Evolution and is God Evil

think ya missed my point?

I do not wish any bad on this person and ya he probably just rubs me the wrong way... has nearly from the get go...

has to do... probably with MY perception... taken by me... from other post made by this person that I have read...

given that I hope no one considers my response as an attack on this person... I tend to be too honest at times...

I was being honest and informing this person of my opinion... that is all...

BUT...

I said more then once I was putting this up as FOOD for thought... a theory...

and what I got back... from my perception... was aimed more at ridicule of the food for thought offering...

I do NOT... nor did I claim this theory as fact... I offered it up for discussion...

but SEEMED like what I got back was NOT discussion but more... prove it as fact?

Further from my view...

what was offered in return was other THEORIES...

that have yet to be proven and have some rather IMHO large holes in em...

So... again just stating my opinion and responding...

and again not intended as an attack... just tellin someone where they stand from my view point...

and how and why I arrived at that... and as an opinion... I will own it... it is mine...

best wish's to all...

 

Hmmm..... OK lets pause here a moment... ya might want to clarify that last line in your statement?

I have studied evolution and found several things that strongly suggest it is NOT settled science...

like the recent discoveries of soft tissue within fossil remains...

soft tissue is SUPPOSED to be gone in about 3,000 years...

but there it is in and a part of fossils that are supposed to be far older?

that is just one of the things that make the theory of evolution less the settled for me...

so...

I do look... I do want to know... I do not ignore the world around me...

and to me science is a part of everything but also I do not worship at the alter of science...

science to me is a METHOD of discovery... a way to learn things... and is little more then that...

further science and those who use it... truly use it... admit there is a very great deal they do NOT know!

and that there are things they can NOT measure or observe or acknowledge because we lack the tools needed...

 

OK... all good...

But...

I have to ask... have you ever actually examined this religion?

had a look at the prophets history and life?

You are aware of Sharia Law?

have you ever actually studied it and examined what it says and why?

If not please familiarizes yourself with it and and then let's continue this discussion...

 

My 2 cents while the thread is still open... Science and religion are not mutually exclusive. One describes how the other describes why. Attempting to use one to disprove the other will never end conclusively because the physical and spiritual world exist concurrently. Evolution is a consequence of the physical laws that our Universe mostly follows. Was our flesh the result of evolution as opposed to spontaneous creation? Don't know and it doesn't matter. The flesh is simply the container we use to motor about in while we are here. Maybe more than just a container, it is also a filter/governor of sorts.

In my case faith is not necessary - the Big Guy saw fit to spell things out for me in a series of religious/spiritual experiences, some very non Christian in nature. I have no idea why and don't have great wisdom to share or the answers to any great riddles (like why pi is an irrational number other than that is a clue to the existence of God within the Universe and that the Universe is ultimately a temporary illusion). My knowledge is not scientifically demonstrated as it is not the result of an experiment that can be repeated and measured and I'm certain some will consider my experiences to be the result of delusion or hallucination. We will have a great laugh about that at the ultimate tavern someday.

 

Chell and I just like to poke each other...we actually agree more than we disagree.

 

And what we disagree upon, is not usually of consequence enough to spill beer or get into a fist fight over.

 

I have made some slight study of the prophet's history and life, and Sharia law but no more than the average Christian, and probably no more than many Muslims have.* Scriptural literacy and comprehension is not a high point of most schmos, be it Christian, or Muslim, though I would guess that most observant, and particularly orthodox Jews would most probably score higher in that regard. Many theists have a relatively small grab bag of selected proof or inspirational texts to recite as the occasion requires; but I suspect that many are as knowledgeable and intimately familiar with their respective sacred texts as Donald T seems to be.




U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey
U.S. Religious Knowledge Quiz

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The "why" of what the Quran and Sharia law says what they say. Is a matter of often hotly disputed contention, even among Islamic scholars, let alone between Muslims and non-Muslims. A casual stroll through Patheos | Hosting the Conversation on Faith and Religious tolerance -- all points of view should be evidence of that. Looking at the Quran and the Judeo component (aka "The Old Testament") of the Christian faith, there's not much to choose between the moral and cultural laws of either.....the essential difference is that Christianity has repackaged the product, and rebranded it; jettisoning some (but not all) of the toxic stuff, to be become a somewhat more customer friendly and consumer attractive product: Islam has yet to make much headway in that kind of more civilised and more secular transition. It should be recognized that Christianity and Judaism are both still undergoing the process of transition to modernity, with some of the more fundamentalist theists yet to disgorge some toxic doctrines dictating attitudes with respect to treatment of GLBTQI folk, women's agency over their own bodies, marriage equality, and so forth.

It's not so much that you are denying the intolerance, just that you feel it justified. Many others here would agree with your thoughts on the matter.

 

I agree that there is still much about the world and the universe we do not know and likely will never know for the remainder of our physical existence in this reality. It is however very conclusive that we live on a planet that is billions of years old. Based on the way you have worded your post, I assume you believe in the young earth theory as it relates to the genesis story with Adam and Eve. I've studied the story of genesis extensively both before I lost faith and after. One of my main focuses was the concept of the original sin which is the reason Jesus was sent to die on the cross. If there was no original sin then there would be no reason for God to sacrifice his only son.

When you look at the book of genesis as it is literally stated and not as a metaphor, you find yourself with an earth that is only 7 to 6 thousand years old. When you have that kind of perspective, of course the idea of evolution will seem ridiculous. But if you can find a way to accept the evidence to imply that the earth is much older than the bible suggests, it makes the idea much more mentally palpable. How long it must have taken the first single celled organisms to form and how many quick or long, drawn out failures sculpted it into the perfect organism ready to embrace it's next stage of evolution. It truly is a beautiful and poetic theory for existence as you can recognize the way that death gives way to life.

I personally don't believe that any intelligent design was required for life to exist as it does. Instead I see it as cause and effect. I believe that all beings alive on this planet today have earned their own existence absent of any God or deity as I can understand how it could have been done... though I still leave a small possibility open for a God to have played a part in the big bang. That however is still debatable.

As for the soft tissue being found, I think this explains it nicely. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.livescience.com/41537-t-rex-soft-tissue.html?client=ms-android-att-us

I neglected your post mostly because I saw it more intended for a theistic perspective. I think I view good and evil in a similar way as you do; I don't believe in absolutes. I don't really think there is any one thing in this reality that can represent an ultimately "good" or an ultimately "evil" force. Besides that, the idea of good or evil relates back to human perspective and concepts of the words. I wouldn't say that there are any true black or white points along the spectrum of good and evil but instead there are varying shades of gray.

I often try to imagine what the world would be like without words and just see things for how they are instead of how they are socially accepted. I try to view myself as simply a point of awareness as I can perceive the reality around me without a label. Interesting things happen when you can take down the walls put up by your social experiences. My religion was the first wall to go. After that I started noticing how many more there were in my mind. I realized that even communication is a superficial representation of reality. To truly understand something, one must see it for everything they know it to be instead of how their words define it.

That's part of the reason why I have trouble believing in "God"; we haven't earned the definition for that word in the proper way.

 

I see what looks like dancing all around the actual subject...

re-branded?

looks like we are on to very different pages here... as after reading and studying the are some tremendous differences...

where does it say to behead non-believers... you seem to suggest all religions say to do so with your post...?

where does it say KILL all atheist? They are to be given NO chance to convert... they are to be put to death...

does it say that in Christian doctrine? With your above post... you seem to be suggesting it does...

if a woman is raped and can not find 4 people that will witness and say she was raped then she gets stoned to death...

where does it say that in Christian doctrine...

I can only respond to your above post with... you have NOT read it... OR is it that you condone it?

and I therefore MUST believe ya don't know what your talkin about... OR is it that you condone it?

re-branded... same same... just repackaged? WTF???

to me... your above comments border on... deliberate ignorance ? ? ?

Dude... sure looks to me like you just tripped over your own feet n fell flat on your face?

help me out here... LOOK! SEE! READ! PLEASE!

If you are not going to explore/read up on the subject... whatever the reason... we have no common grounds for discussion...

 

I think were we differ here starts at something from nothing...

and then you use the term... find a way to accept?

Sure sounds like you are asking me to use FAITH in something to me?

as to what you see as "I think this explains it nicely" read of this before...

the full article I read expressed that a test was done using the explanation given for about 3 months...

and then it was decided all was good... HUH? 3 months is equivalent to 3000 years... since when... ?

I also see MANY "maybe"s and "possibles"... which is also suggesting a FAITH based belief system?

think on that please... the words maybe and possible actually become truth/fact in someones mind...

does that not suggest a desire for something to be so...

to be the way the person perceiving it wish's it to be rather then truth/fact?

when a read the article the first time I noticed those things... your link does nothing to change that...

I am not saying what I presented as scientific fact... nor am I saying you must believe... I acknowledge from the get go...

it has holes in it... I offered it as food for thought...

what I see in your post I see over and over... the THEORY of evolution... which has many holes in it...

seems to have now become proven scientific fact?

why?

cause it's popular? cause this is what the almighty HUMAN professor told you that said it was so?

went to college and witnessed the beginnings of the change from education and how to learn to this current indoctrination crap...

instead of the actual education you pay so much for... did it back in the mid 70's...

learned very quickly about the "weasel" words... the twisting and slanting of truth to achieved a specific outcome...

sadly few people pay attention to the words actually used to convey information anymore...

or they don't bother to look up the meaning fo the words...

example...

"experts say"... yadda yadda yadda...

but the so called experts are not always identified... who made their expert an expert?

Is their expert the person sitting next to them in the office helping write the copy for the news/report?

and in some cases when they are identified the credentials they supposedly have are nonexistent or inflated...

hmmm.... are you using... or perhaps misusing a certain... faith... in you source of information?

do you truly believe they would never lie to you to get money or power or their personal agenda accomplished?

Oh well... you can believe what ya want... it's your right...

 

I take it on much more than faith. I used to work at a cave in Texas which has many dinosaur bones still intact in the cave. The rate a cave grows on average is an inch every hundred years depending on water activity flowing through the microscopic pours of the limestone. As water comes through the rocks it's rich with minerals and calcium and can develop some pretty cool formations over time. Judging by the depth of the bone encased in the wall, it is estimated to have been around 14,000 years old. Before you ask, yes, I have seen cave growth with my own eyes. There were lights that had been down there since the 50s which had quite a bit of calcium growth on them. Some you would need a hacksaw to get out. Now you want to talk about how long it takes a cave to form?

The ceiling of the first room was basically a fossilized coral reef from when the whole area was part of the ocean about 280,000,000 years ago. You could find small fossils of shells and prehistoric organisms embedded all through out the walls. I got to see them every day for about 5 years.

 

spilling beer is alcohol abuse...fist fights are just how guys say "I missed you, brother".

 

Its a guy thing, my dad and ex husband both talk about how they miss bar fighting..... I personally have never like getting bruised so I have never understood hitting each other for fun. But I'm willing to believe guys like it. Must be something about the energy coming out the end of your hands or the physical contact... don't know.

 

It's mostly about making memories.

 

I was on a crew with a Catholic and a Mormon. They were having a friendly religious discussion about Hell. They jokingly said that's where I'm headed to which I replied "one of you fu#%ers will be there with me."

 

Yup, being "one or the other" doesn't guarantee squat. I've met, worked with and been screwed by every stripe and while I don't know for sure, I'd be surprised if many didn't end up warm for eternity. Yes, some have been truly evil people.