Ideal Survival Rifle

And I KNOW I've mentioned this, but am I the only person on the planet that plans around having to take less than "perfect headshots" when I choose a caliber?

 

You ain't talking .22 caliber anything, so might I ask you to "Speak Splain"?

 

Wish I could run and shoot (accurately ) at the same time.

 

300 rounds of 5.56 and 1000 rounds of 22

 

I can run and shoot pretty well. I scored 15 of 20 hits in 68 seconds While rushing 100 yards and hitting the dirt three times.

 

Kinda my point, I don't think I am talking .22 anything. And sure, a .22LR can probably kill most anything IF you get a perfect shot, you can make that shot, outside factors don't interfere with the shot, and the gun/ammo/sights are working like they should. I just do not understand PLANNING on all of that working out properly EVERY time you NEED to pull the trigger, you know?

@Kingfish-what kinda targets? Looking to set up some to train on, your numbers are a "standard" I can play against.

 

W e all ran the same drill, It was a 9 inch pie plate . You had to shoot prone, kneeing and standing. Starting with one of those positions at 100 yards and using that position again at the end. I started out standing. The reason for the drill was to keep your breathing under control. Try to shoot fast after running 40/45 yards and hitting the dirt,, then coming up firing. Second place took 3 minutes 41 seconds and scored 16 hits. . I did it in a minute and 8 seconds and I did it twice in an hour(same time) 68 seconds. Rob banged his stop watch as he didnt believe it.
I proved right there That it wasnt luck.
That was with my old stag arms AR -15 with the burris 332 prism sight. I have the same optics on my newer ones. You got 20 rounds to start with . I started standing so I finished at 25 yards standing. Other guys just could not get focused after running. You fire 5 rounds at each stop. I missed 4 out of 5 standing at 100 yards . Made 5 out of 5 prone at 75 made made 4 out of 5 kneeling at 50 and 5 out of 5 standing at 25. I missed one at 50 because I was wavering from trying to get my breath. Still a great score for a 52 year old . And I beat every other team member who ran it. Our best guy wasnt there for the drill that day. Would have been cool to shoot that kind of drill against him.

 

W e ran a lot of movement drills, walking and firing, rush drills, moving from cover to cover. Flanking, suppression fire etc. Moving and firing accurately is really hard. Its even harder than hitting a moving target. Try running , firing and trying to hit a moving target all at once. Im not any where near that good. I have to stop to fire accurately.

 

"Unorthodox and Chaotic: How America Should Fight Wars"

History has proven that the best drilling outfits came in as second place losers to those that have a discipline of improvise, adapt, and overcome. Train to your hearts content, yet your best instruction shall come on your first day after mortal combat. Survive that, and then you can become an instructor. JMHO.

 

And, since no rifle will be good in all circumstances, the key would either be that one must look at their own situation, factors including but not limited to the "terrain" (be it city or mountains or anything in between), what type of shots one will be most likely be required to make and whether one is likely to be primarily in a defensive or offensive posture...or one must accept that there is no single "ideal survival rifle"...even for one person.

 

exactly.

 

While I understand and agree with your reply, having training in the "basics" is essential for anyone. In this case we are talking combat or CQB type training for lack of a better phrase. Being able to be flexible is one of the keys to survival in my opinion, but having training or schooling in the first place will hopefully allow a person the chance to survive their first contact and thus continue their "real world" education.
Please understand this is coming from someone who has attended several schools and many classes over the years. While I have worked in active combat zones in the past its never been as a combatant. The best thing folks like myself can do is to attend good schools/classes and train. Then hopefully when the day comes that we need to put into practice what we've learned we will have a fighting chance.
JMT's.

 

Some training is better than no training. Even gardening needs practice. W e trained the kids to fish, shoot and clean fish and game.

 

I think I would move "hopefully" to after learned. JMHO.
Combat tested, seasoned, hardened, etc..... these are all terms for units that have operated in combat conditions. Every Nation/Organization attempts to give thier troops the best training available prior to insertion in combat, yet every unit that has faced unfriendly fire withholds judgement on the "rookies" until the have proven themselves in actual combat.
There are many concepts of what the "Ideal Survival Rifle" would be, there are many less actual rifles that have been proven effective at an individual level in actual combat. If you are sure that you shall always have enough operators to attack/defend via a skirmish line, then a controllable high cyclic rate would be of value. If there might be a chance that you could find yourself alone? Researching the History of firearms utilized by "SNIPERS" may be of benefit. If you consider the primary mission of a survival rifle to be self defense against others with projectile weapons, it may be worth your while to consider rifles that have proven themselves in combat. JMHO.
And about that most likely be required to make, it's really sad when your in a situation that falls outside of your "Battle Plan". If your inadequately armed by your own design, well that's how casualties happen.

 

If your inadequately armed by your own design, well that's how casualties happen.

On this we agree completely. I also agree that actual combat is second to none in training. And even then many men and women have died in battle after multiple years of deployment.

 

There are no guarantees. Just like the stock market, past performance isn't indicative of future success. But I feel that by considering Battle Proven Firearms your odds of having an "Ideal Survival Rifle" in your hands when it's needed most improve exponentially. JMHO.

 

Well, I have always considered the second most important (or maybe third) "skill" required to survive a firefight to be luck...and it's hard to train.

 

Perhaps "The Rattle Battle" concept needs to be reintroduced. If your current rifle can't outperform either the Krag Rifle or the M1903? Perhaps it isn't an Ideal Survival rifle?
http://www.bobrohrer.com/sea_stories/service_rifle_qualification_courses.pdf

 

I used to own a Krag. Killed many deer with it. 30-40 . caliber doesnt make the Ideal Survival rifle if there even is such a thing. Ill never settle for having to only use one. Any Ar-15 in good condition would out perform a Krag in most situations. An AR-10 in every situation . Any bigger rifle is going to lose in weight of ammo , how many rounds you can carry, Magazine size etc. bigger calibers like the .338 can reach out much farther than the little 5.56 and hit much harder. I have a better .30 caliber in my Thompson center Icon. By when my eyesight went south I was forced to use optics . The Krag could not be scoped without special mounts. But it was a formidable rifle like the Mosin. I certainly would not want to get shot with one.

 

Kingfish, would you agree that an experienced dangerous game hunter,makes a better soldier ,more likely to survive?