Medical Ethics Meets Social Justice

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 3M-TA3, Dec 19, 2020.


  1. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Ominous times ahead for older white people, especially when we are eventually forced into government controlled healthcare. The article below discusses prioritization of COVID-19 vaccinations while the vaccines are still in short supply. Here is one alarming snippet

    "...Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks, and that they are disproportionately minorities. “Older populations are whiter, ” Dr. Schmidt said. “Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit.” ..."​

    The Elderly vs. Essential Workers: Who Should Get the Coronavirus Vaccine First?

    While the states are not required to follow the suggestions above (the contributors form the guidelines for the CDC) imagine what will happen when the medical industry becomes privatized (a probability if the Georgia Senate elections go left) and CDC policy becomes law. I can easily see this morphong into levels of care based on identity politics. Scary stuff to come.
     
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  2. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    You can give my shot of COVID Vax to some fat-ass Govt Union worker that is "essential'.

    After all, who else would tell me how to live my life?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
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  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Politicians should be the first (and their children and grandkids).
    I'm afraid that the military aren't going to have a choice.
    then 2 months later, healthcare workers if they want to get it after seeing the side effects from the first group.
    then the elderly if they want it.
    then the rest of us.
     
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    If that jackwipe had left out the statement about disproportionate minorities among "essential" workers, I'd be on board. But as soon as the played the race card, I have to question is expertise in anything but eating. Ethics is a tough enough thing to get a grip on without the complexities. To many "what if's" for me.

    If we are not awake and aware, these preferential groupings will devolve into whether someone is in the 40013 position or the 40027th.
     
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  5. ditch witch

    ditch witch I do stupid crap, so you don't have to

    This is the irony of wokeism. You must give the vaccine to the POC first because it would be racist white supremacy to give it to the crackers, but you can only force white people to take the vaccine because it would be racist white supremacy to force POC to be vaccinated.
     
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  6. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    I think this falls under

    cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance
    /ˈkäɡnədiv ˈdisənəns/
    noun
    Psychology
    noun: cognitive dissonance
    the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

    Can I auction off my COVID Vax shot at the Dollar Store? I'll take EBT credits....
     
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  7. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    IMO, it's not about the COVID vaccines per se, it's about setting the precedent for medical care based on identity politics going forward and the ramifications of the eventual government provided and controlled health care system in our future.

    Old, white, and straight? No health care for you! Treatments to improve your life as you age? Sounds like an RX for euthanasia to me, white boy!
     
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  8. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    That's fine, when I die I take my skills with me, you can stumble around in the dark, on your own.
     
  9. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    The coming dark age will be all the worse because of all the pre-industrial knowledge and skills that have been lost to the common man.
     
  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Not to worry, they are more than welcome to my shot of vaccine. It is gladly donated. :)

    As far as the rest... BRING ON THE FALL! I've had enough. Enough of the SCOTUS. Enough of traitors disguised as Democrats and Republicans. Enough of their damn fairy tales and lies of a 'Land of the Free.' Enough of the whole damn mess. Burn it down. Now! Today! Guillotine every one of the SOBs! The past 200+ years has shown us all their evil aspirations and ways so we know them well so this time when we rewrite the Constitution we'll get it right and ensure they cannot trample or bypass it and that they rule us by consent not their damn dictate.

    The night of 3 November, they might have turned me into a subject but my heart and soul remains a citizen with the dream of being a free nation once again - that they cannot take from me, not with taxes, not with edict, not with force.
     
  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I'll let some minority have my china virus shot. Plus I already had the china virus and it wasn't that bad.
     
  12. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I'd say there's some confusion with identity politics and ethics. they aren't really related. Identity should not enter into the discussion of what grouping should be at the head of the line. But that's the way I think, not the way the givaway group thinks and operates.
     
  13. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Just more political bull shit.
    If I had the way I would dissolve everything I own and use it as a syrup for the have nots and do nothings. Maybe they could take a great big slug of that syrup and be happy with what I have accomplished.

    In this I would hope the essence of my life would flow from the syrup and provide an insight of my meager accomplishments and trials and provide a deep intuitive understanding what it means to be a poor white person of no color. Then again maybe they would all rather be the parasites I believe them to be.

    The "state"is providing more division to cause more hate and discontent.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
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  14. johnbb

    johnbb Monkey+++

    Not a big fan of Lincoln but his "A house divided against itself cannot stand" rings true. We were once A melting pot (if it was ever true) we are now a nation of let's promote diversity, social justice, redistribution of someone else wealth to those who won't work, free speech only if you are a leftists like me on and on. I'm with Bandit 99 on this one there are still some of us who still have the spirit of our founding Fathers
     
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  15. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    My protest is just not participating in it. I wish there was a real Galt’s Gulch I could move to and be done with everything. I want to be a hermit when I grow up.
     
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  16. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    What we are seeing today I can liken with an electronics term called "overshoot and ring". It's an indication of an underdampened circuit, and it has allegories to any type of system where change is present. "Underdampened" basically is a change that is too fast for the system to easily accommodate. The opposite is overdampened which means that the change is so slow it barely affects the system

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    I think this is pertinent to social and political change. Prior to the Civil Rights Era the US was overdampened (change was too slow) when it came to civil rights. Change was happening but it was glacially slow.

    During the CRE, change was much quicker. It was perhaps slightly faster than a critically dampened change. The "ring" being the pushback against racial equality by some groups on one hand and on the other side you had preferential treatment in terms of hiring and educational admission/assistance practices. Remember, the goal is equality, and if you have equality there should be no preferential or detrimental treatment based on race. Still, it was manageable and working itself out.

    Since the beginning of the "this could have been my son" era, change has been pushed far, far, too fast, and frankly IMO unnecessary. We are strill in the overshoot phase where we are unstable and well outside the envelope we want to achieve. In this case the overshoot is "everything white, from people, to culture, to achievements is bad and everything non-white is good.". It's to the point where minorities can do no wrong, including committing violent crimes, and the very existence of whites is abhorrent.

    It's actually so bad that we are close to an undampened system. Dampening is usually controlled by a negative feedback system. In politics this is the loyal opposition. In education, engineering, sciences, medicine, etc., it's the peer review process. The problem we face is the neutering of the loyal opposition and transforming into a one party system If you have ever been in a meeting or a presentation where a ringing tone got louder end louder until somebody placed their hand over a microphone, that's a good example of an unstable positive feedback system.

    Politically and racially we are in a moment of change that is too fast for the undampened system combined with positive feedback. This won't end well unless somebody puts theirhand over the microphone and breaks the cycle.
     
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  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Interesting analogy, perhaps could be expanded into an article worth publishing at some point after things settle down if they ever do. Right now, it might be seen as a foretaste.

    For those that are unfamiliar with the term "damper" in this application, auto shock absorbers are called "dampers" in most of the rest of the world. For comparison, "over damped" is what you feel on hitting a pot hole and the car feels like it was badly jarred. "Under damped" is when the car continues bouncing after the hit. Hard shocks, overdamped, are frozen or mismatched to the car. Bouncing usually means you need new shocks.
     
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  18. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Monkey+++

    I want to die of old age not from some covid vaccine!
     
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  19. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    If parked it means something else entirely. ;)
     
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  20. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    my biggest problem with any 'shot' is long term unknown side effects.
    mRNA technology is brand new. They've spent decades to make it viable.
    But, how does effect future fertility in today pre-pubescents .. how about birth defects.
    Can it cause mental issues as we age (accelerate dementia or Alzheimer's?)
    how about CNS issues?
    how does it effect the cardiac system long term.

    This is a brave new world and we don't have very much data.
     
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