What to buy

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by JrOrtiz, Mar 26, 2021.


  1. JrOrtiz

    JrOrtiz Monkey

    And a CZ and a beretta.
     
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  2. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Good!!!
    Now, take that sucker apart, pull the barrel out and chuck it up in a bench vice with leather wrap to protect it, fire up the Dremel with a grinding/ polishing bit and very slowly and carefully, blend the feed lip and the edges of the throat till they have a nice radius! Now you have a perfect 1911 that will feed any ammo you toss at it, and it will continue to run perfectly for several lifetimes!

    Now, go train, train some more, and then train again! Report back after you have shot several thousand rounds! Learn it, live it, love it, and never give up on it, and it will serve you the rest of your life!

    Pro tip, once it's broken in ( yes, the 1911 needs to be broken in) shoot it dry, a proper duty 1911 never needs lubed except for range adventures, actual daily use should be dry as a bone. Don't listen to anyone telling you differently, the 1911 was made to run dry in combat for extended periods of time, and with only very basic cleaning to remove the larger chunks, will continue to run forever!
     
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Dry is good for mil std. Any of the fancy clones are apt to want some lube. It will tell you if it wants a drink by stoppages that you need to practice for.
     
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  4. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    1911 fan bois are their own worst enemies, and the worst ones who complain if their brand new pistols don't run 100% right, right out of the box! There are race guns that can be 100% reliable and combat rated, and there are cheap 1911s that run equally well, it's all in materials used, the break in and proper basic care!
     
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  5. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    They were indeed. They were on display at the museum in his honor.

    "They're ivory. Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl-handled pistol."
     
  6. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Hope you're happy with it. Break it in properly and take care of it and it should take care of you.
     
  7. JrOrtiz

    JrOrtiz Monkey

    Thank you will do. Getting more psyched. Packing a bag and heading to my place. Got 200 rds. Positive reactions from friends that have been hounding my to modernize. I am sure now they will work on me about a long gun. Then...... the argument start all over. AR vs AK vs Socomm vs G3. Lol

    Gotta say, haven't purchased a gun in years. I hunt with the same guns for well over 20 years
    Looking at all those cool looking guns something kinda came over me. Going back.
     
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  8. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    I'm gonna say, skip the pee shooters and go 7.62X51, but everyone here will say 5.56 AR type, which isn't wrong, just not "My" 1st recommendation! I will say, of the choices, the AR does have the best going for it, ( and I do use them A LOT) but it's hard not to choose something like an SKS or.......
    Ammo availability will determine a lot of your choices at this point, and build quality from the AKs will be a YUGE question that your going to have to know going into one!
     
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  9. JrOrtiz

    JrOrtiz Monkey

    No sks for me. AR are everywhere, it is America's rifle. Correct me if wrong but it seemed 30 years ago there were more AKs and SKSs around than ARs. At that time AKs, good Romanian ones were selling for $100 maybe $150, a guy I knew paid $900 for a colt AR and we were scandalized and way Impressed.

    Because of the current political situation purchasing something is actually a pdq thing and need to get on it. Just dont want to get stuck buying junk.

    Well the good thing about being sans spouse is that I can spend myself broke and dont have to answer for it. The bad is that I no long have a wife to keep me from spending myself broke.
     
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  10. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    A SKS makes a nice hole.... 7.62 X 39 has its place in the locker.
    I have a few of them that were bought for uber cheap... to ensure I had enough for all, l if things collapsed.
    That was years ago, and I routinely add to said "locker".

    An AR is the barbie doll of rifles... she can be dressed up for whatever occasion. ;)
     
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  11. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Lots of good advice in this thread. In order to even it out here is my two cents...

    Pistol priorities:
    1. How well the pistol fits your hand including how well your finger fits you trigger are the most important things behind reliability. If these things aren't right you won't shoot it very well.
    2. How ergonomic are the controls? If you are including defense as one of the uses then using it must be as natural as breathing.
    3. If you have a spouse how easily can she use it if needed? She might be able to work around a less than perfect fit but is the slide to difficult for her to rack under stress? What if your "weak hand" is injured? A slide that is easy to rack IMO is a desirable feature.
    4. Whatever pistol you get, get a second one the same series and size in 22LR for inexpensive practice.
    5. What cartridge? IMO 9mm is the smallest for self defense and modern bullet design makes them as effective as the more powerful cartridges were previously. Naturally those cartridges are even more effective as well. On balance I chose the 9mm, but I am not a pistolero. To me a pistol is something I use to get to my rifle.
    6. What pistol do I carry? I carry the M&P shield 9. I also have the full size M&P 9 as well as it's matching 22. For some strange reason the smaller Shield out shoots the full size 9 and has less felt recoil to boot. I just carry a few extra mags to make up for the smaller capacity, and yes, I practice mag swaps including in a crouch, laying on the floor or pretending my off hand is disabled.
    7. What are my favorites that are worth consideration:
      1. Single stack full size all metal pistol: The 1911. Comfortable in almost everyone's hand, easy to shoot, easy to learn. Only drawback is the ease of acquiring an "idiot mark". There is a reason these have been popular for so long.
      2. Double stack full size all metal pistol: The CZ-75. Fits your hand like a charm and far better than most, great ergos, shoots well. Can carry it cocked and locked like a 1911.
      3. Single stack concealed carry: S&W M&P 9 as mentioned above
      4. Double stack "plastic" pistol. Any of the Glocks fit well, shoot well, and the after market support is phenomenal. They are the AR-15's of the pistol world
      5. OK, so if the Glock is so freaking great why do you have all those M&P's? The answer is that I am married and my wife likes the fit of the M&P's better than the Glock. I wanted to standardize so that no matter which gun she picked up in an emergency it would work and feel exactly like all the others. The M&P's also require about half the force needed to rack the slide compared to the Glock, and the M&P was also just a hair behind the Glock as me preference.

    Rifles:
    All the usual suspects make for great SHTF as well as recreational rifles. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. Even the mighty AK-47 has a couple of flaws that are significant to me:
    1. The safety is freaking LOUD. It's as stealthy as a train running through the middle of a library.
    2. No bolt catch when the mag is empty. There at least is a mod for this from Krebbs.
    3. Ergos suck though YMMV.
    4. Cheap ammunition is all imported and the supply can be terminated at any time by a Biden EO. Don't forget that all that cheap ammo is berdan primed and corrosive.
    Not saying that it's a bad choice. It's a proven battle rifle you can depend on, but there is a lot of hype as well. My point is to see a firearm for what it is and not necessarily what you have heard.

    The 7.62 battle rifles mentioned, the FAL or the G3 and all it's offspring, are battle proven and excellent choices. I give the FAL the nod because of it's gas system and the G3 types have fluted chambers. That makes extraction easier but also reduces brass life. Don't forget the M1A. You could spend a week debating the three without coming to a conclusion. If you have to choose between them then go with what you gut tells you.

    The Mini 14 is not a bad choice for a 5.56. The later models have solved the accuracy problems with an improved barrel design. They have always had great ergos, and if you slap in a 5 round mag they don't look like a skerry black rifle and fly under the radar. The main drawback is that they are LOUD.

    I've saved the AR platform for the last. What sets it apart:
    • It's all modular and can be configured and reconfigured as necessary
    • Want to run a different cartridge? Swap the upper and possibly bolt for a different one. To turn a 5.56 rifle into a 22LR you don't even need to do that. Simply replace the bolt with a 22LR conversion kit and use special mags and you are good to go. Also the AR platform comes in several different action lengths ranging from 5.56 to medium and long actions. There is even a 50 BMG upper though it's single shot.
    • Ergonomics are top notch
    • The design is very accurate
    • Recoil is in a straight line from the barrel to the shoulder making them very easy to control and quick to get back on target
    • You can do all your gunsmithing at your kitchen table with a few tools.
    • Tremendous aftermarket support, but that's a two edged sword. There are a lot of cool looking neato parts that in reality don't work as well as standard parts. Also, too much temptation to add things that aren't needed.
    I won't say it's superior to the the other platforms, but it's the one I've standardized on based on the above. My AR-15 and AR-308 function exactly the same and share 85% parts compatibility. They have the exact same controls so it doesn't matter which one I grab under stress and pressure.

    Now let's talk cartridges.... I'll stick to commonly available military cartridges and their civvy counterparts

    • 7.63x39 - typically used in AK/SKS and others. Best for close quarter defense and also hunting to 30-30 Winchester ranges. Gets the job done. Comparatively inexpensive but also corrosive so you must clean your rifle every time you shoot it. Effective to perhaps 300 yards, but the AK platform is not generally considered accurate beyond 200 yards.

    • .223 Remington/5.56x41 - 5.56 operates at higher pressures than .223 so make sure your barrel is marked 5.56. Effective for close range out to hundreds of yards depending on bullet design. FMJ bullets are designed to fragment to increase damage. In the hands of a good shot can be effective to 600 yards.

    • 308 Winchester/7.62x51 - The 308 operates at higher pressures so it's best to stick to 7.62x51 unless the barrel is stamped 308. Still a lot of 308 has gone down the pipe of a FAL, G3 or M1A without incident. These cartridges are in a completely different league than those above. They complicate an opponents body armor and barrier strategies. Expect on shot one kill at close ranges while it can be effective to 1,000 yards in the right hands.

    What I use and why: I standardize (notice how I keep using that word?) on 5.56 and 308:

    5.56 is lightweight, effective, and has a mild recoil that can be used by almost anyone of any build or age. Most of my defense rifles use this cartridge for that reason. If I need to carry a rifle a long ways and need a lot of rounds I would choose an AR-15. Three rounds of 5.56 weigh about the same as one round of 308.

    308 packs a bigger punch, defeats armor, a good shot is usually a kill and if not puts an attacker out of action. If you are storming my house or neighborhood you will be looking down the barrel of my AR308.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  12. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    As always 3M nailed it!

    An AR is going to be able to do most defensive type work, especially if you don't have the training to do more serious rifle work, and can deal with the risks that go with that, so, stick with that, and decide which of the thousands of combinations will best suit your needs! For me, light, slick, fast, and simple carbines are what gets my pulse rate up and palms sweaty with blood lust, something with an 11.5 inch barrel threaded for a suppressor, and no do-dads, extras, or ge-gaws to get hung up or fail when in need! Simple carry handle with sights, simple stock and for end, and simple single point sling ring with the standard sling rings for rifleman's work! The AR as a defensive tool doesn't need more barrel, more length, or options, and it certainly dosent benefit from Tacticool stuff when the ranges are less then the 500 yards these carbines are meant to be used at! For more then 500 yards, you really Really want the big boy 7.62X51!
    PXL_20210327_035714164.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
  13. Re; Patton's comment. I think he said " Only a tin horn gambler, or a pimp in a New Orleans bordello would carry a pearl handled pistol" . Now I'm waiting for someone to tell me I'm wrong, as usual. Everyone who posted above is right.
     
  14. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++


    I had heard/read the same about different working pressures; .223 was around 55K psi and 5.56 was around 62K psi. It appears the SAMMI and military way of measuring the pressures are different. When the measurement technique differences are taken into consideration, the two cartridges employ almost the same operating pressures.

    The primary difference is the various dimensions for 5.56 are generally a thousandth to a few thousandths of an inch larger than .223. I suspect much of the difference between .308 and 7.62 is similar.

    Here is a pretty good video addressing 223/556.

     
  15. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Pistol is bought and nothing I can really add to the rifle advice that hasn't been said other than make your choice/purchase quickly as there are changes in the wind..
    Should you choose the M1A, there is a little 'ol Lady that hangs out on here that makes some fine accessories for them.

    Sexy pic @Ura-Ki. I finally bought that stock for the build...
     
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  16. JrOrtiz

    JrOrtiz Monkey

    Wow. Thank you
     
  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I prefer the pre-70s models because of the absence of the engineer vanity stroke added in the 80s to prevent a weapon from firing when dropped, never a real problem with a 1911.
     
  18. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Thank you, just filling in some holes. Glad you got through all of it and stayed awake.

    A point I missed regards current conditions. If you are buying a firearm during these panic buying days you should consider buying what you can find ammo for first. I'd consider buying the ammo first then getting what can shoot it next.

    Right now ammo flies off the shelves as soon as it arrives. Some stores out here don't even put it on the shelf. You go to customer service and ask what's in stock and if by some miracle they have it you can buy a box or two.

    On line has been my best option for a while. I've gotten great deals in the past at PSA, Midway, and SGA. You can also use ammoseek to search for what's currently in stock at many places, but you need to act fast or it's gone. It's all at very inflated prices, roughly three to four times pre-panic days. Without ammo, though, a firearm is either an expensive club a rock for defensive purposes.

    The other really great option is on firearms forums in your area. Lots of expertise and they usually have a classified section so forum members can buy and sell to each other. If you state still allows face to face sales this is the way to go even if it's more expensive than new. It prevents having that 4473 out there that might eventually become part of a future registry.

    Don't forget magazines. 5,000 rounds of ammo in boxes and only having a single magazine makes most of that worthless during defense. Ten mags minimum for each rifle because you can expect a ban sometime during the Harris administration.
     
  19. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    president Camel-toe will try everything it can to "Ban" weapons, good luck with that. I will not comply.
     
  20. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    This times two. Good advice, my friend.
     
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