Worrisome forced relocation

I for one am not paranoid, I don't think. But I can see the possibilities of following the path this nation is on, and I don't like it, no, not at all. I'll soon be in position to applaud the turnaround, or keep out of the limelight, and stand on my side of the line. I'm convinced that there will be depth, different folks will set their lines ahead of me, and some behind. I've yet to suss out how deep or how shallow that ranking will be. I suspect I'll be up front, simply because I have lots less to lose. Those with more to lose will simply not take the risks.

 

Here are a few quotes from a book that I am currently reading that I thought were aprapo to this discussion.

" I never would have agreed to the formulation of the Central Intelligence Agency back in '47, if I had known it would become the American Gestapo." - Harry S. Truman

" The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover

" Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th." - George W. Bush

" God told me to strike at Al Qaeda and I struck them. And then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did. With the might of God on our side we will triumph." - George W. Bush

" I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator." - Adolph Hitler

" Terrorism is the best political weapon, for nothing drives people harder than the fear of sudden death." - Adolph Hitler
" Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal." - Dr. Martin Luther King

But many people find it inconcievable that our government or "They" would or could conspire against it's own people. Why is this so hard to imagine. When the proof that it has at least considered it blatantly evident for any who care to search for it.

In 1997 a document from the Kennedy era was declassified. It's sobering contents have been reported on by ABC news and The Baltimore Sun newspaper among others. The entire contents can be seen at many reputable online sources including, The National Security Archive. And it is thoroughly reviewed in the 2001 book " Body Of Secrets" by author James Bamford.

This document compiled by the Joint Chiefs of Staff recommends staging fake terrorist attacks against American citizens and military targets to sway public support for an invasion of Cuba.

Some specific recommendations were;

1) Sink an American ship at Guantanmo bay or destroy American aircraft and blae it on Cuban Forces.
2) Harrassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of military aircraft by Mig-type planes
3) Assasination attacks on Cuban dissidents living in America

The plan is summarized as follows;

"Such a plan would enable a logical build-up of incidents to be combined with other seemingly unrelated events to camouflage the ultimate objective and create the neccessary impression of Cuban rashness and irresponsibility on a large scale."

"The desired result from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba to develope an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere."

I don't know about you but that sounds like a conspiracy to me.

Something a little more modern? How about the 1997 "Project for the New American Century"?

A Washington based think tank created in 1997 by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz to name just a few of the founding members.

The PNAC's recommendations?

1) Massive hikes in military spending
2) The establishment of military bases in Saudi Arabia and Iraq
3) US willingness to violate international treaties
4) US control of the worlds energy sources
5) US developement of space based weapons
6) US developement of "Advanced forms of biological warfare that can target specific genotypes"
7) US willingness to use nuclear weapons to achieve it's goals
8) Prepare for future conflict with China and Russia

The proposal is found in it's entirety at the PNAC website

Granted much of their recommendations are innocous and I even support many of them, but the most ominous quote from this proposal comes in the summation.;

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event- like a new Pearl Harbor."

Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

Another scenario that is not as blatant but should give any thinking person pause;

In 1995 petroconsultants shocked the oil industry with their report "World Oil Production, 1950-2050".
In which they predicted that global oil production would peak sometime shortly after the year 2000 and would decline by as much as 50 percent by 2050.

The creation of a pipeline from the Persian Gulf to the oil rich Caspian sea took on an urgent priority for both oil companies and the US Government. This pipeline had to cross Afghanistan. The oil company Unocal invited leaders of the Taliban government to Houston Texas where they were treated like dignitaries. Negotiations for the pipeline were begun and continued until August of 2001 when they fell apart, allegedly because of Taliban demands for too much money.

Within months of 9/11 the US invaded Afghanistan and deposed the Taliban. Former Unocal employee Harmid Karzai was installed as president and construction of the pipeline was immediately started.

A conspiracy?

Lets look at another result of this "New Pearl Harbor"

The Patriot Act was passed by lawmakers who have admitted to not even reading it. They should have. Some of it's provisions are truly frightening and sets the stage for a possible future police state.

It allows the government to;

1) Search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist in terror investigations
2) Imprison American citizens indefinately without a trial
3) Monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity
4) Conduct closed once-public immigration hearings, secretly detain hundreds of people without charges, and encourage bureaucrats to resist public records requests

Section 802 (a)(5) of the Patriot Act defines "Domestic Terrorism" as "activities that...involve acts that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any state and appear to be intended to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion."

According to this vaque definition, Rosa Parks would have been considered an "enemy combatant" and as such could have been legally incarcerated at Guantanamo Bay indefinately without charges or trial.

And "We the People" the last check and balance in our governmental system have set back and allowed this to happen without protest. And you find it inconcievable that those branded as "enemies of the state" couldn't be rounded up and imprisoned because their fellow citizens would rise up and prevent it?

You have more faith in your fellow man than I do Mortis.

Is it possible for a conspiracy to take over our government and to create a draconian police state exist, and have any chance to succeed?

Why don't we hear from someone who actually lived through a country that desended into a police state.

Professor Milton Mayer
He was a German professor that lived through the Nazi era. his book "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1939-1945" is a very eye opening book.

"Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained, or, on occasion, "regretted" that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must someday lead to, one no more saw it developing than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is suddenly over his head."

A couple of quotes;

In regards to those who were speaking out against the Patriot Act, Attorny General John Ashcroft said " your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to Americas friends. They encourage good people to remain silent in the face of evil." and this; " those who oppose us are providing aid and comfort to the enemy." (the definition of treason, a crime punishable by death.)

" An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." John Ashcroft? No.

Adolph Hitler, defending the creation of the Nazi Gestapo.

What about a former Vice President?

Henry Wallace, FDR's second vice president had this to say in the New York Times April 9, 1944 ;

"The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way, what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. They claim to be super-patriots but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution."

If none of this sways you, how about hearing from another Marine. A highly decorated Marine Corp Major General. Awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor on two occasions, widely considered one of the greatest Generals in American military history.

Surely someone like that could not be a wild eyed "conspiracy theorist".

In his book " War is a Racket" Major General Smedly Butler writes;

"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majoriity of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benifit of the few, at the expense of the masses."

" The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6% over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100%. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag."

" I spent 33 years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the United States Marine Corps. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for big business, for Wall Street, and for Bankers."

Major General Butler testified before congress of a fascist conspiracy to overthrow the US government.

In 1934 Butler went to congress and told of a plot by several wealthy and powerful men to cause an incident that would force the removal of FDR from office and the creation of a "secratary of general welfare". These men included wall street traders, and men tied to banks such as JP Morgan and to companies like General Motors.

They wanted General Butler to lead 500,000 veterans on a march on the White House to protest not recieving their war bonuses. This march would turn violent and they would storm the White House. These men would be provided with guns and ammunition from the Remington Arms Company owned by Irenne Du Pont one of the plotters.

Another plotter Gerald Macguire, a bond trader, told Butler " You know the American people will swallow that. We have got the newspapers. We will start a campaign that the Presidents health is failing. Everyone can tell that by looking at him, and the dumb American people will fall for it in a second."

This led to the creation of the McCormick-Dickenstein Committee to investigate these allegations( the pre-cursor of the Un-American Activities Committee). On Feb. 15th, 1935 the committee released it's report which confirmed that everything General Butler reported was true.

The report was widely ignored by the media with a few exceptions where General Butler was ridiculed.

In 1975 Speaker of the House John McCormack stated " If General Butler had not been the patriot that he was, and if the plotters had been able to maintain their secrecy, the plot certainly might very well have succeeded, having in mind the conditions existing at the time...if the plotters had gotten rid of Roosevelt, there is no telling what might have taken place."

The goals of these powerful men who sought to overtly overthrow our government in the 1930's, have been completely achieved covertly over the last couple of generations.

So a fascist style police state geared towards maintaining an abundant energy supply and continued economic growth, using everything in it's power to maintain power and control of a people could not exist here in America?


It not only could but has. It existed for a couple of hundred years. It was called slavery.

Let me end this as I began it, with a few quotes;

"Facts do not cease to be facts simply because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

" For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities, and are often more influenced by things that seem than things that are." - Niccolo Machiavelli

" A pleasant illusion is better than a harsh reality." - Christian Nevell Bovee

"The truth will set you free, but first it will make you sick." - Unknown

" Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko." - John Loeffler




And by the way Mortis, you seem to be trying to indentify me with someone I presume you know. I have no idea who O'Brian or Parsons are.
And this obssession with Diane Reynolds? What is the point?
Allow me to quote a current commercial;

"Yeah I have a response, Uhm, what?"

 

Agent provocateur

One might assume from the proximity to the rest of the thread, that such a person could be suspected to be among us. We are watched, if not in person, then surely by bots that report to their masters when some one or another key word pops up in some context that we haven't a clue about. That said, I for one don't give a rip. I do not feel like we have been provoked beyond the daily turd hurling in the media as reported here and in the mainstream.

But if someone wants to organize a few thousand gun owning, law abiding citizens to visit DC, coincidently on the same day for an unarmed rally on the Mall, I could be persuaded to join the throng. Camera in hand, uv cuss.

 

"Evaporate" in the context used meant melt into invisible action, not melt into inaction. As will I and a couple others well enough known

 

Mortis's premise would be valid given the current situation. The flaw in his reasoning lies in the fact that you presuppose that the mindset of the public would be the same as it is today.

I agree that if an order were issued today to start rounding up people and confiscating weapons that it would be widely resisted and would fail.
But, if several US cities were attacked, either biologically or nuclear, and there was mass chaos and panic then the situation would be vastly different.

Using post Katrina New Orleans as a template how could you argue that it could not happen? Weren't the soldiers and Blackwater mercs American citizens? Don't the National Guard troops that were breaking down doors and confiscating weapons, forcing people from their homes, take the same oath as the rest of our military do? It didn't prevent them from "just following orders" did it.

Now extrapolate that to a massive national scale and tell me that it could not happen, that it isn't possible.

You severely underestimate the power of fear on a population. The motto of these new world order, globalist organizations has always been "Out of Chaos Order". They full well know that it will take massive chaos and fear to bring about a voluntary surrender of rights and soveriegnty. And it will be voluntary.

I don't have the exact quote in front of me but IIRC, Henry Kissinger, I beleive it was, is quoted as saying, and I paraphrase, "Let one nuclear bomb explode in a major US city and the American people will be clamoring for UN peacekeepers to patrol their streets." or something to that effect.
Our military is spread all over the globe, and now our state national guard troops are too. So much so that many governers are complaining that in a disaster they do not have enough guard troops to handle it.

It is not far fetched or a big leap of the imagination to see the outcry for our "friends" to help us out in the event of a major catastrophic incident here.

But I do agree with Mortis on one point, the ownership of firearms by so many American citizens does give those who would impose their will upon us a moment of pause.
But only a moment. 80 million gun owners. OK. But how many would use them to defend this nation? Or their nieghbors? Very few I would surmise.

This is where Mortis and I differ. He seems to have a blinding faith in his fellow man. I don't. I know how fast "We the People" fold. I have no doubt that 90% of gun owners would hand their guns over immediately if they though they would go to jail for failure to comply. I have seen first hand how fast those who cry "From my cold dead hands" cower and shake whenever real pressure is brought to bear. When the real potential of being arrested is put before them. When illegal search and siezures come to their doors. They hide in their closet and hope to escape unnoticed.

No, I hold out little hope that the peolpe would rise up and prevent an abuse of power, or that our soldiers and police would refuse to follow orders. Anyone who has that fantasy needs to move to that beach front property and live happily evermore in the happy world of Oz.

There will be a few, and a very few, who fade off into the mist when all of this occurs. Those few who have watched the signs, who have dared to predict the impossible, to expect the improbable. Those who weren't afraid to consider that it actually could happen here. And then there will be those who stand by and cry, I told you it was OK, why this is not anything bad, they are from the government, there here to help. It's for our own good. This is not martial law, this is just a temporary security measure. Ovens, those aren't ovens they are tanning beds, now move along.

 

A Timeline to Tyranny

The top ten advances towards tyranny in the United States during the tenure of the Bush administration, from the Patriot Act to the latest expansion of the illegal eavesdropping surveillance program.
1) The USA Patriot Act
The party line often heard from Neo-Cons in their attempts to defend the Patriot Act either circulate around the contention that the use of the Patriot Act has never been abused or that it isn't being used against American citizens. Here is an archive of articles that disproves both of these fallacies.
The Patriot Act was the boiler plate from which all subsequent attacks on the Constitution were formed.
2) Total Information Awareness
"Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database," infamously wrote New York Times writer William Safire, announcing the birth of Total Information Awareness, a kind of Echelon on steroids introduced a year after 9/11.
TIA was not canned, it was simply removed from the newspaper, renamed and continues to operate under a guise of different programs.
(Article continues below)
3) USA Patriot Act II
The second Patriot Act was a mirror image of powers that Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler gave themselves. Whereas the First Patriot Act only gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganized the entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government under the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command.
The Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very structure the definition of dictatorship.
4) Military Commissions Act
Slamming the final nail in the coffin of everything America used to stand for, the boot-licking U.S. Senate gave President Bush the legal authority to abduct and sexually mutilate American citizens and American children in the name of the war on terror in passing the Military Commissions Act and officially ending Habeas Corpus.
There is nothing in the "detainee" legislation that protects American citizens from being kidnapped by their own government and tortured.
The New York Times stated that the legislation introduced, "A dangerously broad definition of “illegal enemy combatant” in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted."
Yale Law Professor Bruce Ackerman states in the L.A. Times, "The compromise legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."
Similarly, law Professor Marty Lederman explains: "this [subsection (ii) of the definition of 'unlawful enemy combatant'] means that if the Pentagon says you're an unlawful enemy combatant -- using whatever criteria they wish -- then as far as Congress, and U.S. law, is concerned, you are one, whether or not you have had any connection to 'hostilities' at all."
5) John Warner Defense Authorization Act
The Bush Junta quietly "tooled up" to utilize the U.S. military in engaging American dissidents after the next big crisis, with a frightening and overlooked piece of legislation that was passed alongside the Military Commissions Act, the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which greased the skids for armed confrontation and abolishes posse comitatus.
6) Illegal Domestic Wiretapping Program
"Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials," reported the New York Times on December 16, 2005
The secret warrantless spying program was a complete violation of both the 4th Amendment and FISA.

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7) Expansion of Illegal Domestic Wiretapping Program
Not content with now being lawfully allowed to force ISP's and cell phone companies to turn over data about customers without a warrant, the Bush administration is pushing for even more authority to spy on American citizens, and has already been handed a 6 month window within which to impose any surveillance policy it likes, and for that program to remain legal in perpetuity.
The administration has a 6 month window in which to impose any surveillance program it chooses and that program will go unchallenged and remain legally binding in perpetuity - it cannot be revoked. Under the definitions of the legislation, Bush has been granted absolute dictator status for a minimum of 6 months.
If he so chooses, and so long as it's implemented within the next half year, Bush could build a database of every website visited by every American - and the policy would be immune from Congressional challenge even after the "surveillance gap" legislation reaches its sunset
8) Martial Law Presidential Decision Directive 51
New legislation signed on May 9, 2007, declares that in the event of a "catastrophic event", the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power.
The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive, which also places the Secretary of Homeland Security in charge of domestic "security", was signed earlier this month without the approval or oversight of Congress and seemingly supercedes the National Emergency Act which allows the president to declare a national emergency but also requires that Congress have the authority to "modify, rescind, or render dormant" such emergency authority if it believes the president has acted inappropriately.
9) Destruction of the Dollar
Former World Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz has predicted a global economic crash within 24 months - unless the current downturn is successfully managed. Asked if the situation was being properly handled Stiglitz emphatically responded "no,".
Stiglitz caused controversy in October 2001 when he exposed rampant corruption within the IMF and blew the whistle on their nefarious methods of inducing countries to fall under their debt before stripping them of sovereignty and hollowing out their economies. Stiglitz agreed that the process of hijacking and looting key infrastructure on the part of the IMF and World Bank, as an offshoot of predatory globalization, had now moved from the third world to Europe, the United States and Canada.
10) Amnesty & The North American Union
The open plan to merge the US with Mexico and Canada and create a Pan American Union has long been a Globalist brainchild but its very real and prescient implementation on behalf of the Council on Foreign Relations has finally been reported on by mainstream news outlets.
The framework on which the American Union is being pegged is the NAFTA Super Highway, a four football-fields-wide leviathan that stretches from southern Mexico through the US up to Montreal Canada .Coupled with Bush's blanket amnesty program, the Pan American Union is the final jigsaw piece for the total dismantling of America as we know it.

 

Alrighty, then. I just went thru this thread, stem to stern, and I come up with this, distilled.
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A situation happens, and it doesn't matter what, that causes Martial Law declaration. In essence, this puts the military and paramilitary organizations of whatever stripe under fearless leader’s control. Regardless of the constitutional question, it is so for the scenario.

Mortis thinks that the various military organizations will not be able to control the situation because there are so many citizens armed and ready to resist. Statistics presented would point to that conclusion.

Minuteman has presented ways and means to get around that. Divide and conquer, so to say, using heavy force in small areas at a time, disrupt comms to prevent massed opposition.

Conventional wisdom said (some time ago) that it takes 9 attackers for every 1 defender to take out a properly set up defensive position. That assumes equality of armament which will not exist. Without overwhelming masses of armed opposition, the paramilitary will prevail.

Mob psychology says that a trigger (SHTF of any sort) will put people in panic mode, and they will follow any leader into chaos. If any leader comes up before the busses are loaded out, there might be a resistance formed.

Sun Tzu knew the art of war (read him if you haven’t, enlightening, and as applicable to slings and arrows as to M10, A10 and MBRs) “Know your enemy” Mort and MM agree on who the enemy leadership will be.

However, and I believe this is the crux of the matter, one side will have leadership (paramilitary, or however you define the conglomeration of law enforcement and posse commitatus violators) and the masses will have limited or none.

Question: Will the para-m follow illegal orders? Mort: no. MM: yes. Here, I tend to agree with MM. Following orders is the essence of military service, thinking is not allowed in mass movements. Failure to do so brings down the wrath of the brass hats, and examples will be made. Exceptions exist and they will desert and join those of us that will acquire the title of “insurgent.” Further exceptions exist as well. Some branches of the military are indeed taught to think. Not many. Mortis counts on them, minuteman thinks they are few and far between.

We do not “know our enemy.” Nor do we know our friends in this day and age.

Further thoughts?