Is Church Essential?

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by Dont, Jun 4, 2020.


  1. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey

    Read this in the American Thinker and it validated a concern that has been lurking in my mind. I was questioning how some church leaders accepted the orders to shut down services wile others fought back.
    Personally, I had come to a conclusion that some church leaders needed to show more faith in the Lord and more skepticism for the words of questionable men.


    Basically, the Church acceded to a definition of itself as non-essential, thus relegating itself to the status of any other business or institution. By beating a retreat into the cloud, the Church shrank itself into the tech matrix, subjecting itself to the arbitrary touch of a fingertip or click of a mouse, becoming just another one of the gods inhabiting the cloud above Mt. Tech Olympus.

    But what is just as important as the ascension of the Church into the cloud is the fact that state governments, now fortified by SCOTUS, will expect churches to continue to follow severe restrictions set up during and after the total shutdown. Churches will be expected to follow regulatory requirements for reopening that amount to the equivalent of a "fundamental transformation" of the churches.

    The rest of the article;
    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/06/americas_new_staterun_church.html
     
  2. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    Freedom of Religion left the building in 1890. Since then, it’s all been on sufferance.
     
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  3. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    To Many , YES
    My church is in my heart / brain !!
    I'll get a memo if im standing out of line !
    S
     
  4. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    Well it would be if Church was Church seems these day organized religion is a money making home for the corrupt and child molesters
     
  5. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    if you have netflix this is a pretty good take on the above... not overly kind I suppose but fairly accurate IMHO

    shows how the real message is twisted and bent for... money...???

    "American Christ Alone Gospel"... on netflix
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
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  6. Meat

    Meat Monkey+++

    I haven’t been to church since around 1987 but....I’ve heard it’s changed. Espresso stands, live bands, dancing(eww) and sometimes the big playoff game. I say however that if Home Depot, Lowe’s and Walmart can be trusted to keep Americans safe then so can a place of worship. Edit: The ushers sometimes have firearms under their suit coat I’ve been told. Less people falling asleep I’ll bet. :D
     
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  7. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    ALL of my unalienable rights are essential.
    Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, and the Right to Assemble come into play

    I think I've also seen "the right to pursue happiness" mentioned as a foundational document as well.
    I consider this to be my right to make my own decisions and suffer the consequences.

    We even have a post Civil War Supreme Court decision stating that the Government may not be allowed suspend our rights even during an emergency.

    I haven't attended a service since I was a teen, but support the rights of others to do so even if it results in their own harm. Our Government's prime responsibility is to protect out rights and not to protect us from our actions even if that involves gross stupidity.

    Many churches have come up with novel ways to worship that still prevented close contact, such as on net services or outside services where members can stay in their cars or spread out for distancing. It's interesting to note that the outdoor services met government resistance even though it met the social distancing guidelines.
     
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  8. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Went last Sunday

    Heathens!!!
     
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  9. Wild Trapper

    Wild Trapper Pirate Biker

    The church is essential to those who deem it essential.
    To the non-believers, maybe not so much.
    Howsoever, even the non-believers do benefit in some ways by the existence of the moral element in their community.

    Do I always do what is right and honest in the sight of the God I profess to believe in?
    I think we all know the answer to that.
     
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  10. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    I dont really follow the thinking that by making the decision to keep their congregation healthy and safe that the 'church' in any way condemned themselves to being non essential. That is just over emotionalism put on paper like its the truth.. Why go there?

    Churches could have remained open, had everyone sit 6 feet apart and had multiple services if they wanted to accommodate everyone. ( or more peole could have sat in the front pews :eek::D:p.

    Stores went a different route and managed traffic. Churches could have done the same. Instead they went a safer route and went online and had online services because we can be together in spirit for worship, physical contact isnt necessary. God is always with us we dont need a store front for worship services.
     
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    We are, according to some religious groups, given free will to decide what to believe and how worshipping should be done. To some, it has to be in groups for fellowship and whatever else is associated with that particular congregation. Others endorse solitary, silent worship. Throw a dart at the many books touting one or the other, but LIVE YOU OWN LIFE, YOUR OWN WAY. Don't be mistaken for a sheep by everyone that might have an opinion. Remember, not all those with a shepherd's crook are good shepherds.

    (And it harm no one, do what ye will.)
     
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  12. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Sometimes it is the place where people find hope.
    Sometimes it's the place some one hears Jesus gospel.
    Sometimes it's the place people are healed.
    Some times it's the place people find love and acceptance they don't find anywhere else.
    Some times I receive challenge to do better, in my relationship with God and man.
    Not all churches are the same, even with the same labels, they have different priorities, as different as the people themselves.
    I have visited churches of different denominations assessing spiritual temperature as it were.
    It seems that most people have no idea what's going on, they just go with the flow. They sing but the words have no meaning in them to those singing. Or they are a fantasy in their mind.
    I know God knows my heart, I don't sing things I do not experience. When you know that you are responsible for every thing you speak , what you say means even more. And of course, the reverse is also true.
    If the things you speak are not true in you, then it is a lie you are accountable for.
    I hear the ungodly sing "Amazing Grace" and have no idea what they are saying, it's just an emotional song, NOT.
    If churches took more seriously those things "Jesus" taught, not Paul or David or any one else in scriptures things can change.
    After all, it is supposed to be about Jesus.
     
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  13. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++

    To those who believe and practice, yes. Unfortunately that’s a small minority.
     
  14. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    I know a whole lot of people that go to church, I know very few Christians.
     
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  15. Garand69

    Garand69 Monkey++

    In the People's Republic of Illinois Liquor Stores and Pot Dispensaries were essential from the start according to our fearless Tyrants. Meanwhile in Chicago, Beetlejuice Lightfoot was blocking church parking lots, and then towing every car in the neighborhood (including residents) in order to stir hatred of the Church. The following week she had Chicago PD banging on the doors of another Church to clear everyone out.(the Mosques were all left alone).

    My rights don't end with the latest mutation of the flu-bug
     
  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    "Is Church essential?."

    Short answer: No

    Short answer: the Church has always resided in a cloud...the cloud of peoples' fertile imaginations....just that the church needs places for magical thinking people to congregate, and encourage mutual affirmation of their different brands of magical supernaturalism.
     
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  17. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I like magic !
     
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  18. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I like magic too: illusionism and legerdemain can be very entertaining....I'm impressed at the ability of scamvangelist's in separating the contents of their congregant's wallets and purses (analogue and digital)...from their congregants. A church is more like a casino in some ways, where the odds are stacked in favour of the house, and the gambler's heavenly jackpot may not be collected until after the gambler shuffles off this mortal coil. The dead have no earthly agency that they can seek redress with for false advertising, and fake claims of eternal bliss for themselves, or eternal damnation of the work colleagues, neighbours, and others that they cursed whilst living.

    I was part of the liturgical theatre at my local church many decades ago, and I have to confess that being part of the whole church great panjandrum seemed quite compelling at the time, until I started looking deeper at it with more critical, skeptical eyes. By my early 20's the Christian 'Trinity' had joined the pantheons of gods of long dead (Ancient Greek, Roman, and Norse religions et al). Entertaining to read about, but not worth the time and effort and shekels worshiping them. Christianity is not a dead religion quite yet, but it is certainly becoming quite cadaverous looking.
     
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  19. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    short answer... who are you... Sir to proclaim for all... such an answer?

    where do YOU get the authority to give such an answer...

    IMHO you have NO RIGHT to tell me or anyone else how or when or where I worship... NONE!

    AND

    it is also my opinion... NEITHER does our Government... or our politicians...

    or the courts for that matter... NONE of them...

    if you wish I will explain why I take this stance... but I doubt you actually want to hear it...

    get the very strong impression your mind is already made up...
     
  20. Garand69

    Garand69 Monkey++

    Allowing the Government to determine what is and is not essential is ridiculous, and it will only be worse next time.

    The only person that determines if my job is essential is my employer. The only thing that determines that their business is essential is their customers. Church is the same way with 1 massive exception, It is protected by the 1st Amendment (and sooner or later, the 2nd Amendment).

    That being said, I do not "NEED" a church to worship the Big Guy. My church is in my heart and in my head, BUT, I will fight for the rights of those that want/need to go to church.
     
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