Energetics possesion and use Statutes, post 9/11

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by oil pan 4, Jun 17, 2021.


  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    You clearly don't understand the law.
    Then explain why anyone can buy tannerite?
     
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I have a sneaking suspicion that your lack of understanding is because Tannerite is not an explosive until mixed. Now, this discussion of explosives belongs elsewhere. Further deviations down this path will be deleted.
     
    stg58 likes this.
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I will attempt to explain Federal and State Statutes regarding Energetic Materials… and how Tannerite, one of the very few Binary Energetics, that Federal Statutes do NOT apply to… It is really simple..
    There are a lot of Chemicals, when mixed, become Manufactured Energetics.. Think Ammonium Nitrate and Fuel Oil… Potassium Chlorate, and Sulfur… Potassium Chlorate or Ammonium Nitrate and Mono NitroBenzine… and a whole myriad of others… All these may or may NOT be classed as HazMat, but are perfectly legal to buy, own, and possess as individual Chemicals… However, the act of mixing them, constitutes Manufacturing, which without a Federal License to do so, is a Federal Felony under Federal Statutes, and many State Statutes, as well as many State and local Fire Codes… Now the above are ALL Binary Energetics, and NOT Energetic Chemical Compounds, like NitroGlycerine, TNT, Cyclonite, Pentalyte, Mercury Fulminate, Lead Azide, PETN, and a whole Raft of similar Compounds.. These are ALL Classed as Energetic Materials and purchase, possession, storage and use, without the Appropriate Federal, State, and local Licenses and permits, constitute Mostly Felonies and or Gross Misdemeanors… Black Powder predates the founding of the USA, so it falls under a different set of Statutes and Regulations…
    There are Manufacturing Licenses, Storage Licenses, Commercial Users Licenses, and plain Users Licenses at the Federal level, as well as many States require separate State Licenses, and in some cases, local Licenses that mirror the Federal Licenses…
    Now Tannerite is a Binary Energetic composed of Fine Aluminum Powder, and an Oxidizer, typically Ammonium Nitrate, or Ammonium PerChlorate… All of which are perfectly legal to own posses and have MANY other uses beside as mixed into an Energetic Mixture… Therefore it falls outside the Federal Statutes, up until they are MIXED…. Also there may be State and local Statutes and or Ordinances that apply to amounts, that maybe stored, or possessed, in any one location…Also understand that because of the high Entropy Knee of the Tannerite Mixture, Federal Statutes do NOT apply to the. MIXING and USE of Said Mixture, by non-Licensees… It takes a LOT of Input Energy to get Tannerite to combust energenically…
    This is NOT the case with other Binary Energetics listed above, and only applies to Tannerite…
     
    VisuTrac likes this.
  4. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Then why are you trying to scare people?
    Now you're walking it back. I know exactly what's going on.
    A person can mix up tannerite or other such mixtures as long as they don't violate any state law, sell, store, transport, or provide services, make plastic explosives or make it into a destructive device.
    What part of that is not in compliance with the law?

    Also what changed post 9/11?
    Is that when they added the part about no making plastic explosives?
    Which hardly anyone can make or set off.
     
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Nope, Tannerite is different from ALL the other Binaries due to it’s very High Entropy Knee… and the amounts that can be legally included in each charge… 10# is not legal to posses when mixed, or even safe to store… Duh… What you think you know, about the subject at hand, is NOT factual, and can get you locked up or DEAD…
    I do not scare people, in my posts.. I inform folks… What they do with, or believe, is not my concern… My concern is with MisInformation being presented as facts, in areas that I have decades of professional experience..
    After 9/11 the FEDs went nuts and passed a while lot new Statute Changes that updated the Federal Regulations on Manufacturing, Transporting, Storage, purchase, and Both Commercial, and Individual Use… Now one must posses a Federal Users Permit to even touch an Energetic Material, even on ones own property, and one can not even get Day Blasting Permit where one uses ALL the purchased Energetics so there is no Storage requirement… It made the Farm Uses disappear, instantly, unless Mr. Farmer applied for and received a inspected Storage Magazine License as defined in the Orange Book.. and had his annual Inspection..
     
  6. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    And theres the key. You left out the part about transporting it.
     
  7. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    You keep interjecting stuff I already said can't legally be done by unlicensed people such as like store it. Why?
    How about the 4 chemical kit known as "prime all"? Some one could unknowingly mix up the whole kit, or 2 or 5 kits and a little bit of friction could set it off.
    So how is that legal if what I gather according to you "tannerite is only legal because it's 2 chemicals and it's really hard to set off"?
     
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    It is NOT Legal, as one violates the FEDERAL Statutes by NOT following the enclosed Instructions, that the OEM is REQUIRED to package with the material…. If you follow the Included instructions, you are legal, if NOT, you are subject to the FEDERAL Statutes…. Duh…
     
  9. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Oh boy!



    I'm gonna go mix up a big batch of Holy Black and set it out in this wonderful 88° day to dry it out and then corn it down to about FFg! Should be pretty snortin good!
    Gotta build up my Forth Of July'in supply for blowing stuff off and things! Can't have too much of it thankfully!
     
    Yard Dart and Dunerunner like this.
  10. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    A fool and home made explosives is a very dangerous combination. Some powders are not stable, some will go off with pressure, gunpowder and static electricity don't play well. Might sound stupid, but the package instructions should be followed, they are usually designed to protect their but from lawyers and the feds. What burns me up is the idiots making explosives and then farmers and greenhouse people can no longer get the good stuff. If you blend your growing mix, you change the amount of N2 to get growth or fruit. Ammonia and potassium nitrates work very well and are hard to get and some nanny states don't want you to have them.
     
    TnAndy, BTPost and Ura-Ki like this.
  11. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    The knowledge and ability to make a thing is not illegal, it's the making, having and using of a thing that is illegal!
     
    VisuTrac, mysterymet and BTPost like this.
  12. Tempstar

    Tempstar Monkey+++

    I learned to cap dynamite while helping a well driller, moved on to stumps, then to ditches. Buying explosives was just a thing like buying a box of nails. Then the laws started like transporting the caps separately then we had to have a wooden box with leather hinges, and finally I showed up one day and they required a blasters license, ending my side work with dynamite. Along the way I learned all about brisnance and propagation rates, how to split rocks with a mud cap, and how little charge most jobs needed.
    All their laws did was to stop peoples access to a useful tool. There are hundreds of chemicals out there that can be legally purchased and combined to form an energetic reaction, although none are as safe as Dynamite and det cord. Tannerite has a decent FPS to make a boom but not enough brisnance to do much more than shove things around.
     
    VisuTrac and BTPost like this.
  13. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I read a large portion of the explosives regulations. They didn't try to stop much of anything.
    Now I didn't read the parts about buying, selling, transporting, providing some kind of services or storing as unlicensed people shouldn't be doing any of those.
     
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