear sight that is larger and more rounded winged base, and a strait bolt handle on mine! A modern twist on an Old War Horse that will out shoot most newer rifles, especially with its Criterion 4 grove NRA match spec barrel!

 

Don't call them C&R, don't buy them now, but the Mosion Nagants for $100 with a spam can of corrosive included and the WW2 Mauser rifles for $50, was given Springfields when they got their new semi auto If cleaned properly, proper heat treatment and steel, they have lasted 60 or more years, work when cold or dirty, have ammo that is easily reloaded and will shoot lead bullets that you can cast, have heavy slow moving bullets with a lot of foot pounds of energy, 3006 is close to 3,000 ft lbs, 223 is about 1400 ft lbs, I would expect that given most modern vest will stop either, the blunt force trauma of the old rifles might be slightly higher.The Springfield was used as a sniper rifle from about 1915 until the Vietnam war. In my mind the main advantage of the older weapons was that they were not designed for spray and pray shooting. The military load out for the Springfield was about 100 rounds and I have used a Lee loader, the original one without a press, to load and shoot a single cartridge 5 times at the range as an exercise, in the same rifle, and it worked well. The load out I see most often posted for the M-4 is about 200. The 06 cartridge is notorious for being forgiving about the powder used and even the amount and with manual extraction, old defective ammo can be extracted, and given the recoil, you will notice a squib load. While I would prefer the "black rifle" type gun in a full frontal assault or ambush in theory, I think that the average bolt action with the savings put into ammo or reloading supplies would be more effective. That being said, an AR-15, cleaning kit, 1250 rounds of ammo and magazines for $1,000 as was discussed in an earlier post can not be beat and given the price of the older rifles, and of the ammo for them. If I were buying my first defensive weapon today it would be the one described and add a good scope.

 

Oh! I'm drooling. I grew up using one of these extremely well made and reliable Winchester shotguns. The picture you've put up on the board shows an absolutely outstanding (and refurbished, but who cares) Model 1897. Kudos!

 

Speaking from experience as to just how powerful the .30/06 is ( and almost as good .308/7.62X51) you do not wanna be on the receiving end, even wearing level IV plates, a single hit will put you out of the fight for a long while. I took a round of 7.62X39 at point blank to my chest plate, and it put a golf ball size dent in the plate, you should have seen the goose egg and black, blue, and yellow bruise I had for two months, that single hit put me on my ass for 20 to 30 min, and I had trouble breathing for several days, not to me tion it hurt like hell! Now quadruple that power from the big .30 and you can imagine the size dent that would make, not to mention the number of broken ribs you would get! I have also seen the trauma caused by that big .30, it's devastating! Found a tango lying in a puddle of his own making who had taken a round through his heel, that 150 gr pill went all the way up his leg and exited his shoulder, and wiped out every thing in its path! I have also see the aftermath of a head shot, not much of a head left over when a 150 gr passes through it! Nasty is an understatement! I'm Not much for the 5.56 using standard Mil spec ammo, better is to use good 72 and 77 gr soft point or hollow point match ammo, for causing trauma, because you don't have mass to cause tissue damage, so you need to expand the bullet, but you loose impact energy against hardend tangos wearing plates or other forms of armor! I only ever plan to use my AR as a defensive weapon, and the big .30s for offensive and Precision work!
I have found the new Sierra 190 gr SMK works astoundingly well in the mighty old 03 Springer, really reaches out there, and hits like a run away freight train! The rifle really likes them and likes them fast, I'm reading them at 2790 fps and the 180gr version at 2925ish and those loads are super precise at ranges I cannot see through irons! Same bullet in a 175 and a 168 for the .308 is equally impressive, and again, more accurate then I can even see.

 

98 Mauser's

 

98 Mauser's Czech Vz24

 

Save your pennies and order up a Daumolline Comercial Mauser 98 from Sarco, the very best of Paul Mausers design with all the proven mods. You can get a loaded receiver with fitted bolt and nice bottom metal for under $400 and a really good .30/06 barrel for under $200, then order up a Boyds stock and finish it to suite, and your in to a super sweet shooter for less then most decent new rifles!

 

Sadly, the trend is rifles that are simply put together rather than built. Most of the rifles I see at the range that guys "built" had instructions like an Ikea table, and about as much plastic. They're happy to hit a 20" square of cardboard at 50 yards and make a lot of noise.

 

I have more than I can shoot now all custom