If God is Good, Why is there Suffering?

This echos my sentiments almost exactly! I believe in spirituality out side any structure, or teachings of man, and I believe that each of us has their own understanding of "religion" or God! In my own life struggles, I have come to the realization that I do not "Need" church, I do not need the feeble translations of learned men or their take on what was written! What I have come to believe is that I am my own temple to the word of God and Jesus Christ, and that I alone must make choices and I alone must face consequences for those choices! I learned a very long time ago, mine is not to question my God, I am but a feeble man, and it is not for me to know those answers! I have shook the very pillars of heaven, demanded God answer for what I believed to be unjust, I have shaken my bloody clenched fists and screamed curses to him, in his name, for things I believed were wrong, and in my sorrow and pain, I came to understand that it was mans failing, Not God's that led to those instances in my life! I am my Own Temple, and My life is my own to live ether in his glory, or in eternal sin!

 

Religion is based on faith. Those who don't have it argue about everything in life and why it is happening. Those of us that do have it don't get all involved in all the arguments. We could not know good from evil or even attempt to lead the good life if bad doesn't also exist. I view the book of Job as a teaching device. Enjoy life, do the best you can, enjoy all the things God has provided us, and realize it is just a passing state. We are all caterpillars crawling around on this world and I for one hope to become at least a Monarch butterfly in the next stage of things.

 

Does Chimp Warfare Explain Our Sense of Good and Evil?
To me it's very simple.

 

Oh man....you're goin' ta burn in hell for offering a naturalistic explanation for suffering that makes "god" in the "problem of suffering / evil" argument, redundant. Do chimps have analogues to god, Adam and Eve?? in their moral systems??

 

You know, I've heard the exact same response from so many people. I've asked these people if they have at least 3 days supply of food incase of SHFT but they have all given me the same answer: "if WW3 starts, I'm just going to kill myself" or "it could never happen, let's just enjoy life" or the ever popular "I'm too busy to worry about that crap". The part that worries me is that if and when SHFT comes, these people will be the most dangerous. These will be the people in crisis who will experience the greatest shock and the instinct to survive will kick in when they get hungry enough. Starvation is an extremely painful way to die and I'm sure that most of those people who fail to prepare adequately will not follow through with their proposed plan of suicide. Instead they will be desperate and scared. People like us will have to find a way to hunker down and place obstacles between us and the people we can't help. It sounds cold and heartless but as a matter of survival, it's necessary.

Now from a religious perspective we see another issue. I have a friend who is a devoted Christian and he believes that when SHFT happens, him and his family will be "raptured". So this is another excuse not to prepare for a crisis, even of it is indeed imminent and staring them in the face. I asked my friend what his plans were if he did not get raptured but he kept insisting that he would instead of face the possibility that he might not.

I realized that my friend and his family would be doomed if anything like this ever did happen... and I realized that there would be nothing that I could do to help him. I have done plenty of prepping and there is still really only one major item I need but I could bug out successfully at any time... but I couldn't sustain many more people than myself.

If SHFT, every single one of us will face some hard choices. Our morality will need to be altered slightly to accommodate survival. Our judgment must be quick and concise with an element of forethought for the consequences that may befall us if the wrong choice is made. Soon, I'm afraid, the distinguishing characteristic between people will be who has prepared and who has not.

I believe in the saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger", it has been my motto since middle school. I have intentionally taken the tougher road just for the sake of conditioning myself for things and it has made all the difference. I don't get discouraged when I fail because I take it as an opportunity to learn what not to do when I try again. I take no chances with my survival however. I will not take the present for granted with a naive assumption that everything will always remain the same. I try to keep my body healthy and my survival fluid and flexible for whatever situation comes next. It's my hope that when SHFT happens, I will be ready.

 

I've always seen good and evil more as perceived emotional reactions to worldly events. The idea of something to be "good" or "evil" is purely opinion based to exist in the human mind but has no solid existence in reality. Only a perceived reality through religion can make these concepts hold ground.

What acts can be considered good and what acts can be considered evil? Well it would depend on if a person were referring to acts of nature, creatures or people.

Nature can cause destruction or crippling droughts which can be seen as "evil". Nature can also provide cool, gentle weather with ample rain providing a healthy harvest; this can be seen as "good". Both are purely based on opinions according to perspective.

Creatures like wolves or foxes can kill livestock or maul/kill people, which can be seen as "evil". Then creatures like dogs can protect livestock and can have a relationship built with them; so "good". Again, purely based on perspective.

Now it gets a little more tricky with people because there is a matter of "will" involved and "will" can reflect the "morality" within a person. You can have people with an intentionally "good or evil will" for something and many people choose to judge a person based on how their projected "will" relates to their moral standing. Still though, it is not a fact of nature that a person is "good" or "evil" according to their "will", "good" and "evil" are still just a matter of opinion from the perspective of a perciever. Example: a terrorist who threatens to blow up a hospital gets shot: perceived as "good". The terrorist actually blows up the hospital: perceived as "evil". Now switch the perspective and see from the terrorists perspective and you might be able to see how those opinions can be reversed.

The element of religion I have been discussing seems to be one of the most dangerous qualities about it. The perception of "good" and "evil" can vary person to person based on their "will" and how it is reflected by "morality" and how that "morality" is influenced directly by religion.

It seems the only rational option is to ignore religion when a moral conflict occurs between the will and the moral reflection of religion. But if that morality obscures the real world because it is the only version of reality a person has ever known, the will becomes intertwined with their moral reflection of religion and gives them the idea that their will is "good" when it is "evil" to others.

That about sums up one aspect of religion that I have never liked. Religion is always ready to direct your will for the sake of its bidding based on the pull of dogma. This applies to all religions which is why I take an atheistic approach to all of them.

 

You are correct that life is a puzzle and I am one that like to "puzzle" on things. I tend to think thing as they are presented and will always circle back, take what I havelearned and apply the new. There does not seem to be answer but it is helpful to read thers thoughts on it.

I have trouble figuring it also. Friday I spent the day with someone who is suffering from the loss of a child. I actually asked her this question. She could not answer, no one can but her faith was strong, she kept saying I am giving it up to God.

 

I suspect that is how the thread is headed.....soft balls for god to bunt, Christian apologetics, and sundry bible readings.

 

"There are no atheists in foxholes."

That's a quote that has stood out to me for a while and I've taken some time to ponder on what it implies. I think your friend losing her child is more or less the same kind of situation. I'm very sorry for your friends loss and I hope she can hold onto whatever she can to remain strong.

Normally I would just leave my condolences and sympathy as the final lick of the conversation but since it relates to the topic, I hope you don't mind if I elaborate. The need to believe in something in a person's most hopeless hour seems to be necessary some times. Either for emotional support or to give a person courage with an idea that fate is on their side. Being a person of my perspective, I find it to be a very interesting phenomenon. Having the ability to call upon a well of strength through faith is a very beautiful thing I think and I can recognise it as an aid to survival. It's almost like finding a way to replenish one's will when their own is already spent. I can clearly see how this kind of experience can strengthen a person's faith because they are proving something to themselves. It seems to be achieved through faith. It holds them together and helps them face the world with a brave face because they have a sense of knowing that God is with them.

It really is beautiful to me and I would never want to take something like that away from a person who is searching to strengthen their will. I'm content with letting them believe despite my own beliefs.

But I can also recognise another side of this that is equally as beautiful. A side that is often overlooked when glorifying God. If this is purely a deeper strength of mind and body that people just don't realize they already have (proving confidence within themselves; having faith in their own abilities and possessing a will to earn their own way) they possess an ability of determination and self sovereignty.

I suppose the idea that you don't have to do things alone is comforting to many people. I know first hand that when your life gets shattered, it's not as much fun to pick up the pieces alone. But maybe that's what it takes to earn a deeper self discipline in order to master ones self. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?

 

Amen.

 

Lost two in utero but they were far enough along that they had to be delivered stillborn. One obviously male, the other obviously female. I don't talk about it much but they are our kids that we never got to raise. Like I mentioned, they both have names (not going into it here or giving it out) and almost 17 years later they still hurt. Not like they did, and I'm sure not the same as losing one now but it's there and it always will be.

 

A man taken before his master was forgiven a great debt he was unable to repay his life and family were on the block but his master at the mans begging was granted forgiveness of the debt.
Later on that same man found another that owed him a very small debt , but would not forgive, and had him put in prison.
Word came back to the master of the first man of this , and rescinded the forgiveness once given. his debt reinstated.
Jesus gave this lesson to demonstrate .
Great debts of sin can be forgiven ,"when asked."
NOT forgiving others, "when they ask" dissolves the forgiveness once given.
Often people get privilege and believe them selves to be above the law of the Father,,
God holds them to a greater examination .
People in ministry can fall into traps of self superiority that will not end well , unless they repent .
People that suppose them selves to be their own source of information will also be held accountable for rebellion ,not having yielded to the Lordship of Christ. Not my word, but Jesus. John 3; 16,17,18.
Sin is self govern.
Righteousness from God's POV is obedience to His instruction VIA the Holy Spirit Jesus provided.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness . Jesus.

All men in this life must be tested .
Men whom choose to be with out God in this life, spend eternity with out God in the next.
Troubles tend to make people seek answers.
The question is, what answers are satisfaction of the truth.
It made clear to me that God is the best source of truth ,His answers satisfy my need to know.
Life's picture is vast, a tapestry woven as we go . each having a potential , usually greater then we can imagine .
Try as we may to operate things our selves , in the light of eternity have little effect.
Under God's tutelage , life has a whole new meaning , and this frail tent we live in at the moment is our opportunity to prove what we are worth to our Creator ON AN ETERNAL LEVEL.
The Bible has stories of men that loved God more then them selves, and oft times God showed His endorsement by preserving them for the moment to prove His interest.
Many here and now enjoy this endorsement of God and will too pass away some day .
Passing away is not a bad thing , unless that person has chosen to ignore God, and despise His gift .
Jesus.

 

I don't believe that God sends us any suffering intentionally. Our life is purely governed by the choices that we make. Only very few of us are lucky enough to live the kind of life that we always wanted. Whatever hard situation you find yourself in always try to make the best of it. Hope is a good thing. To quote from Forest Gump " Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get".

 

Picture a being that see and lives in time in a manner we can not understand.

A being that exist in the past present and future all at the same time.

This being can look at your entire life... which is but a pixel or speck in a vast thing we call time and knows every choice you made.

This being has a view we can not begin to understand and has a plan in place we can not hope to reason out...

Yet this being cares for each of us...

Think it was Benjamin Franklin that said it... the longer he lived the more he believed there was a God and that God was involved with this world and our lives... and was affecting things to create or come to a certain outcome...

I could go on but not real sure how best to explain the rest... need to think on it for awhile I guess...

 

Ahh think this might help some? We might be at... say point A... but we are needed at point B...

thing is we are reasonably comfortable at point A... and we don't want to move... so...

well found this and thought I'd share... might shed some light on the question asked...

got this through and email from here...

Holy Land Moments


"Most people think that the Exodus story begins when the 12 tribes of Israel made their way to Egypt in order to escape the famine in their land. But the Passover Haggadah, the text used at the Passover meal, tells us that the story begins now, in this week’s Torah reading.

The Haggadah’s account of the Exodus begins this way: “Go forth and learn what Laban the Aramean wanted to do to our father Jacob . . . Laban wanted to uproot everything.” Jewish tradition teaches that Laban was bent on destroying Jacob in a spiritual sense. By keeping Jacob in his home, Laban hoped to erase everything that Jacob had absorbed from Isaac and Abraham. And while he didn’t succeed at that, Laban did manage to manipulate Jacob for over 20 years. Part of Laban’s deception resulted in Jacob marrying Leah instead of his beloved Rachel.

Think about it: Because of Laban’s scheme, Jacob married Leah and together they had children. Those children ended up selling Rachel’s son, Joseph, to merchants who took him to Egypt. Because Joseph was in Egypt, the other brothers settled there when a famine spread through the land of Israel. And the rest, as they say, is history.

From this perspective, we can understand why according to the Haggadah, the slavery in Egypt begins with Laban. He set the wheels in motion that eventually landed the Israelites in Pharaoh’s unkind hands.

Laban is a strange name for someone responsible for so much darkness. In Hebrew, laban means white! And yet, Laban—the person – is one shady character! What’s he doing with a name that makes us think of purity and light?

The Jewish sages explain that for Jacob, the darkness of Laban was also his light. In fact, for Jacob, everything that was dark was also white. Because Jacob understood that everything that happens is from God. The good and the bad – it’s all to bring more light into the world. Yes, Laban’s darkness brought about the Egyptian slavery, but it also led to the light of Israel’s redemption and the receiving of the Torah. Darkness was turned into white. And that’s how Jacob saw it all along.

What do you see when you encounter a difficult person or situation? Do things seem bleak? Does that person seem dark and dreary? Try to shift your perspective and find the light. How can you grow from this situation? What valuable life lessons are being taught? How can this experience propel you forward and lift you higher in your life? Change your perspective, and your whole world will transform, too.

With prayers for shalom, peace,
"

 

Nigerian church collapses, 160 dead, says hospital director
Hmm. *scratches my head*

 

Bad stuff also seems to happen in moral locations, where building codes are enforced, building inspectors are not corrupt, shoddy work is prosecuted, and relevant building permits are are applied for and held.....

Lightning strikes burning down places of worship all over the world....it seems that churches that have lightning rods installed, have a better survival rate than churches without.....is god punishing churches that choose not to have moden lightning mitigation technology installed, or is it all just the consequence of a fallen world?