Could you thrive/survive in the 1850's?

The hardest part about it, to me, is easily medicine and food. The rest of it is give or take to me. I've got skills, and if I wasn't forced to make a modern living, I would have more/more finely tuned ones. Honestly, sounds like more fun to me.

 

IMO it's about surviving the initial portion of unrest and the mass die off that results once resources are consumed. If you can make it that first year you have a chance to band with others for pre electricity/modern medicine/etc. survival.

After you have your year or more preps, you need the tools,information, seeds, etc. to survive. Beyond that it's highly desirable to have a cache of knowledge to help regain important technologies. Load up a few tablets and some solar supplies and jam them in an old microwave along with some comms and rechargeable batteries.

The area Mrs 3M and I have chosen for relocation are very conducive to that initial survival and later rebuilding even down to gravity fed water supply. The only thing it can't handle would be a military action, but almost nowhere can. The property will be near town but we will have a well defended off grid bugout in the hills for contingencies and recreation. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

 

I strongly concur with this take on things. As mentioned previously, a SHTF scenario would cause society to take a hit during the initial incident and then for a period of time after. Basically what would be happening is life finding the new balance between how much food can be grown and delivered and the number of people available to do so. As you state, today's infrastructure, if mostly deactivated, would be unable to support the current levels of population. The numbers would drop as a result.

The ability for society to respond will depend on many factors but respond it would. One of the first factors I believe that would cause an issue is the time of year that the original incident occurred. If an incident happened early in the year, say March, that would give a couple of months for an initial life adjustment/assessment to happen. But then the first summer would probably see many people start to grow crops. If the initial incident happened at the end of the majority of North America's traditional growing season I foresee a far higher initial die-off. This is where preparedness stores would be most helpful...especially food, water and a heat source.

My thoughts are that a local incident would not cause a major societal disruption. The rest of the country would be able to support the area in need. My comments are specifically related to a national event but most likely a global event. I think that North America has enough allies that a national event would still be relatively recoverable. Even in a global event I find it unlikely that ALL technology EVERYWHERE would be disabled for the long term.

The more skills you have the more assistance you could be able to provide...limited of course by the amount of time in a day!

 

A couple of Hurricanes hitting the gulf coast and east coast with the associated flooding of the Mississippi & Ohio valley, add Yellowstone Erupting which could destabilize the New Madrid fault, yup, North America would be a mess for quite some time.
But it only takes one event within your local area to leave you without electricity, fuel for generators, and a complete collapse of the areas infrastructure. Down here in Florida we get annual reminders of how frail mans inventions are when Mother Nature Hurls Her worst at you.

 

Ditto. I have made a point to try and practice pre-electic/gas techniques. Been stocking up non-powered tools, charcoal, etc.
I like my gadgets, but can give them up, if necessary.

 

I have made a number of comments about my belief in the resiliency of society as a whole to respond as a group. One of the "on the other hand" aspects that gives pause to my belief is the concept that a societal re-boot has never happened before in history. Technological progress has pretty much always been like time's arrow...flowing in one direction. The biggest concern I have in my belief is that society has never had to 'start over'. A global CME or other large event that causes society to be pushed back to the 1850s may be too much for society to bear.

That said, knowledge is recorded and a start over (ie. from scratch) wouldn't be needed. It would be more of a re-do, as was mentioned early in the thread. I think this would be the saving grace of society.

 

It all may sound grand to be using manual labor to accomplish simple tasks, but as you age it ain't so grand.
I have an abundance of tools older than I , still functional, however cutting things like ply wood with a hand saw in stead of a skill saw, gets really old. Cutting steel with a plasma torch is so efficient in many ways , laser even better, but the 1800 method is wit a forge and anvil and chisel and single jack and muscle sweat and some times blood. they didn't use safety glasses, I find them indispensable . I worked a lot of years with out them and can attest to the hazard go working with out them ,and at the same time reference to those times the safety glasses seriously saved my sight .
If a storm had blown out your window , how much time do you want to spend securing it ?
One of the reasons we live longer than our ancestors is our creativity, building things to improve the quality of life.
And by the way your gun was not built with hand tools.
Older 1800s guns were sloppy at best and the metals left a lot to be desired . there was still a lot of hand fitting that had to be done just to make a gun functional.

I know black smithing ,and am also a welder ,I have yet though to take raw iron and smelt it into a bloom and forge from there.
but it is on my bucket list.
I have lived with having to improvise to get the jobs done , had to use the wrong saw for the material, the secondary tools to answer a critical need because no other options were available.
A crescent wrench is handy only if it's the right size range, but it doesn't fit every thing.
Before SAE machine and metallurgy standards were very poor, not to mention other health and food standards nor foundation for quality had been established .
A lot of carpet baggers and scam artists, and snake oil salesmen floated from town to town . Even in the 1950s they were still around .
To be quite realistic being cast back to the 1800s is a fantasy, and not a good one at that.
Should we lose electrical power, the means to rebuild the technology, remains . unless people have done nothing to learn it .

 

In some cases yes, in many others no.
At the risk of being the cranky old man here I have zero faith in the current batch of carbon based clone units. Without Google and smart apps they are right truly f#@%ed. Grab the average high school or college kid and give them a brace n bit or even a tape measure and see what happens. My generation for the most part is the last one that didn't see shame in making a living with their hands. Nowadays these little twits think they should make 100k for pulling up shit off a network in their safe space. God forbid they have a flat on their prius because most can't change a damn tire, or think it's below them to do so.

 

Having lived through the age range you are speaking of, I would like to point out that it your generation PUSHED us to "Greater Things" and never taught us/them how to do any of those skills. My generations failings did not just develop overnight with a college application, and I get SICK of hearing it phrased like that!

 

Just curious arleigh...as a welder and as part of your preparedness, do you store welding rod, acetylene, oxygen, etc.?

 

Not @arleigh but yes I do along with welding wire, grinding and sanding discs and all the other consumables required for my trade. I also now have a acetylene generator to produce my own acetylene.

 

Not in my family's case bub.
My father taught me a great deal about ranch life and everything that goes with it.
But he really didn't know much about mechanics or welding.
I learned that on my own. Starting in Ag class in high school and getting a job in a garage. The field interested me and here I am after 35 years in the trades.

I never pushed my children to "Greater Things".
I did my best to teach my son how a Man should conduct himself.
I did my best to teach my Daughters how a Lady should conduct herself.
My son shared my love of all things mechanical and decided to go for and got a engineering degree and had just started a job in his chosen field when he was killed in an automobile accident.
My oldest daughter is married with two children and works in a marijuana dispensary.
My middle daughter is expecting their first child and works for her FiL's construction company.
My youngest doesn't know what the hell she wants to do yet but is leaning towards working with animals.

They can balance a checkbook, run a household, fire and maintain 90% of the firearms found in the civilian US, change their own oil and fix their own damn flat tire.
I taught ALL of them that life ain't fair but it can be fun too. They all know how to take care of themselves both in the city and in the woods.

So you see I did my part, and I get SICK of whinyassed little bitches crying because life ain't what they thought it was supposed to be and are too limpdicked to get out from behind the computer and do something to change their plight.
You, like my children may be one of the few of your generation that can stand on their own two feet-great. If so, why does it bother you so much what many older folks say about "your" generation?

 

One, I keep getting lumped in there and snarled at. And...well, sitting here looking at it holding my youngest, I have a lot of answers to that questions...a lot of them revolving around being worried, and sick of hearing bitching coming from both sides, especially with nobody trying to meet in the middle. And certainly worried and trying to learn and not make the same mistakes myself, because I am who I am, not who I was raised to be...I'm a complete failure in that regard, because I was raised to be a computer-whiss carbon clone just like everyone else.

I commend you on pulling it off yourself, but it i real hard to pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you don't have anything to work off of or have any direction on how/where to go. Got a whole thread started on the subject since you got me thinking on it again.
My Generation versus Yours: Questions for Us | Survival Monkey Forums

 

I don't see it as a generational issue, though I do think my generation dropped the ball when it came to keeping an eye on our schools and letting things like shop classes go by the wayside.

I do see it as more of a human nature thing. We tend to take the easy route, which is a survival skill that doesn't translate well after transitioning from a "we don't have enough resources" culture to a "time of plenty" culture unless it stays that way. What is the incentive to do things the hard way when I can get along easily with half the effort?

I grew up poor with good parents who survived the depression, so some skills were transferred just by being there and helping. My Dad was a type of millwright and had all sorts of tools he gathered over the years and so when we needed something we built it and only bought what wasn't practical to do so. Good times do not force people to learn self sufficiency.

What I see is that the further we become distanced from the basics the more vulnerable we are to a disruption that leaves us with no understanding of how to recreate things later. Disruptions WILL come that WILL knock us backwards. Good on you for reaching back to those basics to keep skills alive. Most born since the computer revolution don't feel they have a need to do so and why would they having had the blue pill forced on them by government and culture.

 

Reminds me of when I was trying to get my forge working the first time. I got laughed out of every store I went into because "We got the Walmart" and do not need forges to make knives anymore. Laughed out...only took me 10 years to cobble enough stuff together to try.

Sounds like witchcraft, but that is cool. Never would have thought to look for something like that.

 

Types Of Acetylene Generators

These are pretty rare nowadays. I was lucky to find mine.

 

So as not to pull the trains brake cord, I've got multiple generations rolling round the house. GI Generation, Baby boomers,Millennials, Generation Z, and now even Millennial & Gen Z offspring. So perhaps it's the course of study that determines how effectively skills are passed between generations?
I remember the summer I was digging ditches for the foundations of Mom& Dads house. Every day when Dad came home from work to inspect my manual labor, he directed me to make sure I got enough education that I wouldn't need to spend the next 60 years of my life digging ditches. Yup, OJT and hard hitting inspiration all in the same package! Oh, and the money that was saved from my free serf like labor went into the College fund. When Uncle Sam picked up most of the TAB, my labor went into my younger Sisters College fund.
So yes those Millennials & Gen Z's that married my daughters are computer geeks, but they all have spent time beside me digging ditches (and have OJT government survival training that I've taught) and many other forms of manual labor. Not to mention that thier children are getting the same hands on school of hard knocks training that was administered (passed along) to me. Yes they have access to the Silver Spoon, but only after they have Strong Backs and calloused hands. So they can Thank the folks that breed the GI Generation for their daily torture, but why mess with a proven method of success?
So if the technology of the 1850's isn't a part of your every day life, perhaps it was your attention to detail that was lacking? It's easy to discredit the lessons of others, as alibi's of others failures. JMHO.

(WOW, way to philosophical for a Red Necked Florida Cracker) PS Belay my last if not in keeping with the PC rules of today!

 

I've seen a lot of old farming techniques and even spent a couple dozen hours working a forge using coal and charcoal. However, I'm far from an expert at any of them. If dropped into a depopulated and asset free area, my family would dream of living like the 1850s. We'd be much more like successful Iron Age villagers.

It is my belief that a man alone would probably work himself to death trying to master everything he would need to know to the point of self sufficiency post SHFT collapse.

As noted, even in the 1850s there was community, skilled trades, and infrastructure. If time travelled, I'd probably just get a job as a millwright for the railroad or boilerman for the textile plants that were nearby.

I'm leaning farther and farther toward the idea of a secure post SHTF trading post. Folks bring me labor or goods and I trade it for what they need. This way the experts in the skill sets I don't have enough time to do, tooling, or proficiency in come to me.

My herbal medicine skills aren't terrible. However, finding/recruiting a Curandera is pretty high on my list. A Ranger or SF medic would be great asset to cultivate as well. I have relationships with those people but maybe they'd come or maybe not.

I'll also look for an honest spiritual leader to get established near the post. More people (especially motivated ones) means more division of labor.

My family ran trading posts in the Early Texas and the Monongehela river valley. I think I'd try my hand as well in a SHTF world. It's a model duplicated countless times in the development of civilization.

So, to answer the OP question, yes. I do believe I could survive both if the SHTF or if I was magically teleported back in time to the 1850s.

 

In my MAG, we have a couple farmers, a farm-raised nurse, a welder and tractor mechanic, several of us handload, most shoot and hunt, a couple of us are general "handymen". A fairly decent small group. A pretty good mix of skills. We are all older, so 8f their kids come to our post-SHTF meeting place, they and the youngsters would have the worst time adjusting. No electronic entertainment, lots more chores!

 

I think that we have a wider variety of knowledge than the average person in the 1800s, being teleported back might be both a culture shock and serious disappointment.
What you can do and what your allowed to do and the materials available may be a bit more of a challenge.
Mentioning the fact that you could talk on a telephone to any one else in the world with a phone, and walk any where you wished with no wires to limit your conversation, would certainly sound like a Jules Vern adventure world.
Unless you have the knowledge and expertise to build a phone system, even radio ,your stories would be dismissed as fiction and delusional . Or a government might haul you off to a facility like DARPA to exploit your knowledge.
To reality,
If the grid is down indefinitely,, since we have the knowledge to make these things I am sure that industries would build up and those advantages would soon get reestablished .
It might throw us back 30-40 years but the technology we know is real and medicine breakthroughs are real and the knowledge would continue , It's just a matter of the struggle to make it happen .
Question is will man have learned any thing for this experience ?
Efforts are being made to harden our infrastructure and more importantly our military against EMP so the idea that we would be lost in the 1800s so to speak, is not true. .
IMO to be viable in that time one might do well to know how to repair and make things that made life easier like having electricity to run a skill saw , refrigerator, heater, and so forth.
Asian countries have been making modern things on dirt floors for decades , we can do better.
What are you going to do about water filters if you don't know how to build the ones you now depend on?
If you don't know how they are made then you are left to the more primitive methods of the same process.
Even more critically is the fact that there are far more contaminants than any other time in history, so the technology needs improvement not ignorance.