U.S. government tells Americans to get out now ahead of Ukrainian independence day

The US has lost the ILLEGAL PROXY WAR IN UKRAINE. They are telling people to get out now that China is doing drills with the Russians. Since Russia was able to win here it seems China will now try to take Taiwan... and probably succeed now that they know their bribes of Biden worked and he is useless. How did Ukraine go? How did Afghanistan go? Now we still haven't reached their $650billion dollar sink hole goals yet so they will keep sending stuff. Now that is $2000 from every single man woman and child in the country but it also devalues the dollars so that they buy less. How much CV relief did they send every man woman and child? I'm still waiting on mine. This is massive theft from our children and nobody cares. If I robbed your kids and took $100 I could be shot and killed. When the fedgov takes thousands right out of their pockets nobody bats an eyelash.

U.S. government tells Americans to get out now ahead of Ukrainian independence day

Just How Much Money Is The Russia-Ukraine War Costing Americans?

 

Taiwan goes we can't be that far behind when the dollar crashes and is no longer an accepted currency world wide. What happens when we can't pay the debt these ass clowns in Washington have stolen from my children --their children and so on. I can't think of one country in history that has amassed the debt we have an survived without a civil war or coup.

 

Some would say to just ignore the debt, and whoever loaned the money to us is screwed. Sounds real smart until you need money again.

 

That's why we "Need" 86,000 new armed IRS agents! You and I WILL pay our taxes or they will shoot us and the dogs!

 

I don't think Biden will do a damn thing for Taiwan. Biden is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by the Chinese so he won't do a damn thing. Biden game is to continue to weaken the USA financially and morally until he is dethroned, or they assume complete power. He stops oil and gas production to hurt the economy at every level. He opens the border to add chaos and to act as smoke screen to his other endeavors. He passes major spending Bills and even illegally forgive Student Loan debt to fuel inflation for more economic pain and chaos. Every move he has made and will make in the future is to weaken the USA. And, yes, there is major increase in tax coming, as such, they must have an Army of IRS agents committed to them, not to the nation and its people. Civil war? I don't think they want it to go that way but if it does then so be it as it helps the cause of weakening the USA.

@ enloopious But, I don't understand why you say, "The US has lost the ILLEGAL PROXY WAR IN UKRAINE." How is it illegal and lost? The US is giving weapons as are other Western countries and the Ukraine hasn't lost so... Please, be specific. Honestly, of all the crap our country throws money away on (Afghanistan, the UN, Student loans, etc...) I think this is a noble endeavor, especially since the Ukrainians have proven they are willing to fight for their freedom...unlike the Vietnamese or Afghans. I get it that Biden (and Congress) is probably doing so ONLY to line his own pocket - hell - probably plays right into the Chinese playbook for us to do so (drives us deeper in debt) and they TOLD him to support the war; however, Ukraine is not asking for our blood just the weapons to defend themselves, much like the UK in the early days of WW2 so...so, yeah, I'm okay with it. Hell, give them MORE! Give them the $300 Billion from the Student Loans. LOL!

And, yes, I know my opinion on this is not a popular one, but I truly believe it is the right and honorable thing to do. If the Ukrainian people didn't want to fight or give up, then it would be different but right now they are fighting tooth and nail to keep their country, so I am okay helping them. I was against staying in Afghanistan all those years (for what?) but this is totally different, and it is a just cause.

 

The US dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the American People. We the people loaned that money to our government at the expense of our children. Most of us did so unwillingly. By us not holding the government accountable we take our children's futures and donate them to places like Ukraine. I hope all of the morons that sent money and support to Ukraine like them more than their own posterity.

 

Congress has not approved a war in a long time. They are the only ones authorized in the Constitution to do so. A president can not declare war. It is lost because there is no chance of US winning. The war has been going on for hundreds of years. Since before the US. Since before Katherine the Great. I posted a really good documentary about this in another thread. You should check it out.

There are a lot of news stories of leaders in Ukraine taking money and leaving the country. When your children starve to death you will probably want that $300 billion back... but guess what. It wont be coming.

Observe good faith and justice toward all nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all. ... In the execution of such a plan nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur.So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld; and it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country without odium, sometimes even with popularity, gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. But that jealousy, to be useful, must be impartial, else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests.The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. ...Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand, neither seeking nor granting exclusive favors or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing with powers so disposed, in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of our merchants, and to enable the Government to support them, conventional rules of intercourse, the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit, but temporary and liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied as experience and circumstances shall dictate; constantly keeping in view that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favors from another; that it must pay with a portion of its independence for whatever it may accept under that character; that by such acceptance it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard. -George Washington

 

@enloopious I think we will have to agree to disagree. However, since I asked, and you took the time to answer then I will also take the time to give my two cents...

Yes, I do realize that by giving this money to Ukraine we will not have it for ourselves and let's be frank, we are giving it to them because they will never be able to repay us, at least not dollars; however, sometimes the right thing to do is seldom the easy thing to do and normally always has a cost. This is right. I am totally, 100%, know it in my heart it is the right thing to do. Yes, there is corruption happening and more than likely the BIGGEST corruption is happening on this side of the pond, probably right in the White House.

It sounds like you desire us to be neutral in this war, treat both sides equally which in a normal scenario, I would totally agree; however, Putin broke the Budapest Accords (1994) (among other things) which his nation signed and invaded under some phony justification but even so IF the Ukrainian people showed the least bit desire to join Russia, welcoming them, then I would reverse myself immediately; however, on the contrary, they have showed nothing but determined resistance and drives me to be supportive and proud to do so. To follow Washington's letter (above) and treat both equally would mean nothing more than handing the Ukraine over to them because they would not be able to defend themselves. This is not an argument for equal treatment but an argument more equal to Russia. It is the same bad logic that some people make when they say, "I don't like any of the Republican candidates so I'm not voting!" for by doing so, you have given the Democrat candidate and/or person you wish to vote against, your vote.

Now, on this forum, many has heard me sing the praises of Putin prior to this Stalin-like take over. Yeah, I really believed in him and regret my many words. I still believe he will go down in Russian history as one of its most famous individuals, but he has gone too far in this, much too far and most Russians are beginning to understand this.

Most here know, I am married to an ethnic Russian. She is in fact, half-Russian (mother) and half-Ukrainian (father), speaks fluent Russian but is pretty good in Ukrainian also. I say this to show that we do have direct insight to what is happening there, Ukraine and Russia, via her relations and our church (Russian Orthodox). Our close Ukrainian friends just got their niece, husband, and child out of Ukraine (Mariupol refugees) and is living with them now in Spokane, Wa. All the Ukrainians that I know and/or speak to are supportive of the war effort and appreciative or what America and others are doing for them. The Russians don't say much for very obvious reasons, but now, after these bloody months and the truth is coming out, more and more are showing signs of complete embarrassment along with the sorrow because they know, win or lose, the world considers them to be like the communists and nazis of old and this time that stigma will not be brush away so lightly. It will be theirs for generations, pariahs for generations.

Anyway, I am sorry as we are normally in agreement; however, in this policy I am rock solid in my conviction. Yes, we might go hungry to put another bullet in a Ukrainian rifle but at the very least I know they are putting it to good use...unlike how most our money is misspent and used so I am okay with it. I am an American. I believe in freedom, not just for me and mine but for all and if I go hungry - well - that's a good reason so I consider the money well spent. Freedom isn't cheap and sure as hell isn't free.

 

Yeah I'm not saying stupid shit because I want to start a fight. I am pointing out the way I see things and honestly curious why others don't see them that way.

Putin broke the Budapest accords because that was the only thing they could do. Russia and NATO had a treaty and they were not supposed to put a single NATO member nation after WW2 on Russian borders. That was the agreement that we had with them but it has happened over and over again. Ukraine and Belarus would put NATO within striking distance of Moscow. That is a national security threat to Russia, similar to Russia putting nukes in Canada or Mexico, that NATO promised they would NEVER DO. As early as 1952 they added Greece and Turkey breaking the treaty. Then in 1955 they added Germany. In 82 they added Spain and in the 90s they added Czech, Poland, and Hungary. Since 2004 they have added 11 other countries many of them bordering Russia. NATO and the supporting states have violated that treaty over and over again many times before Russia felt that this was their only option. There are DAVOS videos saying that Russia must fall for their plans of a one world government dictatorship to succeed. Supporting the war in Ukraine is supporting that one world dictatorship where people like Schwab and Soros and their ilk rule us as slaves. That is seriously what you want? It sounds like you may have a personal bias in the matter. If you only look at the past 2 years, yeah Russia invaded Ukraine. If you look at the whole history of it we provoked the whole thing by bullying the world and not even for a good reason. What was the reason? Because we did such an awesome job in Afghanistan? We are not heroes. The US isn't the knight in shiny armor running to save little oppressed countries from tyrants. We come in, kill everyone, destabilize the government, steal the resources, get the people to rebel, and sell the country to the elite. Now compare that to when we had to convince the Japs to bomb Pearl Harbor just so we could get enough public support to join ww2. NATO violated its agreement first and many times.

NATO | Founders, History, Purpose, Countries, Map, & Facts

 

Enloopoius, I will respond specifically to each question and comment as think this is the best way...even though it is quite long.

"I'm not saying stupid shit because I want to start a fight. I am pointing out the way I see things and honestly curious why others don't see them that way."
I understand and I also am trying to convey not only how I see this but why I see it this way.

"Russia and NATO had a treaty...to supposed to put a single NATO member nation after WW2 on Russian borders."
I have heard of this, mostly from Putin's rantings; however, I have never been able to find this agreement. Do you have it?

"Ukraine and Belarus would put NATO within striking distance of Moscow. That is a national security threat to Russia, similar to Russia putting nukes in Canada or Mexico..."
This is also what Putin used as justification; however, I do admit due to the plain-like terrain this would make an attacking army's approach much easier...if we were not in the 21st century and/or lacked nuclear weapons. The fact is not only does Russia have nuclear weapons, but they have hypersonic nuclear delivery systems so if that army is in the fields of Germany or Ukraine there isn't much difference. Russia is a nuclear capable power, and that fact alone would detour any invasion be it from Germany, Ukraine, Japan or even Timbuctoo, . Those days are gone...except in the minds of old Soviets.

"NATO and the supporting states have violated that treaty over and over again many times before Russia felt that this was their only option."
As stated, I cannot find this agreement. Is this in fact a documented agreement? As far as only option, rubbish! Did he take his case to the United Nations? He didn't that I know of... He swooped into the Crimean via devious means when it became clear that the old President was out, and Ukraine wanted to join the EU and from that day forward has planted the seeds of invasion. Why? I think the main reasons are more about the discovery of 3 large deposits of Natural Gas in the Ukraine (2 of which in Russian Crimea control) and energy sources becoming more and more weaponized (certainly by Putin) and Ukraine agricultural output but that's my opinion.

"There are DAVOS videos saying that Russia must fall for their plans of a one world government dictatorship to succeed...like Schwab and Soros and their ilk rule us as slaves. That is seriously what you want?"
No, I am not aware of these videos stating such things and I will take your question as simply be rhetorically. I see how the two could be connected; nevertheless, Russia invaded a sovereign country for reasons that certainly don't seem justifiable to me and most of the rest of the world. They have invaded and destroyed this country for no just reason/cause. I would have you note that they did the exact same thing to Georgia under some other very dubious justifications, destroyed the entire country's infrastructure within a month, except there the world didn't give a damn.

"It sounds like you may have a personal bias in the matter."
Nope. I have no personal bias at all and if I did it would be simply black and white and right and wrong and anyway you color this Russia is in the wrong. Their diplomacy, their threats, their actions... This could have been handled in a hundred different ways but they chose to use the old tried and true Russia policy of 'might makes right', annex the little country which they have used numerous times throughout history and got away with it. Like I said, if the people of Ukraine said they wanted to become part of Russia, a puppet, then I would support that, but they have not budged an inch on their resistance.

"If you look at the whole history of it we provoked the whole thing by bullying the world and not even for a good reason. What was the reason? Because we did such an awesome job in Afghanistan? We are not heroes."
Provoked it? How? Why? Because we allowed countries to join NATO so they could feel safe from the Russian bear? A Russia that has shown with these actions that it will do as it pleases, when it pleases, regardless of circumstances? Finland and Sweden finally joining NATO proved what those other countries knew that joined previously: 1. you can't trust Russia 2. there is safety in numbers. I mean, why do they want to join NATO? Perhaps Russia needs to ask themselves that... As far as Afghanistan and being heroes? No and no. In fact, far from it. In fact, if I had my way, we would have been out of Afghanistan long ago, at the very least, definitely the day after Osama was killed.

"The US isn't the knight in shiny armor running to save little oppressed countries from tyrants. We come in, kill everyone, destabilize the government, steal the resources, get the people to rebel, and sell the country to the elite. Now compare that to when we had to convince the Japs to bomb Pearl Harbor just so we could get enough public support to join ww2."
Don't get me wrong I am not saying we are the 'good guys.' Hell, no! Most everything a country does, no matter what country, it is for a reason, normally a monetary reason. The reason might be resources, trade, a vote, better relations, etc. but there is always a hard, cold reason and it is seldom altruistic. Yes, I have talked, even on this forum, of how FDR basically pushed Japan into war by cutting off the oil (embargo) to fuel their military while they were in a war with China. So, I am not saying we are the good guys but we did not force Russia into doing something this horrific.

"NATO violated its agreement first and many times."
We need to find this agreement before we can consider and discuss this. What agreement so we all can read it? I referenced the Budapest Agreement (1994) which Russia, USA and UK most definitely signed safeguarding and respecting the borders of the Ukraine and others. This document alone shows Russia broke the agreement and is in the wrong. Let's face it, Putin's old song and dance of protecting Russians that they used in South Ossetia, Georgia, Crimea and again now in Ukraine is getting worn thin. "Oh yes, the Ukraine is full of Nazis!" I have heard that nonsense...there's more Nazis in the USA. They threw this and the NATO tripe against the wall hoping it would stick. It hasn't. They thought, like Georgia, it would take but a month before the Ukraine would fall in their lap, so they really didn't care because after victory and it's a fait accompli who gives a damn what the Western history books says.

Anyway, my reasoning for feeling so strongly about this is simple: because it's wrong. That's the short and long of it. Most of the time, we do the wrong thing in politics or diplomacy, but this time we're on the right. Putin has lied to the Russian people, the Ukrainians, and the world. I doubt we will ever truly know his real reasons, but we do know his actions and they are wrong. As far as our own actions, I admit they are not pristine; however, to say we force Russia into invading Ukraine is simply not true. We did not cause this. Putin caused this by his actions and the Russians caused this by supporting him.

 

I didn't hear it from Putin. Putin is an asshole and insinuating that I favor him some how is insulting.

Its the North Atlantic Treaty also called the Washington Treaty but regardless its just obvious. You think Ukraine is the underdog and Russia is huge but I see Russia as the underdog and NATO as huge. The sweeping force of NATO, the WEF, and the UN is the real threat to all of us.

No they actually said to have a one world order Russia must be taken out because they would never submit to NWO authority. It is on the UN sec gen's website. They said they needed a reason for people to be sympathetic and support a war to destroy Russia. One thing is for certain, if the rest of the world is against Russia then you should take a serious look into why. The majority is usually wrong about every issue.

Actually Russia and Ukraine agreed to a peace treaty at the very beginning and Boris Johnson traveled there to make sure that didn't happen. Are you hearing what I'm saying? The NWO MUST have Russia fall to have a one world gov. Do you think our collective representatives aren't corrupt?

Again, Russia and Ukraine both agreed to a peace treaty and the collective sold out heads of state made sure that didn't happen. I'm sure the TV told you a different story but its not true.

Geez where to begin.

Your reasoning is flawed. Because it is wrong is not a good reason and not something that we should all be forced into supporting. That is not what we are supposed to be about. It is destroying our country. We will be feeling this for years and our children will starve to death... and yet Putin's country is prospering. They are selling oil to China who is selling it to Europe. There is just soo much about this that is fubar. Don't you remember both Russia and Ukraine asking for a peace treaty? Can't you smell something rotten all the way to Denmark?

I've seen all of them say these things out of their own mouths. Maybe everyone else forgets but I don't. The North Atlantic Treaty is what people call it. Its also called the Washington Agreement but you may find that hard to locate. When WW2 ended all of this was set up with NATO and all of the countries involved in the war. I have been watching it change for years. I have been posting on these forums how the UN and NATO (and others) are being used to put the unelected NWO in power and control of all of us but everyone just brushes it off.

 

@enloopious I appreciate you taking the time to write up your thoughts on this and to comment on mine.

Regarding NWO, I do see where you are coming from and how Russia must fall in order for it to achieve its goal; however, I never heard of this before because I don't follow that stuff very much as its too difficult to obtain hard facts until, unfortunately, it's too late. However, it does make sense.

No, I heard of no peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine that was derailed by Boris Johnson. Of course, I heard of talks, not sure you could call them negotiations, but no agreements. I would guess that Boris told Ukraine, "The UK and USA will support you" which probably gave them the necessary courage to deny Russia for without it...there wouldn't be any war, just surrender (Russia done annexation numerous times throughout history). I guess you could say the same thing happen in 1939 with Poland as they were ready to cave to Germany's demands concern Danzig until France and the UK said they would stand with them. The rest is history and Poland got the shaft in the end anyway.

I believe we are looking at this problem in two different ways. You are looking at it in the grand scheme, the big picture. I am not. The reason I am not simply is due to available facts. I do not know if the NWO intent is use this conflict to ruin Russia, while it sounds reasonable, even logical, there is no hard facts. However, we do know Russian did indeed invade the Ukraine and is laying waste to the entire country. Putin says he did this to protect his country due to NATO expansion, but all know the 21st century with cyber warfare and nuclear deterrent that borders have very little meaning. For example, the dismantling of Iran's nuclear program via StuxNet or the attack on the Saudi oil fields via drones and cyber. Is that warfare? You bet your ass it was! Both were direct attacks on a nation and its people as clear as Russian tanks rolling across Ukraine.

"Your reasoning is flawed. Because it is wrong is not a good reason and not something that we should all be forced into supporting. That is not what we are supposed to be about..."
Of course, this is your opinion. In my opinion, Putin invaded a sovereign country and continues to lay waste to it and its people making it damn hard to understand your reasoning unless one takes into account the assumption this is the NWO plan. We are to disregard the killing of a nation and its people and allow them to be forced into servitude because of some assumed grander scheme... No, this doesn't make sense to me, and I cannot do it. Frankly, even if the assumption is correct and it's playing into the NWO plans, I believe it is still a necessary risk. Why? Plans can be changed, derailed, postponed, or stopped for a number of reasons, by the point of a rifle if necessary. Furthermore, helping other countries obtain and keep their freedom is EXACTLY what this country is about - well - it is supposed to be but most the time we don't do the right thing or don't do it well. This time, we are doing the right thing.

I believe we will have to continue to agree to disagree on this subject. I do acknowledge that it's unfortunate that you are being "forced into supporting" something that you feel so strongly against; however, that goes with being a part of something bigger than oneself, a citizen of a country.

 

You should watch the video I posted. Boris told Zelensky that the US and UK would NOT support peace in Ukraine and Russia. Nobody remembers when this happened even though it was all over the news. He told them that we were going to give them all kinds of money and weapons to keep fighting and let their people die. If they refused he threatened to pull out all support and money. I remember 3 times they were ready to sign for peace and other countries went in and stopped it.

 

Lets also not forget that supporting Ukraine is the same as killing Americans. Biden's address was a message that we all better get ready to starve to death. He said the cost was worth it. Once people get really hungry they will start the killing. As complaining increases so will killings. Having my children starve to death and living in the Gulags is NOT a price I am willing to pay so I can feel good about a country I don't know. I have never been there. I have no plans of ever going there and I will never be willing to sacrifice my children for them. I do not support the Ukraine war just as I didn't support Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, or any of the other thousands of places our corrupt government is willing to destroy. All of those wars have led us to this place we are now at.

 

The Germans (70%) want there to be peace talks with Ukraine and Russia, meanwhile, their government refused to support peace talks, said Putin must die, and have started pushing for nuclear war. Remember when I told you that Russian independence is one of the biggest threats to the NWO? It keeps getting more obvious.

German Air Force chief calls for the use of nuclear weapons against Russia