'Demonic possession

I once dealt with a guy who believed his forearm was possessed. As I was negotiating with him to disarm himself he started to cut it off at the elbow....I also once dealt with a guy who cut off his penis and threw it out a window so it could be free.... forearm guy was dead serious, penis guy just loopy !

 

Could it be that both were cases of delusional thinking? A sincere commitment to a delusion may be indicative of psychopathology rather than of supernatural demons existing in reality.

 

I certainly do not believe either was possessed Chell. Both had significant presenting mental health issues. No if those issues were not known to me at the time, I can say forearm guy was otherwise fairly rational and would have presented as such in most environments (till he started sawing his arm off). Such cases I think give rise to a belief in something unnatural being in play....as it is hard to explain the behaviour any other way.

Penis guy was mad, howling at the moon mad.

 

Demonic possession is spiritual (evil) slight of hand not all demonically possessed people look like mole people all the time, Satan was considered the most beautiful angel.

Explain drug kingpins that can operate a billion dollar operation and at the same time order whole families murdered allow their members to kidnap and hold young girls as prostitutes when they themselves have children. Defining and understanding that demonic possession is not able to be divined by non Christians as it is a spiritual manifestation not always a physical trait like puking pea soup speaking Latin backwards or speaking in voices that are scary, you better watch for the ones that speak smooth as honey and never curse and smile like an innocent child or some TV preachers.

One Gift of the Spirit is discernment and no one that is not of Gods people (Christian) can have that gift. or any of the others without some twist to them.

1) Word of Wisdom
2) Word of Knowledge
3) Faith
4) Gifts of Healing
5) Working of Miracles
6) Prophecy
7) Discerning of Spirits
8) Divers (or different) kinds of Tongues
9) Interpretation of (different) Tongues

best analogy is if you don't have a triple AAA card if you break down, no ones coming thousands of times a day people survive or are saved by their 6th sense if you believe in nothing just where does that sense come from ? and why are there only so many if we are in control why can we not go beyond and when we do why does that bring about mental aberrations Alister Crowley is a good example, right off the deep end.

 

(embolding mine)

It's an unfalsifiable claim. It's like a heads (the "The god's people (Christians) have discernment) " win, and tails (the non god's people (everyone else who is not a True Christian ™)) loses, kind of a wager.

Though it has to be said...the "spiritual discernment" claim, when followed by a little $eed-gift $oliciting, is evidence that the "Spirit of discernment" is a good little earner for some running the spiritual crapshoot con...the house wins come what may....whenever there are 'believers' willing to play.

google for the URL if you could be bothered looking for the "spiritual" huck$ter using that $chtick to part 'True Believers™' from their money.

 

I have been visited by an Angel. Sorry, nothing prophetic. The Angel kept a hand on my foot so that I could sleep when broken of body and spirit but recently rescued from evil men.

If there can be merciful grace like that then there must be heinous and devious evil that whispers to folks to hit crack pipes, molest children, and abuse authority. It probably always starts with innocent hints at the beginning....

 

true... there are folks that are in such things for money n such... however

most that have such a gift realize it's mainly intended for their own use...

and they can share info freely if they so chose... when they want some sort of benefit for sharing...

most likely a scam and are to be avoided... and not trusted... even if they prove accurate later... the other team does things too...

how's that go? to good to be true probably is?

 

chellovek, it's simple if you do not know the team your playing for, your not on the field have no idea of the rules or what game your playing or know the score if your wining or loosing or if there is anyone rooting for you to win or loose. Just saying there is no God doesn't make it so it's like saying you don't believe in unicorns, because you would be wrong unicorns existed. problem is you can prove anything people will reject it because truth is variable for those that have no anchor they just drift along until the bottom rots out and it sinks. If you listen to false prophets and the Bible is very clear there are many of those. Anyone can fall prey to slick con artists, do we chuck it all in because of it, If that were the case no one learn to ride a bike win at any sport or prevail against any tough problem, we would just fall apart and crawl to a safe space.

 

The old saying "there are no atheists in fox holes" tells you all you need to know about atheists.

 

That sentence makes little sense, even if it were linked to its following sentence....you have typed a sentence that starts with a conditional statement, without arriving at a conclusion. It is word salad gibberish. I realise that you are working towards some kind of metaphor, but the attempt is incoherent.

Theists usually have some kind of conviction that they believe they know which (god) team they are playing for, except that different theists are just as convinced that they are playing for the "right" team, and that most other theists and all non theists are playing for the wrong teams. Even theists that believe purportedly, the same god, disagree on the rules, and the penalties for breaching those rules by competing teams even within the same faith sect (e.g. catholics vs protestants, orthodox christians vs gnostic christians, orthodox jews vs reformed jews, shiites vs sunnis, let alone the Mormon theological "Pandora's box" of sects.( Mormon fundamentalism - Wikipedia ).

Your sentence assumes that which is yet to be demonstrated (by evidence), that there is a cosmic competition, that there is some kind of cosmic leaderboard, that the 'game of gods' has rules, or that there is a cosmic game creator, rule maker and referee, let alone that there is actually a 'game' at all. All that most theists would seem to have, is a preference for one or other, version of stone/bronze/iron age theological fan fiction, over alternative theological fan fiction narratives. (Scientology is a 20th century fan fiction narrative, so the genre, unfortunately hasn't died out yet. )

Merely asserting that there is a god, also doesn't make it so. As a fellow monkey would say, " Claims are made ", but claims ought not just be uncritically accepted at face value: each claim needs to be examined with a cautious degree of skepticism with regards to the evidence probative to the claim. Definition of PROBATIVE

A mildly Interesting apologetics video...but apart from three unidentified randoms expressing (with some variations) doubt about the existence of unicorns....it is not clear from the brief clips whether their epistemic commitments are actually to theism, or atheism...and, lacking context, there is little point paying those three any note, except as straw-men to be knocked down by the video clip's narrator. Most of the clip seems to devolve upon shoehorning the word unicorn onto the Rhinoceros, and harmonising the term unicorn to creatures (real or imaginary) referenced in the Christian Bible.

I have no belief in the existence of invisible unicorns, let alone their divinity, and so would therefore be an invisible Unicorn atheist. I cannot prove that Invisible unicorns do not exist, and therefore do not make that claim, but fortunately, I don't have the burden of proof that such a positive claim would require. However, those making the claim that Invisible unicorns do exist, do shoulder the burden of proof of establishing that claim as fact.

Of course invisible unicorn skeptics can try as they might to disprove the existence of invisible unicorns, but for every objection that an invisible unicorn skeptic raises, the true believer will offer some apologetic, some rationalisation, or some intellectual tap dancing deflection to make the truth claim unfalsifiable; and so it is with many theistic beliefs concerning supernatural entities.

Invisible Pink Unicorn - RationalWiki

(As an alternative to the Invisible Unicorn...insert Flying Spaghetti Monster or equivalent.)

I think you are making an argument for moral absolutism vs moral consequentialism but I could be wrong...perhaps you may wish to edit that part of your post to improve the coherence of that paragraph. Having said that...I am not tethered to an anchor, and my bottom is not at risk of rotting out...

These people are obviously experiencing demonic possession....



The devil's pipes says it all!

 

I recognize this as old play and regional dance, competition rituals traditions and just silliness and play. Before computers people did all manners of local dances experiment with their tools at hand testing skills at balance strength and skill.

I have done Indian leg wrestling and arm wrestling folk dance square dancing balancing tools on parts of the body I saw where the men were testing a trapping technique and the old lady jumping the broom is and old wedding custom and I have seen other similar customs as breaking bread w/ a gift of salt others do ax and knife throwing fire eating juggling, all of these people are only having fun or showing off.

I have only see a couple of true demonic possessions very different from minor possession or alcohol drug induced lapse of common sense which is at times temporary possession, this is obvious except to cynics when a persons mannerisms walk voice walking gate and other things that bare no semblance to the persons previous temperament.. there is another plane of existence where evil roams and some can move in and out of their dimension can move objects speak audibly physically manifest in this reality. An altered state of mind allows possession.

If this is nothing why is science trying to make contact with other dimensions when Nazi scientists were asked about where the ideas and information came from it was tapping into that realm Skrying staring into a mirror or 2 mirrors face to face looking into a candle flame or bowl of water some it as simple as sensory deprivation sitting in a dark room with no light. others scribble on a pad oh there are plenty of charlatans but there are some that can see beyond the pale and that dimension is not angelic. Look up JPL or Jack Parsons why does CERN have the icon of Shiva these are geniuses and they play games dancing in moonlight mock rituals -- why ? time is precious, time is money but they make time to act out cult like activities spend millions on grand opening ceremonies people do not wast money or time. There is a reason for everything they do.what do. People use the eye of Horace or hand gestures that have been written about in books for thousands of years as pagan celebrate pagan festivals dates times and in the time in the morning of demonic or pagan rights between 12 AM and 3AM and it is world before history and knowledge those things manifested with minor alterations in every civilization unless your unread this is easy to research and comes from both secular and religious sources. I have known witches white and black, Astrologers numerologist and card readers if it was not for their fanaticism and living by their actions in their differing philosophies makes it a religion.

It is no small thing that Alister Crowley's favorite quote was, "do as thou wilt" no law, rules no thought or concern for anyone but self. Why would governments kick him out of their countries if he was not undesirable

Either your unread, a skeptic, have willful ignorance, unbeliever, agnostic, or one of "them"

 

I disagree. It’s just a saying. I’m positive there have been millions of atheists in a foxhole. Fought and died without the promise of a selfish reward.

 

Just like "There will always be prayer in schools as long as there are pop quizzes". Went to school with a couple of atheists who never once prayed due to a pop quiz (or anything else for that matter).

No, not everyone falls back on "deathbed repentance" when it suits them. Not looking to get into a "right or wrong" debate, just saying that there are and most likely always will be atheists who go to the grave with their convictions, just like there are and always will be the religious that go to the grave with theirs.

 

selfish reward???? please clarify...

 

The imaginary reward that purportedly comes by accepting Pascal's Wager, while a quivering mass of anxiety, fear and defecation at the bottom of a foxhole.



The reward is a self serving imagined eternity in 'heaven' or 'paradise', and the avoidance of an imagined eternity of suffering and torment in 'hell'....unless of course one is a Calvinist, in which case the destination upon death on Earth has already been predestined (some believe doubly so); so last minute fox hole appeals to god's grace, would be pointless.

 

Chellovek explained it well.

 

I watched the video and did NOT see an answer as to why you consider it SELFISH reward...

again please clarify...

 

^I didn’t watch the video and I understood.

 

It is quite simple

First consider, what it is to be selfish....

Ask yourself....would going to an afterlife where one purportedly exists in a post temporal state of eternal bliss in the everlasting presence of god, in heaven or paradise, be a reward? Or a punishment?

Ask yourself, would being consigned to (one of the Christian versions of) hell for denying the divinity of the Christian godhead be a punishment....and avoiding that fate, by accepting Jesus Christ as one's personal saviour be a reward?

Ask yourself, would it be a selfish act (though I would have preferred the expressions "self serving" or "self interested"), to become a Christian convert, either in a foxhole, or in the extremis of imminent death, after living life as an atheist, to simply win the Christian theological carrot (of a berth in heaven)? Or avoid the Christian theological stick (of a berth in hell) ?

The rewards and punishments assumed in Christian theology are predicated upon the belief that such places as heaven and hell actually exist, and that that the godheads of Christian theology also actually exist. The claim that there are no atheists in foxholes falls upon the false notion that atheists will, or have invariably accepted Pascal's Wager, and that no atheist would refuse it. The claim that "there are no atheists in foxholes", is silly on its face; as silly as accepting Pascal's Wager itself....

Would an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity be very impressed by infidels trying to fake their way to paradise, or out of perdition, by making last minute self serving professions of belief???

 

Yes it would be. Because they would be saying they accept the Lord on their deathbed because they are scared of dying. Hard to imagine that one who spent their life denying all religions become a Christian in their last breaths. I guess it is one of those wait and see things in life.