also makes for some interesting reading.... makes ya think... hmmmm.... might be a good idea to pay attention to how/what some folks are thinking? Socialist Rifle Association
Here's the problem, outside of the obvious downsides to a socialist structure, there exists a fundamental problem with socialism. I've studied cultural anthropology for decades, which helped also when I was doing counseling. Yes I understand that's a totally left sided course however it helps one understand structures of cultures, not just the history and that was what I was interested in. It is also I know that in our history what caused the breakdown in a socialist structure. First, a social structure is not some hidden demon idea, looking for world takeover. In fact in our daily lives many of those here engage in will be considered socialist interactions. We belong to stores, groups and even clubs were the wealth is equally spread, and controlled by certain individuals. Instead of calling it a social structure we call it a co-op. A co-op is where individuals grouped together and invest. They may invest ownership, or cooperation. Similar to this is also the barter system where people have similar items and they're looking for similar items and return. Is an equal system of trades. Which brings us to that word socialism is a trade-off. If you take time to read through the Reddit articles that you provided in OP, you will see the breakdown of their understanding. This breakdown, is when they are looking at political aspects even addressing the president and how they could help address these concerns. They also discussed many topics where their input and their ideas are important to structure the new America according to them. I am paraphrasing but if you read the articles you get the idea that they have a idea of influence that will change the structure. What they are ignoring is once a socialist structures in place, input from the public ends immediately. You can look at any existing social structure that was a democracy or a capitalist structure prior. All the input that was given banished the minute a social structure or communist structure is involved. It may appear open to public input only in the way that a public boat may take place in rare occasions. But overall a structural socialist country, does not allow public political changes. In fact it creates a structure of how that works, which is much more strict and is under the control 100% of the government itself. The government provides materials, jobs, and income it also provides the balance of political achievements. In the USA right now political achievements are created by individuals. We vote, for bills, laws, ballots and many other items that we share. We have the right to collect certain amounts of money for the jobs that we prefer form. We also have the ability to change that balance based on our own production and self worth to the company. That also changes,what the liberal side of things is ignoring, is that their personal rights they are enjoying right now will vanish. As there is no place for special interests in a social structure. The only self-interest or special interest is in the hands of those in charge of distribution of rights. This is why a structure based on the Socialist or Communist ideas is a death blow to freedom and free thought. It is not an evil or destructive government. It is a structural system based on solid unwavering ideas. If you look at Nazi Germany there is a good example in a huge way how a country went from freedom of thought, and freedom of choice. To freedom of what was chose for you. In fact Germany of the time made the individuals feel as if they were providing in abundance of human rights. Unaware at the time that they were being given rights. Only specifically and controlled entirely. So what many are missing today about a communist structure or social structure is, that once you go for such a thing you will never vote for rights or control of rights again it ends when those systems become part of the government structure. Is this how it works this is how it's always worked. That is why democracies in capitalism are a more open structure for free people as it allows movement within the government and changes within a government with a greater ease under the understanding of the laws that are structured. The difference is socialism and communism do not adjust, there are no changes unless the government chooses those changes and those are not inspired by the people inspired by the government itself. Moreover than not it limits what the public is receiving and seldom ever increases once the initial structure has began. In the beginning they always look good, housing, jobs, and income are all provided equally. He gives the impression of a system of interaction and peaceful people living in a community providing for each other. But is everything but that because the average person chooses to work that way within the community has done so by choice not by force, and not by law.
Might be fun to use the group to set up a big "burning man" meet and greet for them out in the desert somewhere like a bombing range.
@Salted Weapon Interesting and I agree. True Socialism does goes against the individual's God given rights, just ask the folks in Venezuela. However, most Westerners, for example Bernie Sanders, aren't true Socialists. They are more of a watered-down mix of Capitalism and Socialism, like many first-world countries (UK, Germany, Australia, Norway..etc..). They have some Socialist policies but basically are a Capitalist country. Well, that's most Westerners...but I haven't got the slightest idea what the hell AOC is and I would bet no one else truly knows yet either, not even her Democrat buddies...but they will. These SRA yahoos do have a point about the US should stay the hell out of Venezuela. IMHO no matter what we do down there, good or bad or ugly, it will be interpreted to be very bad or very ugly... so we should distance ourselves as far away as possible from that place...but, of course, we won't.
Personally I think the fundamental ideas of both capitalism and socialism are good. They work at the level of village but not at the global level. At the level of village or tribe you know your neighbors, know who is a freeloader and who is just going thru a tough time. At the level national or global I just think there are too many human differences for either one to be effective. At a larger level, both capitalism and socialism are cold cruel ideals that are applied generically to make us all slaves. There is nothing wrong with either ideal. The devil is in the application. It's why I am an advocate of state republics rather than a national government.
ahhh.... maybe I got it wrong somewhere back? that WAS the original idea... somewhere in the late 60's or early 70's a law was passed that made some big changes.... IIRC that law required all sates to collect tax's and send em to the federal gov to be EVENLY redistributed among the states... when that happened the fed could punish a state for not doing what the fed required by withholding their tax money...? thus giving the fed massive leverage over all the states... and thereby giving the fed much greater control... before that states collected tax's n spent em in that state... ??? maybe I misremember?
Around the 800- 1300 AD, most small European societies were socialist in nature, but were soon dominated by Monarchies. The socialist design allows for an easy transition to having a singular ruler. As was noted in small cooperatives it works, but really more then a 1000 you would start to see those break down. Here in our country the small examples of this are seen. We give free food, then people want free housing, and special treatment at job, then want paid education. Then free healthcare. The breaking down in the USA can be seen by using this model as a solution and it already failed in just a few decades. As we try and force feed socialism more areas will break.
My own particular design for a community is almost purely capitalistic . If person cannot will not work then he needs another individual to support him it does not come from a government . If he get's no support he is free to leave , expelled . A man's good behavior, productivity, and cooperation with others makes him a valued member of a society . Ones investment in this society earns the right to vote in it , not those that are a burden to society. Children are a burden till they begin to work and earn respect like every other person , till then, their parents bear that load , children with out parents need a sponsor ,but if no sponsor is found they are not supported, expelled . Some one in desperate need might learn gratitude and cooperation, no person is owed sustenance . Much as I believe in mercy, but with out gratitude we have see the result of welfare queens. Some one breaking laws is suspended and unless otherwise supported are suspended. and or expelled. citizens are responsible to become productive in business and bring skills necessary to build and sustain the community ,, even competitive business such as clothing manufacture and cobblers and carpenters . each have a special quality and the community can chose the quality they can afford . This competition builds excellence and quality and value even personal value. something socialism is lacking.
You would have to be really bad off not to work at something,like picking up litter,etc. I remember one time here local that women able to work had to work for the town cleaning or other lite work. There was a company that hired welfare workers to count and put bolts and nuts in boxs for shipment. They made common labor and were still able to draw welfare check. They had to show up at least three days or were disqualified for welfare. When I was a young child the gov passed out surplus food every month,meat,flour,cornmeal,salt,sugar,eggs,and also soap,toothpaste ,etc. They got a very small check enough to pay other household expenses. We had a charity hospital also. But the one thing we did not have were drugs,and out of control crime. No tv,telephone,few cars,very little free stuff,you worked and paid cash for what you got. Be real nice to do that today. You went to town once a month on a Saturday. Most people had a hog fatting,chickens and eggs and a garden big enough for whatever family they had. It’s bad wrong when someone on welfare gets more than a person working 40hrs a week.
