Hypothetical nuclear attack

Will it? Will an EMP melt power lines and start fires? I am sure it will in some cases but how good is our data on what will actually happen in a EMP strike? I think it is very, very sketchy and definitely not consistent. @3M-TA3 said, "An EMP is unlikely to damage vehicles..." and I am sure he can reference some report or document but is it accurate? Can we trust the source? What if the EMP was 2x stronger than what was tested? Also, we found during Covid that we can't even trust our medical community and they certainly were not in agreement on even common-sense things like face masks - let's not even talk about treatment. My point here is we cannot replicate an EMP strike for ourselves, so we rely upon data we are given which is very limited and the majority is theory.

Don't get me wrong, this is only food for thought, if we saw a lot of fires happening for no apparent reason then we certainly can come to the real conclusion when tied with other firsthand data: not only are the phones (land and mobile) out, but some of their facilities are also burning, not only is the internet down but my solar panels have stopped working...

My point here is we need to remember to be open minded because an event like this has never happened before so we will not be given a perfect check list. We must be like a Dr. House or Sherlock Holmes to get to the right conclusion because how quickly we react and react correctly could be, probably is, vital to survival. Did we get an EMP or a power spike?

@Wildbilly Good catch! "the lack of navigation lights on cell phone towers" is a very good indicator telling me that cell tower is without power that I can see from miles away and whatever happened has knocked out its generator too, more than 2-3 locations and it's a good bet that something real nasty like terrorism or EMP happened. Could it be something else like bad fuel delivered to all of them? Sure but until proved otherwise it would behoove one to act expecting the worse while hoping for the best. Again, good catch!

 

Homepage is the source. During their testing virtually no vehicles stopped running, and those that did started right up. I doubt an EMP at twice the strength would have much more of an effect. You would likely lose anything connected to an antenna, like your radio and navigation system. I still keep a set of paper maps in my vehicles.

I have read that the EMP C omission is planning to test newer vehicles, but they are even better shielded than previous vehicles. Still, they are more complex with more points of failure.

The concept of an EMP disabling all vehicles that don't run on a 1970's ignition system has been ingrained into us by the same dystopian fiction that also relies on on a protagonist that can take off with his AR and survive on his own without any other support while he shoots and otherwise fights off dozens of bad guys. These are basically modern versions of dime store novels with virtually nothing realistic in the plot.

Anyway, read the report and decide for yourself. You makes your choices and takes your chances...

 

There was a navy ship hit by an EMP and was dead in the water till it was brought back and those on board would not go out again.
IMO it is far better to be prepared for the worst-case scenario than hope for the best-case scenario.
I have to wonder if electric/hybrid cars have been EMP tested.

 

I'm in Hawaiian Paradise Park on the Big Island of Hawaii. I have 6 months of food already stored in several locations and I'm too far from any nuclear attack sites to be effected. My property borders a large swatch of state land and I have adequate practice trapping animals, a hand cranked radio, guille suits, thermal night vision, and a lot of other things in place including a small yurt stored near a fresh water source people can't get to. My plan is to scope out the outskirts of towns once in a while to determine how civilized people are being and if it's working out, I have a map with the location of a prospective phosphorous mine that will be required to get agriculture running. With a population of 200k people we shouldn't starve too quickly here. I suppose my plan is to survive first, then stabilize the island if people are willing to cooperate.

 

Glad to hear that you aren't on O'ahu, which is just one big target!

 

I'd like more information on that, perhaps it's somewhere in the EMP Commission report, but likely anything involving military capability would be classified. I did some Internet searches and only found speculation as opposed to even a rumor that it happened,

I could see some damage since USN ships are chock full of antennas. Navigation and radar, sonar, etc., could easily be damaged. "Dead in the water" would not necessarily mean they lost propulsion, but the ability to fulfill a mission. Depends on who defines what...

I do think that older vehicles have an advantage over newer ones in that they a long ways closer to stone age tech. You can make replacement parts with common tools, in many cases human powered ones. They are also designed for easier access to maintenance areas. You could never fabricate an integrated circuit during SHTF. Still, I see no evidence than an EMP would destroy a new vehicle.

The advantage of a newer vehicle is that they get better mileage, and in general require less maintenance. Gas availability will b e key here.

Yes, EMP devices are getting stronger, but you have to get MUCH more strong to have a bigger impact. Basically, when you double power you get a 3 dB increase in output.

To give you an ides of what that means, on a home HiFi system turning the volume knob enough that your ear detects a volume increase is 3 dB and a doubling of amplification power. On fancy ones that had detentes built in, those were typically 3 dB.

Unless you are talking a hundredfold increase in power it's unlikely a "super EMP" would cause much more damage.

 

Oh, so you have a problem with Southern California transplants too. So sorry. I feel your pain.
I used to make trips to Boise and Twin Falls for shopping about 20 years ago from tiny Elko, NV when I lived there. Didn't seem so bad then. Looked as if Twin Falls was mostly farm land so it's probably still OK.

Anyway, I'm kind of sitting on the fence between doing 'something' and oldawg's response. I'm closing in on 70 real fast, have a few things wrong, but nothing dire unless blood pressure meds run out and I always keep a year's supply on hand. After that they may not be available. Maybe the Jim Beam or Crown Royal remedy is the answer.

Have a BOL, very remote but it's 275 miles ENE of L.A. To run there in this scenario may be running directly into the fallout, although it would take 4 days to reach at 65 mile/day. There's food, well water from a DEEP well, sanitation, weapons and ammo and is defensible from marauders, but no fallout shelter. Whether or not the radiation cloud affected the area would depend on its size and if the wind had shifted a little north or south.

Home is about 15 miles as the crow flies from a large AF base. While not part of the initial strikes, it would certainly be on the list of those who've launched for subsequent strike (s).

Kind of strange, I've been researching fallout shelters for about the last two weeks. Don't know what suddenly piqued the interest. Now someone comes up with a hypothetical on nuclear strikes.

Great food for thought, though. A lot of variables. Be tough to cover them all.

 

EMP?

Richard Hammond struck by lightning in car - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube
multiple, direct hits of nearly 1M VAC. Several last for multiple seconds.

Car starts and drives off. EMP is like Nuclear Winter - a bogyman propagated by the KGB....

BTW - this same faculty tests grid level devices for different mfg outfits. Give it a thought - if EMP was such a killer, how is it FLA still has electric power? FLA get hit thousands of times a season, yet, it is still on line....

 

Yes and no. The Californian folks that come here to North Idaho have had a belly full of Leftist nonsense and won't tolerate it at all - even less than those that are Idaho natives. There's a reason they came here, and I guess they figured they ran away once and they damn well aren't putting up with the crap again. So, we get along just fine with those folks.

The problem is the ones that move down South to Boise and surrounding counties. There weren't running away from Leftists because they are Leftist and they came because land and cost of living is much cheaper here. Now, they try to turn everything to mimic Commiefornia but so far the folks here are staying pretty much ahead of them. I think we all learned what can happen watching Oregon turn Blue...no one wants that to happen here so everyone is quick to react - yet - I'd be lying if I said they haven't made some progress.

 

This was extremely interesting! Thanks!

@3M-TA3 "I have read that the EMP Commission is planning to test newer vehicles..."
I think DKR's video (above) pretty much proves cars will survive an EMP burst as it was directly hit numerous times by lighting... This was a relatively new vehicle too.

For those that are interested, attached is the Homeland Security EMP Report (2021) file and its link is below. I haven't gotten through it yet.
CTA-Revised-2-14-2021.pdf (emptaskforce.us)


Also, here is the link and file for the EMP Commission Report. It's a bit dated (2004) but might have something of value. I pulled down the executive summary... I assume that Homeland Security took over this function which why it's a bit dated.
Reports | EMPCommission.org

I am still going through the Executive Summary...

 

EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com

"Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response."

 

Mahalo! Yes, it's one of the reasons why I chose the Big Island over Oahu or even Maui.

 

Dang I learn a lot of interesting stuff on this site.

 

I am currently well away from the targets in the scenario. I would be on my way to work where I would be preparing one of the last five or six meals on hand to feed the residents of the memory care facility that employs me. In a case like this, I have my doubts that food deliveries would continue.
Many of the residents' families are indifferent in the best of times. It's a terrible spot to be in. Do I soldier on? Or turn my back on the ugly futile future these folks a sure to face.
The facility has zero back up supplies, and while there is a generator, I believe it is fed from the gas utility. Hiw long will that last? Will the other care givers flee? Will their relief show up for the next shift?

 

Since starting this thread I have presented it to non-Monkey friends. None have a clue how we would find out what happened, and not one thinks they are likely to survive the thirty day mark because of the violence of others. One point that was brought up was the drugs so many people take for mental disorders and what happens when those run out. Also, with no power and no deliveries, what happens to the jails and prisons? Do they let them out? Probably.