'Demonic possession

I don't accept that my belief, or faith, are selfish, but rather returning to God what is rightfully His .
God made me ,and has the right to use me the way He intends .
Defiance for God's ownership is rebellion .
I worked in manufacturing stents, and flaws found ,usually Inclusions in material, are NOT a part of the design , by stringent requirement force some material to be melted down for some other purpose . Some materials cannot be melted down and must be burned .
God has some stringent requirements ,primarily obedience on a personal level . heaven is not for the self motivated but for the God motivated ,not by assumption but by relationship prayer and receiving direction and fallowing it. Jesus even reprimanded His disciples saying "why do you call me Lord and do not do the things I tell you ?"
False acclimation is a lie .
God does not compromise with lies.
Jesus said ," Satan is a liar and the father of it ."
Jesus warned , written in Matthew 7; 21,22,23, "Not every one that says to me Lord, Lord enters the kingdom of heaven but he that does the will of the Father...…. " (Works done in my name do not make a relationship) .(paraphrased )
The successful use of Jesus name does not certify one's relationship.
If God's instructions were to do nothing, and you act any way, even using Jesus name, your acting on your own. (rebellion)
If one chooses ignorance of God's awareness of them, even after having prayed, they are yet in unbelief . Going through motions or rituals does not manipulate God ,and one attempting to manipulate God attempting to bind with scriptures, is yet in rebellion.
Jesus provide the Holy Spirit to teach in His place, particularly how to pray .
Praying for others via God's instruction is about the least selfish thing one can do.

 

Thank you to Chellovek and MM. Explained very well.

 

Your faith is not selfish because you have faith. But what about those people that deny His existence? What about the ones that go through their lives saying there is no God and on their death bed or in a foxhole suddenly praying to Jesus to save them. Are they really Christians, accepting Christ as their savior or are they just paying to save their life? It is an interesting question. I recall Steve Jobs all his life denied the existence of God and as he left this life:

What does that mean, I do not know. But he looked past them and said, oh wow......

 

The decision on if they are Christians or not is up to their creator.

 

hmmm...

selfish?

by our very nature we are all selfish... can't be any other way... the only person we actually know much about is ourselves...

as to selfish act... you are aware the entire thing is predicated on each individual making their own choice...

I can not make such a choice for you or anyone else and vice versa...

timing seems to be an issue with some... and those that choose just before... it has to be genuine... so... well...

it does say who you are and were will matter later... so there is that...

as for me I have already chosen... did so long time ago... and have tried to follow proper like...

thing is I have been from time to time.... naughty ...

but who has not... thing is if I repent and clean things up... and request it... I am forgiven...

so this selfish thingy... don't make sense to me... sounds more like tryin to lay some kinda guilt trip on folks???

 

Human motivations exist on a spectrum, ranging from selfishness at one end and altruism at the other, and our actions during the course of our life will range along that spectrum. We are by nature social animals, and sometimes altruism, and reciprocated generosity are good survival strategies instead of being a curmudgeonly selfish Emanuel Kant.

Don't get hung up on the word "selfish" that Meat used. A better word to use in the context of there not being atheists in foxholes, would be "self serving" or "self interested".

I'm not sure whether you are being deliberately obtuse, or whether you are genuinely flummoxed. I suspect that the confusion is caused by your not considering the issue of foxhole conversion from the POV of an atheist. I may be wrong, but you are looking at the ethical issue from the POV of one who professes to be a theist, and has, presumably been firmly committed to their theistic beliefs for some time. If there is any guilt tripping being done, it is by theists trying to put the fear of hell into non-theists who may be at risk of dying unshriven.

As for myself, I have faced the imminent prospect of death three times. In none of those instances, did I appeal to god's providence for my survival, or attempt to sell my soul for a ticket to heaven, I had other priorities...

1. A head on car collision at high speed. I fully expected to die, and literally only had seconds to think before realising that collision would happen. My brief final thoughts were about my wife and family....didn't even give god a thought.

2. A near drowning. I was bodyboarding in a surf that was rougher than I had estimated. I got dumped by a big wave, lost my bodyboard when my leg leash parted ways with my bodyboard, and the zip down the back of my wetsuit unzipped and the wetsuit filled with water and acted like a sea anchor. I kept getting knocked over by succeeding waves, and had to work hard to get to shore, coordinating taking breaths and timing them with the gaps between succeeding dumpers. It took some time, and utterly exhausted me just getting to shore. There was no time to give god a thought...I was too busy surviving. There was only one person who was going to get me out of the sh!t I was in, and that was me.

3. As a pedestrian, I was knocked down by a large SUV at some speed, and was evacuated to an hospital ER by paramedics. There was a concern that I may have had serious internal injuries. I was conscious throughout the incident from impact, to admission to the recovery ward after being processed by the ER team. My priority was in helping the paramedics and the ER team to treat me, and to respond to their questions and directions...I spent zilch time and effort thinking about any god, nor did I even consider begging for any god's intervention,or seeking a conversion to theism.

It seems pointless appealing to supernatural entities one has no belief in....a fricken waste of time, resources and effort.

 

Don't you find it interesting that there are others the value your soul more than you do ?

 

Because a saying is clever doesn’t make it so. I’m sure there are good deeds that go unpunished. Of course I always get punished but I’m positive others don’t. Maybe.

 

hmmm... lot of what looks like word play here...

don't matter what ya do or why ya do it... my point is we are all locked inside a bag of meat...

I can not fully know or understand what another person is thinking... or why they do what they do...

I can... perhaps... PROJECT the what or why that I would do some things but that don't get the job done...

their reason could be very different...

therefore whether we like it or not everything we do in some manner begins with self... and pretty much ends with self...

you can call it this or that... but in the end most folks do what they prefer or what makes em FEEL good so to speak...

 

Who do you mean as others? Who cares for my soul more then I?

 

One of my highlights in the line-trade was when I was called a Devil worshipper by a Mormon crew member. At the time they (a Catholic, Mormon, and a Plymouth Bretheren) were chatting about their beliefs. I responded by saying “ two of you MF ers are going to join me in Hell. You can’t all be correct.” The Catholic was the only one laughing because he knew he was solid. Good times. (I think that’s fresh material but my apologies if a repeat)

 

This reminded me of something else. We were working near a cemetery and I asked the Catholic lineman how much money was enough to sleep in the cemetery. “No amount” was his response. Mine was $300. Just for the inconvenience. He also is terrified of snakes. In his mind The Devil, demons, and etc etc are real as can be. In mine it is utter nonsense. We both can’t be right.

 

You are correct, you cannot both be right, therefore in my mind you are wrong. Devils and demons exists. I may not believe in Santa and the Easter bunny but I do believe that there is an unnatural evil that exists. I also believe in unexplained miracles.

I would not sleep in a cemetery. It seems disrespectful to those resting in peace.

 

I know plenty of people that have had very serious encounters with paranormal who are not religious at all ..
And why is it so difficult to believe. many of you believe the weather man, the stock market, politicians , advertising on the products you buy, and so forth.
Because you can test them ? sure ,
The paranormal can be tested as well. People do it all the time . It's how they get caught in dangerous cults . Even government officials get caught up in this dangerous business becoming more bold and dangerous than they had in the past .
many hollywood stars have openly admitted selling their soul to the devil. it's nothing new.
I am so surprised the those that seem so knowledgable in many things, are ignorant of these facts .

 

^

That’s why I demanded ca$h. Inconvenient and disrespectful to the skeletons.

 

The man that seeks excuses with find them.
the man that seeks to blame will find them to blame.
But God looks for the man honestly looking for Him,
not for excuses, or blame, but for Him.
Knowing what I'm made of, and all the influences in my life , God knows where my heart is really at .
God has no need to compromise His values, no need to compromise at all actually .
And God does show preference one over another , they who seek honestly to obey Him in a personal level He will bless, and those that chose to rebel no preference what so ever.
Claiming a title dishonestly, does not make it so.
Claiming to be a conservative, yet living like a liberal, is an obvious lie . Basing one's life on a lie is no favor with God or man .
The hypocrisy of claiming to accept the differences of others yet condemning a group with higher standards, is a lie.
And the hypocrisy of claiming to be a believer yet living as though what God thinks does not matter is a hypocrisy / lie as well .
God cares about the person hence He sent His son to provide salvation, from both the weight of isolation from God and for the Holy spirit to link fellowship with God. .
Demons believe in God and they fear Jesus name. and those also that Obey God in their life.
By personal experience I know this to be fact .
The sin (rebellion) God does not compromise with .
Those making false claims of faith, living with out God's Holy Spirit influence, are judged as the false teacher they are.
God is selective . Jesus laid it out repeatedly in the gospels .
So are you looking for excuses, or blame , or do you want to have God's preference on you ?

 

In my case it’s my mother. She’d like to see me again in Heaven some day. In order for me to get there however I’ll have to say things I don’t believe. *scratches my head*

 

Must be a red letter day for ghrit.

Why should something be valued, such as a 'soul', the evidence for which existence is not particularly compelling? It would help in this discussion if there was some common understanding on what a soul is, its function, and how it works whilst one is alive, and and how it functions after death. Different faith traditions have different concepts about the soul, and how many of them a person has. Soul - RationalWiki

Perhaps the following Youtube clips explain the problems that substance dualists have in explaining immaterial substance (such as souls) when arguing for 'Substance Dualism'. Dualism - RationalWiki



Before one can argue that people, other than myself value my soul more than I do, one needs to first establish that souls actually do exist, and that I would necessarily possess one that I could undervalue.

This is assuming that the 'Creator' is the god of the Christian Bible. Christians will be sh!t out of luck if the 'Creator' is a deity of some different flavour; and in the case of a deistic 'Creator' (which many US founding fathers were partial to believing in), he, she, it, they, ze, or hir may not give a toss as to how theists label themselves, or label each other, the deistic creator/s has/have moved on to other projects, with no apparent continuing interest or involvement with their cosmic creations.