A connundrum:

LOL Falcon is this a "Spring thing" you posted last year almost to the day this thread http://www.survivalmonkey.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6366

Nothing to be ashamed of if the cash just ain't been there , God knows with gasoline going through the roof and taking everything else with it times have been hard the last few years .

That Cowboy popper might be better than a spatula but not by much , especially if times get much harder and crime starts escalating with the prices .

You gotta try to stash say $5 a week away and get a good used DA/SA revolver at the very least or perhaps a Ruger 10/22 rifle for home defense with a few Ramline 25 round mags .

O and is this http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98784596
your gun ?

When you look at that gun look at the dealers other auctions on page 2 they have a used Rossi that is at only $106 with a 2 inch barrel and a 4 incher at $142 as well as a few others that may not be pretty but they should serve your needs .

If you're on a really tight budget something like this little baby might just do the trick http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98939299

I bet that goes for under $100 .

Even loaded with 38 target wadcutters it would be far more effective than a 22 rimfire .

 

Check out the below link for Guns America, when it loads select "Sort by: Price (Lowest first)". The first non dealer paid ad is for a 5 shot 38 revolver for $199, there are others for a little more. I have bought several items from this site and you just have to talk with a FFL dealer in your area to set up the transfer and buy the gun through the site.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/157/Guns/Pistols/Charter-Arms-Revolvers.htm

 

Lol, Big. I'd forgotten all about that thread last year. Oh my, does this mean I have Spring Gun Fever? Is it contagious? Is it curable?

Nope, the gun on the gunbroker auction is not like mine - wrong model. But I notice they have a TA90. And several others ..........

I'd actually put the whole gun-buying thing on the back burner this past year. I figured I'd use what I had if need - but I'm starting to get antsy about relying on it solely. Having it, the rifles and the shotgun is all fine and well but in a pinch, if I'm away from home, I'd like to know I had something tucked in the belt, pocket or purse that could repel more than a chihuahua at range.


(To be fair, my revolver will do that, but it's just so damned heavy!)

I'll go look through the older thread for pearls of wisdom as well.

 

*sigh*

Ok, Big, the reason for the other thread was IF I decided to carry, which gun(s) would be preferable. Several of you guys asked what my reasons were since this would affect the weapon itself.

Now I've determined there is a need to carry - this world continues to spin uncontrollably and I have no liking for being dizzy. I'm not saying I'm morphing into a wild-eyed, gun-wielding, sarong-wearing madwoman - just that I'd like to be able to protect me and mine if someone with more balls than brains takes it upon him/herself to challenge my sovereign right to life and property.

This week, I'll visit our 'local' pawnshop. They usually have a small but varied selection of handguns. I suppose I could try and drag monkeyman along for his expertise if he's not busy. Husband knows a fair bit about such things, too, but mm's know-how is a little more up to date with these little buggers.

 

If Im not being paid for my time then its VERY rare that Im to busy to go look at guns. lol

I will post some info here both for any lurkers it may be helpful to and to see if I can organize it better for your consideration as well.

We have established the only other handgun you have is a single action .22 and are on a budget so wont be likely to be buying 3-4 handguns soon, so we want it to be somewhat versatile and as such would probably avoid things like derringers. A 2 shot deringer in appropriate calibur would definatly be easy to drop in a pocket and forget about untill needed and can be had for around $100 or so BUT for one you ONLY have 2 shots then have to flip up the barrels and reload it then lock the barrels back in place soif there are 3 attackers your hosed or even 1 and you miss once then the second dont finish the job, second they are very dificult to shoot accurately, if you couldnt throw the gun and hit them then you could forget shooting them with a deringer, and third they are so small and light they tend to have a lot of recoil and few folks would ever practice with one enouph to improve with them.

We have already established that the gun is for self defense so, while a .22 beats a pointy stick a larger calibur is MUCH more suited to the task. Self defense caliburs start with those that have projectiles that are .38" and go up from there. There are 4 common caliburs that all have the same .38" size projectile they are 9mm (the 'standard' 9mm is also known as 9x19mm, 9mm Luger, 9mm parabelum there ARE other kinds of 9mm that are NOT the same includeing .380 is sometimes labled as 9mm short and such), .380, 38 special and .357 magnum (.357 is always a magnum in revolvers) then there are others the same size slightly less popular like .357 sig, other 9mm rounds and so on but we will stick to the most common ones for now. Then the sizes go on up from there to (and with some less common ones beyond) .45 cal.

The smaller/lighter a gun is in the same calibur the more felt recoil or kick there will be. So particularly for a female of smaller person and shooting a smaller gun you want to consider this. As a general rule the larger the calibur (especialy in common handgun ammo) the more expensive it is. Practice is important reguardless since if you are afraid of the gun, cant remember how to make it shoot without thinking about it or cant hit your target then its nothing more than an expensive and dangerous noise maker. That said I would suggest staying in the .38" class. Any of the 4 listed in this class are common, easy to find and (comparatively) affordable but if you walk into a hardware store or bait shop or some such that ONLY has 1 kind of handgun ammo (other than maybe .22) it is probably going to be 9mm aka 9mm Luger, aka 9x19mm also if you start looking for special types of ammo like self defense ammo, hunting ammo or even tracers and such they are all easily found in 9mm. This is also the calibur the military and NATO uses and most police departments as well, it also has more power behind it than the .380 or .38 special and is commonly slightly cheaper than .380 or .38 special especialy if you get the chance and buy military or LEO surpluss. So given these considerations I would say that 9mm would be the most ideal calibur due to power, availability and price of the ammo. If you go with a revolver from these caliburs, while it will most likely cost slightly more I would strongly recomend going with the .357, as mentioned all 4 of these shoot the same size projectile, if you have a .357 you can shoot .38 special ammo in it if you choose which is cheaper so great for practice in particular and adequate for defense but then can also step up to .357 ammo if you want for carry or any time you may want/need more power so it increases your options for ammo. NOTE VERY IMPORTANT, if you put the .357 ammo in a .38 special gun then you will blow up the gun, the interchange ONLY works the one way.

Next we also established that you want something concealable. When buying revolvers, so long as its of enouph quality to not blow up or come apart then they will generaly function (can still in rare cases malfunction but more reliable in general than semi autos, particularly in the same price range) BUT they have the cylender which even if the rest of the gun is smaller limits how thin they can be so they are generaly a bit heavier due to the extra metal of the cylender and also thicker thus slightly harder to conceal in many instances. Semi autos do take a bit more care when shopping on a budget since while some, even some very affordable ones like the Bersas (and Firestorms which are made by the same manufacturer, just a different line) are VERY reliable and no more costly than low end revolvers. There are also junk semi autos out there like Lorcins, Jenings and some others that are totaly unreliable and should be avoided. While there are advantages to both revolvers and semi autos (I even kind of prefer shooting revolvers) I have found that compact semi autos are easier to conceal and more comfortable to carry.

Personaly I dislike double action only (DAO) automatics like the Glocks and many others. DAO means that, generaly there is no visible hammer (if theres no visible hammer its pretty sure to be DAO) and each time you pull the trigger it will be a longer harder trigger pull than a single action handgun. A single action handgun is like your revolver and also like the 1911 type guns (mostly in .45s and the ones the military used to use, also like Magnum PI carried) where you have to pull the hammer back to cock it before you can fire it. With most if not all semi autos that have a hammer, includeing the 1911 types, after you shoot it it cocks the hammer for the next shot as it ejects the spent case and loads the next round. Then you that double/single action or DSA semi autos where you CAN cock it to fire the first shot and have all the shots with a shorter lighter single action trigger pull OR you can just pull the trigger on the first shot and have the heavier longer pull o the double action trigger pull for the first shot then it cocks its self for the follow up shots untill empty. Single action also isnt (IMHO) ideal since you have to cock it for the first shot and in a defensive situation that MAY take a fraction of a second you dont have unless you carry it cocked with the saftey on which means you still have to take the saftey of. With DSA you can fire it either way, you can also carry it with the hammer down (any modern handgun will have a transfer bar that keeps it from going off unless the trigger is pulled, it cant just get jolted and go off) and saftey off like I always do then just pull the trigger and it fires like a double action revolver for the first shot and single action for the rest. It also has the advantage that has to be built in as an extra on double action only autos that in the unlikely event you have a round with a bad primmer and it dosent fire the first time you can just pull the trigger again and it may fire on the second strike without haveing to manualy eject the round.

So my recomendation would be a semi automatic compact or sub compact handgun in 9mm that is single/double action and wether its me or someone else, if you dont buy a brand that has been suggested by someone you trust on the subject, be sure you take someone along who is knowledgable on handguns to be sure you get one that's reliable.

There may be others that fit the description also but the ones I KNOW fit the bill would be the Bersa Thunder 9mm or Bersa Firestorm 9mmultra compact which is what I carry. Brand new they come with 1 spare magazine (each mag holds 13 rounds but can also buy 10 round mags for it) and they cost about $325. The Bersa Thunder .380 is also excelent and $75-100 less BUT ammo isnt QUITE as available (Wallmart has it but the hardware store wont), slightly more expensive some of the time, specialty ammo is MUCH harder to find and the ammo is less powerful though still plenty adequate, its the calibur most law enforcement in Europe carries and I have seen excelent results with it in a pig useing Federal Hydroshock ammo to prove it will go through a head shot and a fair bit of meat so should go all the way through on a chest shot. Oh and any of the amo mentioned is also legal for deer hunting in MO so if you get good enouph with it you can hunt deer with it in the fall but 9mm would also be much better here.

So even if you choose something totaly different, hopefuly that will at least give you at least the basic info to look at in considering your choices.

I will also mention that for you or others new to guns, if you dont have someone else check it for you and you then I would say unless it is a brand you know makes reliable semiautos (some companies make great revolvers but their semi autos suck) then go with a revovler to avoid the risk of getting a semi auto that wont function when needed. If buying used then on a revolver make sure the cylender dosent 'wiggle' when its closed and on semi autos or revolvers either one use a bore light if available and if not a reflective surface (even white paper) to shine light through the barrel (and on revolvers each opening in the cylender) then look in it from the other end. It sould look shiney and have lines that swirl or twist down the barrel. If you see anything other than those cemetricaly twisting lines and a shiney barrel or if the twisting lines look rouph then ask them to run a brush or bore snake through it then check again. If they wont do it or if you still see other marks in the bore or the lines still dont look smooth then you DONT want it, it is most likely rust pits or other damage to the inside of the barrel and it will NOT shoo accurately and if bad enouph could be dangerous. There are other things that can be good to check but from there tend to become more technical and if it passes those basic tests then it SHOULD at the least be functional and safe.

Hopefuly this will all be more helpful than confuseing.

 

Thanks for the info, monkeyman. But in all that, you made an essential error.

We had already established that a .22 was better than a spatula for self-defense .

 

Yeah, well I give the round a little more credit and figure its also better than a pointy stick.

 

Just a word of thought here , while monkeyman doesn't like double action only autos there is one thing to be said for them that even though despite not owning one I personally like and that is the fact that the trigger pull will be consistent from shot to shot just like a SA only auto or a DA/SA revolver in each respective mode .

With my revolver I practice firing DA exclusively for defensive the use of SA in my opinion is for squeezing every last fraction of accuracy out of a shot in other words in a hunting situation making a clean kill on a game animal .

No offense MM but with Falcons limited experience over so many years I think she would be far better served with that kind of shot to shot consistency of trigger pull if nothing else for pure comfort and familiarity for one who's isn't on a strict regiment of practice .

While it will cost a bit more initially I believe a weapon like the KelTec or a Taurus Millennium Pro in 380 or 9mm would be ideally what she needs if she doesn't choose the familiarity of a revolver in 38 .

 

There is something to be said for that, I know most folks can get just as accurate with a DAO as with SA but it tends to take more practice. For ME at least I practice almost exclusively on single action INCLUDEING cocking the hammer as I draw it so the first shot is single action also but personaly I like the fact that IF the split second it takes to cock it is critical it can just be fired DA as well as that a LOT of the DAO autos I have seen DONT have second strike capability so a bad primer means a clearance rather than another pull of the trigger. Its mostly personal preference but wanted to at least toss out the differences in the actions and what they mean. D/SA just works best for me but part of that is in the way I practice (and that part can be practiced in dry fire drill without shooting) and that I almost always prefer whatever gives the most options just on principal.

 

Ditto, these little Keltecs run like a champ. I have a .32 and a .380 and they are so small I never leave home without them. I know quite a few cops that carry them as their backup weapons. The problem with carrying concealed is that you almost always have to plan for covering garments, holsters, etc. With the Keltec you do not need anything of that nature. Just slip it in your pocket. It is so small you forget it is there. That custom 1911 doesn't do you any good at the house, but with a Keltec you will never leave home without it. I recommend them to all of my friends, and lots have bought them. I haven't heard one complaint yet. Both of mine run like a champ. Very reasonable price wise too.

 

Oh figured would give the 'relativeness' of accuracy in her case. She hasnt shot autos much and hadnt shot those particular ones more than once if ever. I set up a family size liquid detergent bottle (about 10"x14") and a couple of gallon size or so jugs about 30' or a little so away and with her standing at the top of the few steps I think pretty much every shot that didnt hit the targets hit dirt close enouph that if she had been shooting for center of mass on an attacker they would have all landed in the chest/torso includeing the first shot with each which had her fire in double action to learn the difference in the feel between the 2 types of action.

So while some practice with a new handgun, like anyone, would be in order, she didnt do bad at all with them. While she seemed to LIKE the .380 better and kept them torso accurate, with the 9mm most of the shots hit the jug, went through the opening in the handle or hit close enouph under it to make the jug jump.

 

Does that mean I did ok?

(I may also add that he had me facing the sun square on - was lovely glinting off my glasses.)

I liked the .38 better, yes, but was more accurate with the 9mm. It seemed heavier and less comfortable. (Whether it really is or not, I don't know.) I do wonder if the slide would give me trouble over time -

 

The best way to easily "Rack" a slide is to hold the gun in both hands with your elbows pointed out away from your sides and to push both hands together "finger off of trigger naturally" , this beats trying to pull a slide back especially on a something like a Compact 1911 which normally come with 22lb + recoil springs .

If you are good at wood working or know someone who is you can also make a "Cocker" from a block of wood , you have to cut/drill out the wood in such a way that you can push the muzzle of the gun into it far enough for the slide to travel completely rearward .

I know it sounds odd but many years ago Guns & Ammo showed one and how to make it for those who had problems with a 1911 .

 

One aspect I had forgotten about (Monkeyman mentioned it) and I think is a BIG one.

We are working on a tight budget here, so the quality/reliability of an inexpensive snub revolver at a budget price is going to be much better than a semi auto at the same price.

I can't speak to the litle keltec autos, I've never owned one, but I'm naturally more trusting of a revolver, especially at the prices were talking about.

 

I would ALMOST agree with that idea. If I was telling someone who didnt know anything about guns and wasnt going to have someone along familiar with various handguns then UNLESS they went with a list of brands of afordable good autos then would send them for a revolver hands down. IF on the other hand they have some one to go with them that knows the different brands or got a list of the brands that are good then you CAN get semi autos that are totaly reliable in the same price range as a low end snub nose revolver. The ones I have the most first hand experience with in that class are Bresas, with the .380 for instance, I have had it for over a year and put over 1k rounds through it with not a single malfunction includeing after it has been carried in Tinas purse for weeks with no cleaning or maintnance and it only cost about $250 new in the box. From most all acounts I have heard the KelTecs are about the same way and a few others.

So the main difference is that in that price range you coud get most any apropriate size and cal revolver you happen across and figure it will go bang when you pull the trigger while on a semi auto you have to know what you are buying to know its going to function right all the time, especialy in that price range.

 

Yup, especialy for not being used to semi autos let alone those in particular, you did decent and at the least well enouph to have gotten the job done.

One thing though that you goofed on in the post and Tina dose the same thing, that is NOT a .38, its a .380 or .380 acp (automatic colt pistol) a .38 is (almost always) a revolver. It seems like a minor thing but if you go to buy ammo a difference like that can mean you get ammo that will not function in the gun (or if it dose it can blow up the gun or cause it to malfunction) and many places ABSOLUTELY will NOT take back ammo for any reason. I know the guy at Walmart put a box of ammo I had no gun for in my bag once, the guy in front of me had looked at it and he didnt charge me but bagged it up with my stuff, and when I realized it after I got home I tried to take it back. I explained what happened and wasnt even trying to get money or credit for it and they STILL refused to take it back, even to throw it away. Given the price of ammo, that gould get REAL upsetting if got ammo you couldnt use.

 

I don't know if this is a waste of your time Falcon but here goes a few tips on keeping those straight a 38 special is said thirty eight special and think of it as a short 357 "said as three fifty seven" .

A 380 is said as three eighty , not three hundred eighty and think of it as the American version of short 9mm .

The diameter of the bullets in a 38 and a 357 are .357 with jacketed bullets and .358 with cast Or lead ones , a 9mm and a .380 ACP use .355 diameter jacketed bullets and .356 lead/cast ones .

With a modern "38" you must remember to say the word Special when buying ammo because there are still old versions of "38's" running around such as the 38 Long Colt or 38 S&W etc. etc .

I know I know , it can be confusing but what can we do .