Medical Ethics Meets Social Justice

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 3M-TA3, Dec 19, 2020.


  1. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    looks like they are recruiting human lab rats.

    Start with the politicians and lawyers first.

    After all, lab rats are more well thought of these days...
     
  2. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Rats are at least mammals and would be genetically closer to humans. If they are testing on politicians and lawyers, then reptiles must be getting vaccinated as well?
     
  3. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    I'm still working on figuring out how I can Legally get out of taking the vaccine while keeping my job should my place of employment require it!!!
     
    ditch witch, 3M-TA3 and Oddcaliber like this.
  4. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Develop some severe allergies.
     
    3M-TA3 and Oddcaliber like this.
  5. apache235

    apache235 Monkey+++

    1st amendment to the “new” Constitution, call it .5, If any person, state, group or entity proposes a law in violation of the Constitution, they shall be tried for treason and shot. Proposing a change to the Constitution that goes through the proper steps for amendments is not included. Then you could make Congress bi-annual and eliminate ALL benefits for those serving in Congress and reduce their pay by ½ and they could serve a maximum of 2 terms.
     
    Mountainman likes this.
  6. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    A check of the "news" and local alternatives shows at least 4 people in each state have had to be hospitalized after getting the Vax.

    So, I really have to wonder how high the number really is, in fact.

    Think about it - if death from GSW is a COVID death, why would they do anything but hide Vax deaths?
     
  7. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Vax deaths wont matter. Drug companies have built in immunity from law suits or/and prosecution... go look up the laws they passed to push thru the vaccinations so quickly
     
  8. ditch witch

    ditch witch I do stupid crap, so you don't have to

    If they make us carry a card like they have across the pond, it'll be a breeze to create.
    ahVAXUK.
     
    Ganado, VisuTrac, 3M-TA3 and 2 others like this.
  9. TXKajun

    TXKajun Monkey+++

    If vaccine administration is based on anything other than random selection, seems to me that would be ageism, racism, etc, and should be a legally actionable offense. However, I am 125% in favor of all politicians, from local to county, to state, to federal being forced to take all the vaccinations three weeks before proceeding with vaccinations for the general populations. Also, each individual should be able to not take the vaccine without penalty.
     
  10. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    The woke social justice police in at least 20 states have decided to test, I mean give the vaccine to minorities first. You know because they are under serviced by our heath care system and this is a chance to test something I mean give something to black, brown and Indians people first then sell it by saying it's "social justice".
    Josef Mengele would be proud.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
    TXKajun, Mountainman, oldawg and 2 others like this.
  11. Merkun

    Merkun furious dreamer

    Somebody said that prioritizing vaccine administration based on anything other than importance of the group (hospital workers, firepeople, cops, kids bakery employees, you name it) would be an ethical travesty. Overserved, underserved, both are meaningless when it come to that. Reparations must NOT be part of the priority structure for that damn cold stuff. Thus spake me, and I am certain I am not alone.
     
    TXKajun and HK_User like this.
  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Now they could legitimately give it to older darker skin people first because we know people who are dark skinned by design don't synthesize their own vitamin D as well as us crackas, they tend to be lactose intolerant, therefore way more likely to be vitamin D deficient, if they have type A blood and are over the age of about 55 well the virus is going to kick their ass. We don't need systemic racism, aka wokism to justify who gets it. Science kinda figured out who and why.
     
    HK_User likes this.
  13. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Those are FAR more valid and scientific reasons than presented by those who claim to speak for medical ethics. As an old while cisgendered male I would defer to someone with a greater medical NEED than myself.
     
    HK_User likes this.
  14. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Someplace I have my "POLIO PIONEER" card.
     
    ditch witch likes this.
  15. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Polio was cruel and horrible. China virus is an inconvenience for most people and deadly for elderly and high risk.
    Did they ever shutdown the nation for polio?
    People are such chicken shits these days.
     
  16. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Polio was an epidemic in the US

    No Lockdowns: The Terrifying Polio Pandemic of 1949-52
    [​IMG]Jeffrey A. Tucker
    – May 10, 2020 Reading Time: 6 minutes
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    [​IMG]
    Many people infected with polio don’t show any symptoms. Some become temporarily paralyzed; for others, it’s permanent. In 1952, the polio epidemic reached a peak in U.S.: almost 58,000 reported cases and more than 3,000 deaths.

    World War II had ended four years earlier and the U.S. was trying to return to peace and prosperity. Price controls and rationing were ended. Trade was opening. People were returning to normal life. The economy started humming again. Optimism for the future was growing. Harry Truman became the symbol of a new normacy. From Depression and war, society was on the mend.

    As if to serve as a reminder that there were still threats to life and liberty present, an old enemy made its appearance: polio. It’s a disease with ancient origins, with its most terrifying effect, the paralysis of the lower extremities. It maimed children, killed adults, and struck enormous fear into everyone.

    Polio is also a paradigmatic case that targeted and localized policy mitigations have worked in the past, but society-wide lockdowns have never been used before. They weren’t even considered as an option.

    Polio was not an unknown disease: its reputation for cruelty was well earned. In the 1916 outbreak, there were 27,000 cases and more than 6,000 deaths due to polio in the United States, 2,000 of which were in New York City. After the war, people had living memories of this horror. People were also used to adjusting their behavior. In 1918, people left cities for resorts, movie theaters were closed for lack of customers, groups cancelled meetings, and public gatherings dwindled. Children avoided swimming pools and public water fountains, fearing that it was transmitted through water. Whatever the therapeutic merit of this, these actions required no force; it happened because people do their best to adapt to risk and be cautious.

    In 1949, the new polio epidemic appeared and swept through selective population centers, leaving its most tragic sign: children with wheelchairs, crutches, leg braces, and deformed limbs. For children with polio in the late 1940s, the disease caused paralysis in 1 in 1,000 cases of children aged 5 to 9. The rest had only mild symptoms and developed immunities. In the 1952 season, of the 57,628 cases reported, 3,145 died and a shocking 21,269 experienced paralysis. So while the infection, death, and paralysis rates seem “low” by comparison to the 1918 flu, the psychological impact of this disease became its most prescient feature.

    The “iron lung” that became widely available in the 1930s stopped asphyxiation of polio victims, and it was a triumph of innovation; it allowed a dramatic reduction in the death rate. Finally, by 1954, a vaccine was developed (by private labs with very little government support subsidies) and the disease was largely eradicated in the U.S. twenty years later. It became a signature achievement of the medical industry and the promise of vaccines.

    Here is the data on infection and death.

    Throughout the country, the quarantining of the sick was deployed in a limited way as one medical response. There were some shutdowns. The CDC reports that “travel and commerce between affected cities were sometimes restricted [by local officials]. Public health officials imposed quarantines (used to separate and restrict the movement of well people who may have been exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become ill) on homes and towns where polio cases were diagnosed.”

    President Harry Truman spoke frequently about the need for a national mobilization against polio. But what he meant by this was to rally people to be cautious, follow medical guidelines, isolate the infected, and get the medical community inspired to find means of treatment and cure.

    Though there was no cure, and no vaccine, there was a long incubation period before symptoms would reveal themselves, and while there was a great deal of confusion about how it was transmitted, the thought of locking down an entire state, nation, or world was inconceivable. The concept of a universal “shelter in place” order was nowhere imaginable. Efforts to impose “social distancing” were selective and voluntary.

    In an earlier 1937 outbreak in Chicago, for example, the superintendent of schools (not the mayor or governor) closed the public schools for three weeks and encouraged learning from home. In many localities, when there was an outbreak and depending on the level of fear, bowling alleys and movie theaters were closed, but not by force). Church services were cancelled sporadically, but not by force. The churches themselves were never shuttered.

    In Minnesota in 1948, the state board of health cautioned against going ahead with the state fair. It was cancelled. In 1950, James Magrath, president of the Minnesota state board of health warned against large gatherings, and regretted how much people persisted in gatherings of children, but added: “Nobody can shut down intercourse of people in communities… We will just have to say, ‘Do everything you can within reason.’ You can’t close up everything…”

    In May 1949, after an outbreak in San Angelo, Texas (my father remembers this), the city council voted (voted!) to close all indoor meeting places for one week, according to the wonderful book Polio: An American Story by David M. Oshinsky, with a promised ending period.

    But the local epidemic didn’t pass that quickly, and by June hospitals were filled with patients. Tourism stopped because people didn’t want to be there. Cleaning fanaticism was the rule of the day. Most indoor theaters and bowling alleys stayed closed simply because people were afraid (no evidence of any prosecutions). In the end, writes Oshinsky, “San Angelo saw 420 cases, one for every 124 inhabitants, of whom 84 were permanently paralyzed and 28 died.”

    And by August, polio was gone again. Life in San Angelo gradually returned to normal.

    This experience repeated itself in most places in the country where there were outbreaks. City councils would encourage the following of the directives of the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (later the March of Dimes), which circulated a list of “polio precautions” for parents to follow. Some towns and cities across the United States tried to prevent the spread of polio by closing swimming pools, libraries, and movie theaters (not restaurants or barber shops) on a temporary basis but mostly in a way consistent with the public mood stemming from fear and confusion.

    The only protests against authorities in a half-century of confusion came in New York when it seemed in the 1910s that authorities were targeting immigrant children with a burdensome demand that they be polio-free before integrating themselves into the community. “If you report any more of our babies to the Board of Health,” wrote the Italian Black Hand in blood, “we will kill you.”

    What’s remarkable in light of the near-global coercive lockdown for COVID-19 is how the terrible and terrifying disease of polio was managed almost entirely by a private and voluntary system of health professionals, innovators, parental responsibility, localized caution, and individual volition and caution where needed. It was an imperfect system because the virus was so vicious, cruel, and random. But precisely because there were no national or state lockdowns – and only very limited local closures done mostly in a way consistent with citizen fear – the system remained adaptive to changing conditions.

    Meanwhile, “Guys and Dolls” and “The King and I” appeared on Broadway, “A Streetcar Named Desire” and “African Queen” rocked the movie theaters, the steel mills hummed as never before, the oil industry boomed, domestic and international travel continued to roar and become democratized, the civil rights movement was born, and the “golden age of American capitalism” took root, all in the thick of a terrible disease.

    This was a time when, even for this ghastly disease that maimed innocent young children, medical problems were widely seen to have medical solutions and not political ones.

    Yes, there were clear policy responses to these past pandemics, but they targeted the most vulnerable populations to keep them safe, while leaving everyone else alone. Polio was especially bad for school children, but that meant they closed the schools temporarily, in cooperation with parents and the community.

    The current pandemic is different because, instead of targeting the vulnerable populations, we’ve gone for society-wide one size fits all at nearly the national and global level, and certainly the state level. That’s never happened – not with polio, not with the Spanish flu, the 1957 flu, the 1968 flu, or anything else.

    As the health official quote above said of the polio epidemic: “Nobody can shut down intercourse of people in communities.” Our rights survived. So did human liberty, free enterprise, the Bill of Rights, jobs, and the American way of life. And then polio was eventually eradicated.

    The slogan for polio eradication – “Do everything you can within reason” – seems like a good rule of thumb for the management of future pandemics.

    * * * * *

    In 2012, National Public Radio ran an excellent 7-minute summary of the 1950s experience from terror to near-eradication. It’s worth a listen to get a sense of the social and political context of this disease.
     
    oldman11 likes this.
  17. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    The polio epidemic happened because after the war there was a fresh crop of humans that had no immunity to it.
    But there were still loads of people immune to it.
     
    Ganado likes this.
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