The Battle of Gettysburg

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by chelloveck, Jul 13, 2020.


  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    This Battlefields Trust video does an excellent job of describing the course of the battle.



    There are others in the series of similar quality. I highly recommend them


    https://www.youtube.com/americanbattlefieldtrust
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  2. apache235

    apache235 Monkey+++

    "That government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from the earth" And yet in two generations we have thrown it all away.
     
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  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    The American experiment is an ongoing project...it is not a failed experiment just yet.
     
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  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Addendum: I seriously hope that the experiment does not fail...the world would be much the poorer for it, should that possible outcome become an eventuality.
     
  5. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Never knew him, but great grand father fought and survived in 1 st Minnesota, as a child met and talked to two people that fought there. Been there a few times, always impressed by the battle being won and lost by the actions of men and not some great technological advantage like today.

    Union lost over 3,000 and about 1 in 3 of those present on both sides were killed or wounded, and now some in our country want to throw that all out the window as dead man's culture. Hope that they don't succeed, but doesn't look good.

    Watched it yet again and was again impressed by how close it was the 1 st day, , and without the actions of a few men, both Generals and Privates, it could of went either way. Lee had to win a major victory early on, as time went on, the full might of the Union Army came to the area and he could not win. We tend to forget that the 1 st day was dominated by Lee and the Union's greatest victory at that time was that they made a successful retreat to the high ground and held on until reinforcements arrived.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  6. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    As they say, "winners are grinners and losers can please themselves"....battles ebb and flow, and the combatants may enjoy temporary advantage, and/or temporary disadvantage several times during the course of a battle / campaign....what matters are the consequences of ultimate victory or defeat in a battle/campaign. In the case of Gettysburg, Lee realising that his force faced destruction, managed to disengage his forces, and escape encirclement after Gettysburg was conceded to the Union forces: That was the genius of Lee in being able to retain sufficient forces intact to continue prosecuting the war for a year or more until the defeat of the Confederacy was finally sealed.

    In the face of an overwhelming force, or being outmaneuvered, withdrawal to more defensible ground of one's own choosing is generally the better option than slugging it out in-situ and losing. There is no dishonour in making a tactical withdrawal as a temporary holding operation to conserve one's force until offensive operations can resume. Judging when, and to where those movements are to be made, is what generalship is all about.
     
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  7. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Many armchair generals (to include myself at times) consider Lee to be at fault for the lost, especially Picket's Charge; however, we forget that Lee need a major win for he knew the odds were against him long-term so a major win there could have broken the political will of the Union which was facing serious social and political unrest due to the causalities and leadership...and corruption. He gambled and lost but he really had no choice but to do so at the time.

    I imagine soon they will be tearing down his statues and erasing his name from landmarks and history books also much like many of the others. It's a shame but there it is....
     
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  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    The biggest difference between be and some people on the civil war is I lived in Virginia for about 20 years, been to Gettysburg multiple times and other war of Northern Aggression battle fields.
    It's a perspective no foreigner will ever have.
     
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  9. Re: post #4. Thanks Chell, I wish more of the world shared that view. Hell I wish more of the people here shared that view.
     
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  10. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I downloaded the Elliot map of the battlefield took the files to work and made several large copies on a plotter and had some framed if you have access to a plotter they make great wall hangers.

    Elliott's map of the battlefield of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania

    - Shows breastworks and rifle pits, graves of Union and Confederate soldiers, "dead horses" reads and streets, relief by hachures, vegetation, drainage, houses and names of residents.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    I read a book about Elliot and how he went about making his maps . And especially how Gen. Stonewall Jackson is the one that realized the importance of having those maps to use for picking the sites , and forcing the Unions forces to fight on the land that Jackson chose for his battles. I truly believe,, if it wasn't for the unfortunate death of Gen. Jackson , there may have been an alternate ending in that war.
     
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  12. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    I'm a Southerner and was a Confederate re-enactor for many years, but the 1st Minnesota was and is a much respected foe. At 1st Manassas, the Seven Days and Antietam they were heavily engaged and reluctant to retreat. But it was at Gettysburg that they won their fame, their forlorn-hope attack against a much larger Confederate force resulted in stopping the Confederate advance but the price was high....215 casualties out of 262 engaged, or 83%! They rank up there with the units of the Irish Brigade and the Iron Brigade...the kind of men you hate to have to fight and kill!
     
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  13. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    That is why I have history books of my own! I'm reminded of three quotes, from a song, movie and historical figure. The first is, "Teach your children well..". The second is, "..playing outlawed tunes on outlawed pipes.". The last is from Major-General Patrick Ronayne Cleburne CSA, "Every man should...understand the meaning of subjugation...it means the loss of all that we now hold most sacred...personal property, lands, homesteads, liberty, justice, safety, pride, manhood. It means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by all the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, our maimed veterans as fit objects for derision. The conqueror's policy is to divide the conquered into factions and stir up animosity among them,..".
     
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  14. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I have never heard of General Cleburne or his quote but his prophecy certainly came true. Yes, sadly his prediction came true and is on-going and affects not only the South but the entire nation. Thanks!
     
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  15. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    Patrick Ronayne Cleburne was born in County Cork, Ireland, on March 17, 1828 (St. Patrick's Day) to Protestant parents. He failed the entrance exams to attend Trinity College in Dublin and enlisted in the 41st Regiment of Foot in the British Army. He served for 3 years and attained the rank of corporal before purchasing his discharge in 1849, and emigrating to America. He arrived in New Orleans on December 25, 1849 and eventually settled in Helena, Arkansas, where he prospered. Cleburne was a businessman and lawyer, and he never owned a slave.
    In 1860, he joined a militia company as a private. In 1861 , he was elected Captain of this unit, and a month later was Colonel of the 15th Arkansas Infantry Regiment. Cleburne and his men preformed well in early battles like Shiloh, in the summer of 1861 he was made a General. Thereafter, as long as Cleburne lived, he and his command were distinguished in every battle and campaign of the Army of Tennessee.
    In late 1862, Cleburne was promoted to Major General to command a division in the Army of Tennessee. This was to become one of the best, if not the premiere, division in the Confederate Army. Cleburne's Division was the ONLY unit in the Confederate Army to retain it's own distinctive battle flag, a blue field with a round white center and border. They were TWICE awarded The Thanks of the Confederate Congress. In the Battle of Chattanooga, General Cleburne was able to hold his ground against SIX divisions under Gen. Sherman, and covered the Confederate retreat. President Jefferson Davis called him the "Stonewall Jackson of the West", and General Lee called him "A meteor shining from a clouded sky".
    In early 1864, General Cleburne did what many though was unthinkable, he advocated freeing and enlisting slaves into the Confederate Army. He noted that Negros, both free and enslaved, had been an important part of the Confederate Army from the beginning of the War; that the Confederate Armies had bled themselves white during the course of the War and this was a new untapped source of manpower; and that the Yankee's would use them against the Confederacy if they didn't! It was a good idea, but it was too much, too soon! His proposal was officially suppressed, but before the year was out the Confederate Congress had passed such a measure with the endorsements of President Davis and General Lee. But it was too little, too late!
    As the sun was setting on November 30, 1864, Major- General Patrick R. Cleburne was killed leading his men in the Battle of Franklin. His body was found 50 yards from the Yankee earthworks. It was said of him, "When his division defended, no odds broke it's lines; where it attacked, no numbers resisted its onslaught, save only once, and there is the grave of Cleburne.".
     
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