Why? or Is it worth it?

To start IMHO I did not personally attack someone. I do not know this person and if I were to actually meet them might even like them

What I did at least in my mind was confronted an issue or attitude and I tried to explain why.

I shall again try but to tell ya the truth as I see it not sure I really want to bother... not real sure it's worth it. Many seem to support this person... which is fine... I support this person freedom to say what they believe or feel... (perhaps I will say more on that later)

what they say however... is another thing... (I may go more into that later as well)

That said I shall begin...

politics... I saw the words sent "political in nature" I have a problem with this... and over time many boards and such have gotten so they avoid such things... I suppose you could say they have been trained by certain folks of a certain political leaning? (as in hammered and called names and harassed by those people)...

why?

because the way I see it... while the subject matter to some may seem political IMHO this is NOT really about politics...

consider... it actually about how you will live and the life style you pass on to your descendants.

ya really... !

as Robert Kennedy said a society gets the kind of law enforcement it deserves... same with a political system... you, me, everyone is going to get the political system we ALLOW or accept...

furthermore silence with such things is consider by many as AGREEMENT!


"No matter what agenda the left is focused on, they are undoubtedly committed to it in ways that conservatives seem unable to achieve. Liberals stick together on every issue bound by the belief that they are working towards creating a better world, a state-run Utopia if you will, where everyone is equal, and no one is treated unfairly. Liberals, being collectivists, are willing to commit all their efforts in the push for this Utopia while conservatives, on the other hand, being individualists, have a hard time uniting around the very principles we claim to believe in. The nation is founded upon the principles of individual liberty, not collectivism; however, collectivism is one of the biggest attributes the left possesses as they all work in unison pushing the same narrative. The media certainly plays a role in this as they seem to be telling their audience what to believe about the issues facing us today.

The left has demonstrated that they are willing to lie, cheat and steal their way to the achievement of any goal. This is because they are operating on an “ends justify the means” mentality. This essentially means that the end goal of a state-run Utopia would ultimately create a better world for everyone; therefore, whatever method is employed in achieving it, is justified. They do not hold themselves back by notions of morality or concepts of right and wrong. If, for example, the passage of red flag gun confiscation laws leads to innocent people being disarmed for no reason and without due process there is no wrong committed because the end goal of ending the second amendment is being advanced. The conservative, or anyone who believes in principles and universal morality, would see this as an absolute wrong. To deprive an individual of liberty when they’ve broken no law while murderers are still murdering is the most egregious wrong that could be committed by the state. To the left, there is no right or wrong, only in the context of advancing socialism. If it serves to break down American culture while creating a socialist state, it is right as far as they are concerned.

Where does this “ends justify the means” mentality come from? Most recently it can be traced to Saul Alinsky and his book “Rules for Radicals.[1]” Alinsky argued that having morals stands in the way of achieving goals, so to say. To understand this better he refers to people unwilling to employ any means necessary as “means and ends moralists.” According to Alinsky, means and ends moralists, holding themselves back due to some misconceived perception of right and wrong, are always left behind, unable to reach their goal. If you ever find yourself wondering why liberals always seem so far ahead of the curve, this is why. Conservatives, believing in what Alinsky refers to as the “immaculate conception of ends and principles” are simply not willing to employ the same methods of deceit in achieving our goals. This is because most conservatives are guided by their religious conscience and belief in Christ. Liberals are mostly atheist. To them, there is no right or wrong in being deceitful, only the advancement of their agenda.

“To say that corrupt means corrupt the ends is to believe in the immaculate conception of ends and principles. The real arena is corrupt and bloody.” (Alinsky, 1971)"

Means and Ends Morality


NOTE: everything the Nazi's did was done through politics and was also legally done...

NOTE: they were SOCIALIST! also there is a party here in America you should be paying attention to... the DSA... Democratic Socialist of America... oh and hope you notice the colors they picked for their emblem... and their numbers are growing... and ya might want to look at their membership?

Democratic Socialists of America

think about it... right now you can pretty much live where you want... that is part of our freedom and the liberty to exercise it... it is based on INDIVIDUAL freedom... should this nation ever adopt socialism or communism... you will live were you are told to live! Resist? Stay where you are because it's yours? Oh really? Like that worked for such folks in under such governments...

from my viewpoint if we stay silent of play nice... we will lose... why? Because they don't and wont...

The confrontation came about due to what I see as very frequent attacks by a specific person on posts of a certain nature...

I asked questions and gave my reasons for asking those questions and what I got was...

"It seems that the author of post #1 would rather publically attack me in open forum rather than PM me with his objections, rather than defending the video that he reposted, or actually critiquing what I had written in posts #3 and #7. Lest I be banned from this thread for a diversion from the OP, I consider it fair to exercise the option of using an equal opportunity to refute the criticisms made of me personally....item by item.

I am happy for moderators to delete this post, or put it into the Inferno Master Dump Thread...Provided that the same fate is also applied to post #12, which is itself, irrelevant to the thread topic."


from my view post 12 is relevant to the thread... and the claim of a "public attack" is very often used by the types of people I asked about... I did not say this person was such... I ASKED... and no I did not expect a truthful answer... and in truth I pretty much got what I expected...

Now as to the subject matter...

IMHO this person does not have a clear understanding of this nation or its history...

Memorial Day: 5 things you didn't know about the holiday

nor it would seem the real cost of maintaining the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, or Bill of Rights...

and OVER TIME I see what to me is a certain consistency within such post ... and I confess... I also see many of the post regarding the said subjects as somewhat condescending, disparaging, and insulting especially to those that have paid a heavy price so we could maintain it...I suppose I should admit I see many that seem to be encouraging this behavior/attitude as so displayed...

HEY... all good...

I get that we should question... that for me is a given... and I applaud such... kind of a trust but verify thing... and it is our right to question...

Steve Hilton: Are you ‘triggered’ by the joyless, puritanical, xenophobic authoritarians of the left?


I can go on but think I will pause here and give folks time to consider it all... and reply with their own thoughts and opinions should they so choose...

I add the following...

appease? Did that work for Chamberlain?

In the European Appeasement Olympics, Who Wins?

Tommy Robinson Jailed for Reporting on U.K. Rape Trial

 

Not much to add as you pretty well covered it.

 

really? I am of the opinion there is a very great deal more I could add... which would point out more of the why...

and support my stance on this matter/issue...

I also understand it may mean nothing to some... which is OK...

 

At some point it is best to just call it a crap stew and let it go down the drain

 

are you real sure about that? and is anything else going down that drain with it?

 

Being cynical is more than a hobby it's my calling, and the left cannot stand a cynic because a cynic know B.S. when She or he sees it and hears it. There is no more target rich environment as the left, the fall all over themselves with their bleeding hearts asking us to give until it hurts, give up our guns our money our time to help the less fortunate, while they allow the less fortunate to come here, they ride in limo's with body guards and stay in fine hotels complementary meals and butt kissers announcing them as the honorable Mr or Mrs senator congressman or bat crap shoveler and on less than 200 grand a year retire millionaires with all their children holding solem positions in investment companies and on boards of banking and international business and they seem to be able to afford all their children to go to the most prodigious schools that cost 100,000 minimum a year. and graduate without debt now that,s magic their wives get opportunities that those not in the game ever get offered even with graduate degrees doctorates and a lifetime of 16 hour days.

We have a titled gentry a neuvo riche the American version of royalty they are snobs and arrogant knowing they are robbing the Tax payer blind and act insulted if any mere blue collar stiff asks a pertinent question, like where does your money come from, why do you have bodyguards with guns and we are not allowed to have firearms to defend ourselves against the rabble your laws allow criminals to walk free from prisons because you have squandered our tax dollars and given our portion to illegal aliens and terrorists and those who for generations have never worked a day. Tell us how handing millions to every country in aid helps us when we are unemployed at home. And why are our soldiers protecting foreigners poppy crops and our military doctors treating foreign injured from a religious civil war, and we cannot get healthcare here and we all pay taxes upon taxes on taxes and once we get to 62 to 65 we are forced to pay medicare and if we don't pay for supplement coverage we are on the hook for 20% +++ and we still have to make a copay on drugs even with the additional drug plan. and why are we in debt the amount you all have pissed away over the years to foreign aid and just what did that buy us ? peace ? nonproliferation of nuclear weapons ? more jobs ? better health care ? safer streets ? just what the hell have any of the politicians promised that they have delivered on democrat, independent or republican ?

We all need to keep sharp alert and agile and vote what is right for America and Americans.

 

I had to do a bit of searching to see what was going on here. This magic button usually works for me. YMMV.

 

Yep you are not going to change the opposition and the opposition is not going to change you. The leftist, liberal, socialist, communist, progressive,I am owed everything, snowflakes and their sympathizers are the Majority in this Country now days. Not by a huge margin yet, but they are growing in number with each passing year. It can be debated and argued but it is still true. From what I see it is highly likely that Trump will be our last president that that resembles anything remotely conservative for a long time to come, and truth be told Trump is not all that conservative. Socialism and all of its inbred children are leading the growing trend in the USA and that trend that was once dismissed as not even being remotely possible has now stepped fully through the door. As you point out they lie and are deceptive and don't care. What you neglect to mention is very few of the people they lie to and are deceptive with care either. Expose the lies and deceptions! Sure A lot of outrage and at the end of the day .......Can we have our free stuff now please master. Dependence on the system and someone else has been so engrained into people for the last 25-40 years that the flock of sheep had turned into a blind rampaging herd of sheep, that love only the hand that they perceive feeds them.

That is what we allowed to happen and gave birth to, instead of calling out the lies and deceptions decades ago we compromised and gave and got nothing in return and made a crap stew that has simmered until recently. Only time will cool that stew enough to be able to flush it. In time their system will fall in on itself, they will turn on each other and effectively dismantle themselves. The USA is going to to be a much different Country in 40 years from now than it is now, just as right now it is a much different and crappier country than it was 40 years ago. Do I like it, not even a little bit. Is there anything I can do to stop what is happening....... nope not a damn thing. What I can do is hold onto what is right and good and hopefully pass it on so it is still there when a better day arrives. Short of a civil war... that despite all of the rhetoric just is not going to happen, or a major SHTF event that culls the Urban herds in the Cities nothing is going to stop the leftist and their promises of free stuff, and cradle to grave coddling, we lost that opportunity a long time ago.

All of this talk of the constitution and what the founding fathers meant............. sadly means so much as fart gas. That document has been so subverted and bastardized since it was written as to be meaningless in the here and now. I can bore you with one example after another like Civil Forfeiture Laws. Again do I like it? Not at all but it is what it is and will not change for the better without real action, which there are a lot of words for but not much heart for. LOL our own Government has sold our Country out lock stock and barrel and used the constitution to do it. What they protect is not American interest or We The People's interest but their own and their biggest donors interest. Welcome to the world of absolutes where debating the individual is pointless because even when you win the debate it changes nothing.

 

Very good string of posts. Preaching to the choir in a very small church as our worship of God has now turned into a despised minority and somehow the new old religion based on the common good, nature, and cultural relativism has regained its old dominance. Somehow the good of the snail darter or some other "endangered" object, now trumps the good of the individual. I wonder if the sheep will graze in the ruins of Washington DC someday in our future as they did at one point in the ruins of Rome. At 80 it looks as if I will die before it all happens, or be encouraged to die, as the case may be. My biggest regret as an observer is that the collectivist have tried this many times over the years, they are very effective in gaining dominance, and every time it has lead to disaster, as their programs have never worked. Since it is at heart a religion and their beliefs are irrational in my belief system, it looks like they will in the long run win and out of the ruins a new system will emerge. Of course the fall of the Eastern Roman Republic lead to the Ottoman Empire and we all know how well that worked out in the long run. While our discussions may be meaningless to society as a whole and will not change anything, we followers of the old ways at least comfort our selves with the knowledge that we are not totally alone at this point in time, just a very endangered and despised minority.

 

Boy, is that ever true!

When I ran my own forums, especially early on, politics and religion were not allowed, primarily due to many people being so passionate about their respective parties. Later, we had an entire category of hidden (from the general membership and guest viewers on the forum) specific forums, where each member would have to specifically ask for permissions to view and post in them.

Forum rules were mostly the same for the politics and religion forums, giving leeway to allow more freedom of speech. Direct personal attacks were about the only thing not allowed. It seemed to work pretty well, actually. And, it accomplished what I wanted it to, by keeping politics and religion off the main forums.

Unfortunately, not only in our country. There are many leftist / socialist / liberal countries around the world. People are mad, to think they want more government control over their lives.

 

I do not know if anyone can tell but I like this forum it gives a lot of freedom and has reasonable rules of conduct, and reacts appropriately and thoughtfully.

let us consider that all politically restrictive governments start with banning certain words and speech and absolutely refuse to allow any negative connotations against any policy person or problem such as the fact there is no bread I remember Russian bread lines Should you have criticized you would have been arrested beaten and questioned if the answers were not what they wanted to hear you were beaten again and at some point sent to Siberia to die for just speaking about a reality a problem that needed attention,

Back when the Stazi ran East Germany having blue jeans could get you put in prison especially American music and communicating with anyone from a free democratic country.
Strike fear in the hearts of the people to speak against a topic and from there that country becomes a gulag against freedom of speech thought and personal freedom. How would you like to go to prison for having a can of meat owning a Bible one round of ammunition or an opinion it's happened ask anyone who lived in eastern Europe.

When you take politics and religion out of a conversation your left with all the things that only entertain us to remove our minds from the encircling python strangling our freedoms. It has gotten where we are only allowed to talk sports technology, where hunting and fishing are considered blood sports and if your not vegan your a horrible horrible person. This has even been taken to outer limits where animal rights activists are trying to shut down farming IE chicken rabbits other commercial meat / food production and hunting of any sort. it is a lack of transparency and conversation that allows a malignancy to grow into a cancer or ignoring a lump under your skin to become a baseball on your neck and because your afraid to look at it, or accept it is becoming a serious problem your doctor is going to be telling you your going to be dead and real soon.

I remember the phrase baby killer these words came from then students to now professors who have never been brought to task about their vile hatred for their own, Who have become a large dangerous 5th column they inhabit the deep state politics and even our churches. On this forum there has been conversation about the Boys and Girl scouts it took 80 years but they finally broke in and made them tow the line to their agenda of androgyny and social ideals Hitler youth leaders did the same thing. the schools have beaten down any teacher that refuses to teach topics commanded of them ( no freedom unless it's a leftist agenda) this has been going on since the 50's and the cancer has spread to all schools from just the big 5 of New York, Las Angles, Washington, Chicago and San Francisco. WE watched as city after city news papers circled the drain to the left. Now here we are I an see the end of the road from where I am because I know where I come from I know who I am and what it took to get to the best place on earth to increased X10 of prisons illegal aliens welfare and now we are devolving into Venezuelan violence mob rule and riots on campuses and in the streets because of feelings not actual or real events our President is a Nazi ? the Church is responsible for all the societies ills ? and every fact you ever thought you knew is in question. if you don't believe me just look up anything in Wikiapedia or any other online source. The most absurd has more factoids than historical events because if you change history you change beliefs and that slices both ways.

I see more people coming to places like this and eventually younger ones that thirst for real content and ideas more people are buying firearms learning self reliance I don't know if the tide is turning it seems so since I don't have the resources to travel 200 days of the year to events to turn this around I try to effect a difference here as most of you and it is the good fight to attempt to expose the truth learn a little teach a little and expand our understanding --- just an opinion.

 

I listen to both ends of the radio dial, with NPR on one end and local Christian/conservative talk radio on the other. I'm encouraged by little things like NPR "unprecedented $100K shortfall in revenue this quarter." We just had a State and local primary election with lots of candidates, but only one party on the ballot. Remember the support that chic-fil-a got a couple years ago? It was standing room only around here. Daily I hear accusations and conclusions on one side and the next day there's a complete reversal, but always with a new negative spin. This is nothing new. Political cartoons from 100 years ago cover the same big issues we are still hearing about today. Power, taxes, and freedom.

In meatspace, I've met more and more people of all ages in the past year who've fled blue states to move here. These are all voters and tax payers, voting with their feet. Not like the mass migration of workers out of Detroit in the early 1970's, but there seems to be an up-tick lately. I've talked to teens who are more active in church activities, sports, and talking to girls than they are texting, gaming and blogging. Where I live, and who I choose to associate with certainly has a lot to do with my happiness. The vast majority of the folks I live and work with every day are armed, hard working and responsible. Some choose different paths than I, but all are tolerant of others... to a point.

Screeching and senselessly violent protests in remote cities, by people who have voted themselves poor and defenseless are on the news constantly. They are isolated, demanding unconstitutional and unethical changes and they are only getting louder as their minority is shrinking. This is nothing new. What's new is the 24/7 coverage on more devices/streams/channels than we've ever had before, coupled with a new acceptance of "news" being distorted to suit an agenda. I don't see it live here, since grown "men" in masks, behaving badly would make the paper here, but only in the obituaries. I also don't see guns doing anything violent on their own, any sort of "privilege" based on anything but respect for my age and disabilities, no boogie-men in the public restroom, and nobody demanding I give up anything...or else. I listen to both sides, maintain my beliefs, and enjoy my life.

Life is good.

 

Everything he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ except it is billions in Foreign Aid every year, normally ~$50-$70 billion. That is a lot of our money that is ill spent with little in return. But, what the hell, the taxpayers get very little of value for their tax dollar anyway. Oh! We get a huge and wonderful military but is it truly for us or is it to benefit the Defense Industry and to ensure market share overseas and/or the oil industry, to name a few?

It has taken only 3 years since I have been back from overseas for me to see that all truly is lost. When I first came on the forum a few years ago, I truly thought we could change things in this country by vote but...no. I mean that. I no longer have that fantasy. I had hope when Trump was elected but we all have seen that even though we beat the odds and put into office an outsider, his hands are tied and I will bet that when he leaves office very, very little will have been accomplished. However, what has been proven during his presidency, without a doubt, is the Shadow Government does exist and for that alone perhaps this exercise in futility was worth it. But, nothing changes in this country if it truly behooves the taxpayer...nothing...we're given patriot propaganda, an abundance of lawmaking agencies (800-1000), strict ruinous laws that drive us into submission, and a few crumbs to keep us from revolting. And, strangely...we pay for all of it. We pay for all this ill treatment.
I am with @Thunder5Ranch "...call it a crap stew and let it go down the drain."

I do believe, if ever the spark does finally ignite rebellion in this country, the consuming fire will make all previous revolutions in mankind's history appear small, even our own, and it will be known as the bloodiest insurrection in history.

 

I' in complete agreement with both Bandit99 and Thunder5! Tough times ahead, th ings have been circling the drain for some time now, and were finally seeing the center of the bowl. When I retired from the A.F. I was blissfully unaware of the real world, I was a part of the great conspiracy, but one as also an outsider to it. I had structure and a very closely run life style. Every one was on the same page on every topic you could think of. When I finally retired, I had many doses of koolaid which kept my vision of the true world narrowed and blurry. All that changed when I was trying to find work as a civilian, no one wanted to hire me, and no one wanted some one like me around, even in dark whearhouses and back corner offices where no one wojld ever see me, they all said no. So I started my own business fighting forest fires, and that's when the darkness of the real world opend before my eyes, I had the big red pill shoved down my throat and swapped hard. I was having to deal with every concevable person and agency in charge or in a position of power enough to have a little say in things, I can tell you, it was astonishing at who corrupt things were, and as I begin to see deeper down that hole, the more I despised every thing! This country is well and truly lose, there is no saving it, and even a Revolution will probably only creat new problems with out ever addressing the fundamental flaws we have been made to suffer!
As to the person so used to in the OP, I say, what ever, don't like it, don' read it, but don't censor it ether, there are many views if the world out side our own, and while we may not like whay we see and hear, it' good to be aware of tbose views! The whole "Keep your friends close, your enemies closer" kind of deal! And don' ever fool your self, the rest of the world dosnt have a very to say view of our country ether, in many places, there is a great animosity toward America, and while some places tolerate us as nessessory evils, other places have found they can get along just fine with out us!
So, take that view when looking toward other points if view from folks not in our country, and ask your selves the WHY! Why does the rest if the world hate on us, why do they hate or fear our POTUS? Why do they diss gree with our politics and our way of doing things? Why do they hate our politics? Ask your selves WHY!

 

I am finding more and more in a conversation or debate that attacking the idea or even not agreeing with the idea is considered a personal attack. Not so bad here. LOL I was recently perma banned from another forum where I disagreed with one poster and he responded back with "You should take up a hobby like eating prozak and anti psychotics" My position was that the Constitution should be interpeted and applied exactly as written. His position was it needed to be tossed out completely and rewritten more liberally for modern times. Anyway my response to the prozak was " You must be a product of the public school system and graduated with the average 4th grade reading and comprehension level, please go back and read what I wrote again as I wrote it! Not as you want to comprehend it." That earned me a perma ban on that forum "You have violated our ROC with offensive personal attacks. As a result you have been banned from our forums." The other guy lol was made a Mod on that forum shortly after. I had been a member of that forum for 20 years, I have heard pretty much all of us that had been there for 10-20 years were purged via the ban hammer over the course of a month. It was a largely right of center, libertarian thinking group of folks until a year ago and the leadership/ownership and mods were changed to "A more modern and liberal thinking team" The first thing they did was remove those of us who had been mods and replace us with left of center mods that heavily censored anything that was not left of center. Their forum and their bandwidth so they can do as they please. And I was not too far from banning myself that forum anyway so no hard feelings.

Where I am going with this is SM in comparison to most forums is very light on the mod and censorship and from what I have seen since finding SM and joining SM is that there is room for debate, digs and even some modest trolling and is open to all ideas and opinions with in reason. As far as mods, it is a suck job and trying to do it impartially without your own beliefs playing into it is next to impossible and someone is always going to accuse you of censoring or not being fair in the moderation. I can say from first hand experience it has gotten a lot harder to be a forum mod on any forum over the last 10 years. Mainly because people in general have become more polarized and their ideals and ideas are who they are, so by attacking the idea has became one and the same as attacking the individual in many folks eyes,leaving little to no room for debate or open discourse on most subjects. The Monkey has just about the best balance in letting discussions (Even heated ones) run their course. And the Monkeys themselves are far more tolerant and open to discussing and debating opposing views than folks on most other forums. I hope that does not change as I am finding myself settling in here

 

Two last points and then I am off my soapbox...

First, I missed this, "The Treasury is set to borrow nearly $1 trillion this year, and at least that much afterwards", actually, it's for the next 2 years, $955 Billion this year, a $Trillion for each, 2019 and 2020. Still think your grandchildren will have a country when they reach adulthood?

Second, we had to make a hard decision recently and, quite honestly, this forum assisted us, more specifically people like @Thunder5Ranch , @Ura-Ki , @ochit , @OldDude49 and all the others that raise their voices here, their opinions. This forum has provided me a link into the nation that shows me there is indeed many like-minded individuals still left in the country that can well see how the emperor is truly dressed. And, while I believe the country itself is lost that does not mean its people are lost with it and, even if so, they will "...not go gentle into that good night."

We had to come to a final decision of staying or leaving the country for at some point one is too impeded to depart and that time is near. Unlike most here, I have no reason to stay in the USA and we could easily returned to Central Asia. We have no family here, no debts or mortgages, no commitments whatsoever and we indeed have the finances to leave if we so desired. I am as comfortable overseas as I am here, in truth, more so. My wife is constantly dazed and confused as she continues to discover that much here doesn't pass the logic test, for example, being forced to purchase medical insurance or frivolous law suits. She is still struggling with the Portland, Oregon bakers that were sued into bankruptcy for simply refusing to bake a cake for a Lesbian couple because it went against their religious belief even though the 1st Amendment was said to protect those beliefs. Try explaining that one to a person that is just learning the Constitution! Anyway... Against her family's hopes and wishes, we are staying and the only valid reasons I can give is because we both love the country and its people - like all of you. While, I love the country and its people, I despise the government more and more each day as I see them as a cancerous evil eating away the nation for their own ends. Right or wrong that is how I see it and I cannot state it any plainer... To ensure there is no future legal hassles with our estate, my wife became a U.S. citizen on 21 May. So, for better or worse, we are staying. Thank you all for helping us with that difficult decision. Thank you.

 

Oh and the claim was made that I did not defend my post...

thing is the post was a defense against the claim of a living breathing Constitution...

which IMHO is little more then progressive double speak...

the intent behind such is to change the clear meaning of what is written and turn it into whatever they need it to be at the time...

thing is the people that wrote it left behind written documents that clearly state what their intentions were when they wrote it...

 

The sad irony, in all the Government, there are only about 1100 people in Gov employ who are the problem, senators, congressmen, and governers are the real trouble makers! Add to that a small number of military leader's, a few agency leaders, and a few DOJ, justices. They are the reasons we are so screwed up, and those who came before them in those capacities! Thats really it, you can fit all of them in a large school gym, and they are the leading problem in this nation!
Unfortunatey for the wife and I, were vested in land and finances state side, otherwise we would have left a few years ago. None the less, we have made serious arrangements for an alternative should we decide to leave the States!

 

thinkin bout what ya say here... seems like the way it often works is they get into a position that allows em to do these things...

then they do these things... there does not have to be a lot of em... they just need to be in certain places doing certain things...

get into positions of control... then control... and freedom slowly... dies...?

 

My position was that the Constitution should be interpeted and applied exactly as written. His position was it needed to be tossed out completely and rewritten more liberally for modern times. Anyway my response to the prozak was

That earned me a perma ban on that forum

LMAO and that got you banned -- same here I only contested a false statement and proved it there in was my mistake proving my point..