Thanks to @Bandit99 for bringing this topic up as I think it should be discussed further with out clouding up other threads! So, we have 26 states challenging the ATF's new "Final Rule" which is clearly a major step for the Biden administration to be taking, and with the agencies Deference I.E. making rules with penalties outside the power of congress, we have a MAJOR issue here! So, what does the future look like for them? Lemme break down what I am seeing and where I think things are going. 1) there are a few BIG cases directly challenging the ATF's authority,' but what even bigger, there are a couple of cases that bring to question the legality of said agencies existence. 2) with states challenging the Agencies authority, there is a hell of a lot more teeth to the suits then just the suits, STATES have the right to block unconstitutnal law, as we now see from Montana and a few other states are queing up to join in on that party, namely Texas and Florida, but I suspect the 26 states currently sueing the ATF will simply join Montana in dirrect conflict with both the ATF and Merric Garland at the DOJ! 3) the ATF in it's current form and under current leadership has a major problem, and it's ripe for the courts to destroy it, largely due to the recent ruling in New York State Rifle Vs Bruen, in that the ATF cannot just make shit up and then have serious penalties, but what will really tear them apart is the West Virginia vs EPA Ruling which shows that SCOTUS is primed to strike down cases of Chevron Deference, which brings us back full circle to where we started! If we apply the new "Test" of Bruen and Chevron Deference, along with a big helping of the other B.o.R's the ATF's days are numbered! First, the case against them by FRT ( that's the forced reset triggers) which specifically calls out the legal authority for the ATF's very existence, remember, the ATF was created in the late 20's to tax and regulate alcohol and tobacco, and with the National Firearms Act of 1934, the Addition of Firearms was added to what was an agency under the Dep. of Treasury! Legally, Congress granted authority, but was then subverted when the agency was transferred over to the newly created I.R.S. and they assumed more powers and authority outside the preview of congress. And it kept growing and gaining more power and authority! Fast forward to the Gun Control Act of 1968 and we had a MASSIVE increase in their powers, so much so that the Firearm owners protection act was passed to limit some of that power grab, and keep in mind, this all happened outside congressional authority ( Deference) So here we are, an rogue agency making shit up as they go along, and by creating their new rules, have effectively turned a shit load of citizens into felons over night, and here we have the second part of their ending! By Applying Deference to their illegal expansion of powers and the leadership from both the agency it's self and the DOJ, we have the perfect storm to destroy this agency for good! They Absolutely WILL loose their case against FRT triggers, and the only question is what the Judge decides ( Which will be appealed to SCOTUS, and we then see what SCOTUS makes of it all) second, the cases against them in their frames and receivers rules, which they will also loose, see above, and finally the states challenges of this newest ruling from the ATF on Braces and SBR's which not only demand a SCOTUS ruling, but, the states themselves can block the ATF completely, as TEXAS is already doing with it's made in Texas Suppressors suit! All in all, I see the ATF destroyed, or so stripped of it's powers that we never hear of them again except for bad memories!
Problem is, the ATF doesn't care. It's not their money that is being used to fight the legal cases it's ours. We are actually paying for ATF and all of the other bureaucratic divisions/agencies/blah blah blah, to defend their arbitrary rules in court with our tax dollars. They have an unlimited budget and can fight all the way up to the supreme court. No skin off their nose if they lose .. it wasn't their money and they don't have to pay it back nor pay legal fees of winning side. No one is going to lose their job because they are federal employees just following the rules as instructed. Yep, perfect system for them. Sucks to be us. They can drag stuff out for years if not decades. And the politicians like it as well.
Also remember the BumpStock ruling recently handed down by the Federal 5th Circuit Court of Appeals iRuling… THIS IS THE “ Handwriting on the Wall” for ATF, and they and the DOJ knows it.. The Appeals Courts in both NewYork (2nd) and West Coast (9th) have had their Rulings reversed, and sent back down to those Circuit Courts of Appeals for re-adjudication, specially with regard to the Bruen Precedent, will then create Rulings that ATF can not survive with… The Appeals Courts are now sitting on these cases and other “BombShell” cases, hoping that they just go away, but they will be forced to rule, or have SCOTUS Rule for them, which would be disastrous for the Government, as the rulings would become nation wide, and “Law of the Land” as Bruen is…
YES! YES! YES! THIS is what burns me the most! They can fight it until the cows come home and it's no skin off their nose, none. Hell, they do not even have to worry about losing their jobs as federal employees. They are untouchable unless the Congress acts. It seems to me, that if Congress was wise and wanted to make an example of them and at same time put the fear of God into all the others agencies, they would vote to simply dissolve the agency. Sounds radical but makes a lot of sense (which is why they won't do it). The problem is there are Bills (NFA, etc.) out there that need to be enforced so either a different agency would pick up the slack or they would need to get rid of the Bills...which they would never do. Nevertheless, I think Congress is finally realizing that. "Hey! We're not in charge anymore?!?" and they need to act in a big way.
The bureaucrats run the show in DC. doesn't matter who's in the big chair, nor the 535 other chairs. They will be there after the next regime change and the one after that. they've carved out their fiefdoms and rule the world. Kinda like a HOA but instead of neighborhood power .. they have national and in some cases international reach. Good luck.
Which is why I say Congress should dissolve it. Don't get me wrong, VT, I know they won't but by doing so it would shift the power and upset the apple cart. It will cause tremors throughout the bureaucracy because you not only got into someone's rice bowl, you took it away from them and handed it to someone else. I'm dreaming here but it's a real solution..
Here's a "What If", suppose the SCOTUS rules against the ATF and decides they have no more power to regulate/enforce Gun Laws! What happens to those gun laws still on the books? More importantly, it seems these legal challenges will be striking down major parts of the ATF's kingdom, things like the NFA and all that covers, the Gun Control Act, and by and large, any/all so called assault weapons bans in the works! Basically stripping ALL infringements away and leaving only rules/laws that pass constitutnal muster! It's going to take time, but even congress cannot stop the SCOTUS rulings that will be coming down, no matter how they slice it, the ATF is dust in the wind! So, who takes over what's left? My guess would be the FBI, and what ever remains of Firearm Regulation passes off to them. Looks to be a brave new world with the ATF gone and all the laws/rules overturned and Congress unable to square any laws or infringements against the Bruen rules!
The FBI is the conclusion I came to also but, of course, it's going from the frying pan into the fire and giving more power to an agency that is also shown the deepest levels of corruption, more so than even the ATF so I would hope they would be careful here. The FBI must also be reined in and hard which I think is also going to happen probably first by funding cuts and appointments and deals to see early retirement. I don't think the higher courts would simply toss aside all the laws and regulations but would probably put a time constraint on either eliminating them or making them legal by Congress. Remember the NFA was a Bill written and voted into law by Congress, so exactly whatever is in that Bill is legal, but the ATF goes far outside those Bills with their regulation...unless the court interrupts the NFA it goes outside the Constitution but that is not the case here, the ATF exceeding their charter is. One thing for certain, the ATF and its illegal regulations are in trouble and they are not getting out of this without missing some teeth, hopefully a lot of them.
the BATFE does way more than dick around with firearms laws/regs. They also deal with alcohol, Tabacco, arson and explosives. they are like the catchall for the DOJ and if you ain't paying the taxes or playing by their rules ... dey, gonna shoot ya dog! and then take you to jail. they are like a spider. threaded into everything sin based and/or fun based. I'm surprised they don't propose taxes on condoms and then go out and create rules that says if you are using a magnum, you gotta pay a stretch tax. Congress can't get rid of DOJ/ATF/DEA .. it's not under their purview. It's part of the executive branch ... which means ... the president. And your boy Trump didn't reign them in. Nor did your boy Biden. They actually got worse under both. Actually, they get worse every year. Oh well, it's not like the president is going to disband their brown shirt army. Congress can pass laws, the DOJ can enforce the laws and the supreme court can decide, if someone can afford to get a complaint/lawsuit all the way up to them, whether or not the law/rule is constitutional. Yep, not in our lifetimes is this going to whole scale change. Might get some small victories but mostly, the run around and more taxes to pay for the fight. EDIT: I forgot to mention, this is on the federal level, our states have basically the same structure and can create their own f'ed up laws/rules that have to go through the same bullshit to roll back or uphold.
Can POTUS just write an Executive Order and recreate another organization just like the ATF (with their employees) if SCOTUS were to neuter ATF via an adverse ruling? I am sure someone would try an end run if one isn't already in the works.
