The Coming Fall of Russia

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by chelloveck, Oct 31, 2023.


  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    An interesting take on Russia's devolution since the dissolution of the USSR, and its last gasp attempt to hold the periphery together by force against Ukraine. The YouTube clip looks at the various social, political and economic forces which hold the Russian Federation together and those which pull it apart. Russia is like a fading Potemkin village, where the paint and plywood are fading and rotting...although it is punch drunk and on the ropes, Russia, under Putin is still a significant danger to the rest of the world.



    Russia's descent into authoritarianism and kleptocracy is a warning to Americans. Some elements of society would be happy to trade a constitutional republic / representative democracy for the illusion of certainty and security that a strong man could seem to offer....It was the same kind of promise made to Italians, and Germans after WW1 . When one of the main contenders for America's Presidency admires and sings the praises of the likes of Putin upload_2023-10-31_17-40-33. , Xi upload_2023-10-31_17-40-2. Kim Jong Un upload_2023-10-31_17-42-1. , and Viktor Orban upload_2023-10-31_17-43-23. , it would seem that he would be ok with dispensing with the Constitution and running America like his role models.
     
  2. Tempstar

    Tempstar Monkey+++

    Indeed, Russia is a country in constant governmental flux, seemingly a great experiment in ways destined to fail. Meanwhile the general populace goes about their day suffering through it, much as we do here in the States, as they do in China, as they do in North Korea, etc. The only good government would appear to be no government.
     
  3. Kamp Krap

    Kamp Krap Monkey++

    The USA is without question in decline for many of the same reasons Rome went in to terminal decline. Corruption, Dependence and Diversity. The corruption public and private is undeniable and at every level. The dependence on our enemies for most of our basic needs. Diversity sounds great until so many clashing ethnicity's and cultures are crammed together..... violent small scale conflicts are inevitable one only need look to Cities and the ethnic gang structures.
     
  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I didn't take you for an anarchist, Tempstar.

    As Winston Churchill famously quipped....

    ‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…

    Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947



    “For, in a democracy, every citizen, regardless of his interest in politics, 'holds office'; every one of us is in a position of responsibility; and, in the final analysis, the kind of government we get depends upon how we fulfill those responsibilities. We, the people, are the boss, and we will get the kind of political leadership, be it good or bad, that we demand and deserve.”
    JFK.
    About the Book | JFK Library.

    The fortunes of a nation may be influenced by those who hold executive, legislative, judicial and economic power, but at the end of the day, it is the 'people' who by their apathy permit the bad, or by their active support, promote the bad. The good, requires engagement and commitment to 'the good', which is not such an easy thing for many.
     
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  5. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Personally, I think Churchill nailed it. Democracy is slow, messy, confusing and very, very frustrating; however, there is nothing else better and is certainly better than the alternatives as history has proven over and over... Having said that...I do wonder if technology might give us a better democratic- republic. My point is, history also shows that power corrupts, whether it be a single individual like a King or a large group like a Congress. What if we the People could actually vote on Bills instead of relying on a representative? Just something I have been thinking about...how we could change things to put power back into the People's hands since it is very obvious that Congress is corrupt and beyond saving.
     
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  6. johnbb

    johnbb Monkey+++

    Senators were originally appointed by the state to represent the states interests. Then it was changed to vote them in and now they don't represent the state they represent and hold allegiance to the party and self interest. Diversity will be the down fall of this country, one only has to look to history to see how it has lead to civil wars, genocide. Look at our city demographics, look at who we have allowed into the country illegally, look at how we have let refugees into this country who would not have come here otherwise and have no desire to assimilate. It's only a matter of time --the idea of a melting pot is long gone if it even existed.
     
  7. Kamp Krap

    Kamp Krap Monkey++

    There was a strong desire on the immigrants part to become an American and the American had a expectations that the immigrant would become and American. That all went away and somehow the Desire and Expectation part has been totally lost.
     
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  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    A Makarov won't save him...the knock on the door may be an RPG, or a poison pellet.
     
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  9. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Putin will have a medical issue and a grand state funeral I am sure. Just what induces the medical issue remains to be seen. Can’t be seen to be an assassination on the big world stage for a good number of political reasons.
     
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  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    What I have to say is horrible but... More Russians deaths in Ukraine need to happen to force the issue of Putin remaining in power. Also, real sanctions need to happen, that hits Russia from all angles hard. Those sanctions in place now are nothing more than inconveniences. Honestly! My wife has numerous relations in Russia and we both have lots of friends there. The sanctions have hurt the West more than Russia. Frankly, I think they were imposed for nothing but show. For example, Russian ammo. The sanction is ONLY against new import licenses. The thing that did hurt was the blowing up of their pipeline and the shift to purchasing Norway gas instead.

    Anyway, Ukraine needs to dig in deep and let the Russians come and die...but they won't. Russia is now simply waiting for the West to stop the aid. Once that dries up then it is simply a matter of time.
     
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  11. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    The Mothers and the widows along with a steady steam of body bags will not help Vlad


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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2023
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  12. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Vlad has been cunning in giving priority to drafting in recruits to top up his meatgrinder, by using manpower from economically depressed provincial regions, and non ethnic Russian sources. It will take large casualties coming from ethnic Russian metropolitan centres such as St Petersburg and Moscow etc. before the ethnic Russian economic serfs in general will revolt. We know what Russian soldiery are capable of when their 'leaders' fail them, and when they have nothing more to lose...perhaps another Menshevik revolution?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2023
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  13. Tempstar

    Tempstar Monkey+++

    Bandit99 for the win!
     
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