Original “Assault Weapon” of the American Revolution era?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by BTPost, May 7, 2022.


  1. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I was reading some Grabber Propaganda this evening, and this self-appointed” X-Spurt was saying that the original “Assault Rifle was pictured above” and they Pictured a 1790 era recreation of a Pennsylvania .50 FlintLock Hawkin… That got me thinking… Seems to me that what was the actual Revolutionary War era “Assault Weapon” wasn’t even a Rifle, but a British Smooth Bore .80 Cal Brown Bess Musket…. Please corect me, If I got this wrong…
     
  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Nope, I think you are right. Now the Pennsylvania long rifle may have been the sniper rifle of the time. But both were in general military use and state of the art war weapons of the time.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
  3. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    NOPE!
    I Give you the REAL DEAL Assault Rifle, the M-1855 Colt Revolving Rifle, Standard U.S. Army issue in .44 Caliber, 6 shots of 250 grain Conical loaded over 57 grains FFg, for 1880 FPS! Effective range out to 600+yards, dependent on the shooter! Colt made two variants for the Union Army, a Full length Musket and a Cavalry Carbine (Rifle) both with Bayonet! The Savvy Militia man would Custom order him self a Frontiers Carbine, caliber .50 or .54 ( Up to .68 caliber) and would generally load a 465 grain conical over 74 grains FFg for 2000 FPS and effective range to 800+Meters! Combined totals varied depending on source, but it's generally acknowledged to be in the neighborhood of 40,000 of all variants produced in Colts Factory, The rifles were also license built in 22 other countries, some ( Spain) shipping them to the Southern states for use against the Union, generally accepted numbers were around 6,000 supplied to the southern states Militias!

    These Colts were much loved by those who understood the unique attributes these Colts had, while general troops and Militia hated them, they were messy, hard to clean, and following the "Official" Manual of loading, quite dangerous! However, in the hands of a skilled shooter who figured out the Army was stupid, and found the correct loading method, he and his rifle became a fearsome foe!

    Here is a First Series Musket as issued ( Not mine, I don't have a musket in any variant)
    [​IMG]
    Here is the vastly more popular Cav. Rifle! ( Not mine, but almost identical to one of mine)
    [​IMG]
    My Baby, a MK-IV Frontiers Carbine, .50 caliber and it retains the original side oiler, SN 426!
    [​IMG]
    The savvy Shooter had a selection of Bullet Molds and hand tools to make his custom projectiles, usually having trimming and shaping tool extensions of the mold it's self ( Colt's #15 Mold, and some times the lighter Colts # 9) , combined with the proper powders, these were unbeatable, even against more more modern metallic cartridge rifles! Sadly, they were passed over pretty quickly after the war, sales were still pretty brisk, but demand dropped to nothing after the Metallic cartridges came on the scene! Still, the Savvy Hunter often preferred the Colt for it's greater range and custom loading options!
     
  4. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    th (2).
    This was a pretty nasty assault weapon in 1776.

    Loaded with grapeshot it was a "spray and pray" weapon. A "privately owned" swivel cannon.

    Along with muskets and great strategy it ended British control in North Carolina.
     
  5. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    NOPE! These are "four score and ten years" too late!
     
  6. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

    "Brown Bess" .. .. 0.75 cal .. .. 1722 to 1838 [ in British Service ] smoothbore flintlock Musket


    Charleville Model 1763 and 1766 .. .. 0.69 cal [ originally 1717 .. .. 1763 - 1840 plus 1766 - 1840 ] French infantry musket [ smoothbore ]

    "Pennsylvania Rifles" was used by snipers, plus later by companies of riflemen dey required companies armed with muskets plus artillery fer support .. .. or da riflemen would get overrun .. ..

    dere wuz no Assault Rifles in 1775 .. .. da term Assault Rifle wuz used in da 1940s fer da StG 44 [ designed 1938–1943 ] aka MP43 aka MP44 produced 1943-1945 .. ..

    da German StG 44 wuz da first assault rifle ta see major usage .. .. later followed by the rooskie Ak47 [ 1948 - present ]
     
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Assault rifle in the mid 1700's to mid 1800's then must have been 100 men carrying single shot muzzle loaders firing in a staged rotation... A group of assault riflemen.

    [​IMG]
     
    Gator 45/70 and Seawolf1090 like this.
  8. CraftyMofo

    CraftyMofo Monkey+++

    M2 Carbine? 1944
     
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  9. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    Bess. .690 round ball and Buck and Ball loads at 25 yards. Ouch!

    Keep in mind that unless the shot was high or hit something solid enough to stop it, that nearly 500 grain round ball is pretty nasty even if poorly aimed. It could bounce off the deck and still have enough energy to remove an arm or smash a leg to pieces. Looking at the way battles were fought at the time, with massed forces facing each other at reasonably close range it's a wonder anybody survived to tell about it.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2022
    SB21, Dannyboy53, Gator 45/70 and 2 others like this.
  10. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Everyone is operating in the belief that EVERY firearm of the civil war or before, IS an Assault Weapon, but forgetting the actual meaning of that term! Define why you think a Brown Bess is an assault weapon, or why a Sharps would qualify! Under the specific terms, only the M-1855 qualifies!
     
    SB21, Gator 45/70 and Dunerunner like this.
  11. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

    nope

    "the M1 and M2 carbines are under-powered and outclassed" [ compared ta da StG44 plus Ak47 ] dey "fall somewhere between an SMG and Assault rifle" .. .. dey is neither .. ..
     
    Gator 45/70 and Dunerunner like this.
  12. CraftyMofo

    CraftyMofo Monkey+++

    Might be underpowered/outclassed, but used by our forces all the way up to the Vietnam period. Used by others for a bit longer.
    Certainly not purpose-built to be an "sturmgewehr", but was adapted to fill the role.
     
    Gator 45/70 and Dunerunner like this.
  13. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

    [chopper]

    musketmen is a more accurate term .. ..

    da muskets become pikes when dey is empty .. .. dat is why bayonets wuz reel important at dat time .. ..
     
    Gator 45/70 and Dunerunner like this.
  14. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    I think we are, mostly; making light of some media jerkoff calling a flintlock an assault rifle. Then, concluding that since said flintlock was the state of the art for the military of the time, simply anything the military has now should be available to the general population. Without question, an armed population has to be respected and an unarmed population is a nation of slaves.
     
  15. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    I'd have no issue making war with one of these old Colts! It ain't the tool, it's the ability to use it in anger that counts!
     
    Gator 45/70 and Dunerunner like this.
  16. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Mathew Quigley... "Said I didn't have much use for one. Didn't say I didn't know how to use one!"
     
  17. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    What the gun grabbers like to point out is that when the U.S. Constitution and the 2nd Amendment were written "arms" were smooth bore muskets and a few rifles. They say that the only "arms" protected by the 2nd Amendment are those that existed when it was written...single-shot muzzle-loaders. If that was the case Blacks would still be slaves, Indians would be targets, Women would not have the right to vote, and Freedom of the Press would only apply to the printed word! The Constitution establishes ground rules upon which we have built. It has evolved, sometimes not for the best, and will continue to do so.
    The Brown Bess and Charleville smooth bore muskets and the Pennsylvania rifle were state-of-the-art military weapons of the day and as such could be loosely termed "assault weapons" of that age. However, the current definition is a selective fire weapon with a detachable magazine and firing a "rifle" bullet!
     
  18. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    I rather think "assault" is verb, describing an action. ANY weapon, any object even, can be used to assault a person. Even one's hand can be an "assault weapon".
     
    sec_monkey, Gator 45/70 and OldDude49 like this.
  19. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    True, and for ancient man sticks and stones were assault weapons!
     
  20. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I think the term ''assault rifle' 'is a fairly new copulation of words to scare you into thinking guns are bad...and they are!
     
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary
17282WuJHksJ9798f34razfKbPATqTq9E7