bug out gun thoughts...

Yeah it would definatly be less of an issue if in a more rural area and becomes pretty much a mute point if bugging out by vehicle is an option. Where it would mostly be a big concern would be if you were caught in an urban area when something happened. I consider this due to the fact that while I live and generaly work rural, like most anyone that lives rural I still have to go to major urban areas from time to time for things not available here like certian stores, visiting friends and family, occasional Dr visits for special check up stuff and so on. Murphys laws tend to apply enouph I could well see anything that happened happening on one of the rare occasions I would be in the city and roads being grid locked beyond use or shut down. Any plans I make for BO preps include worst case of haveing to get to my destination on foot and on foot getting out of the city would be where this would mostly come into play for me. Currently I keep a shotgun behind the seat and a variety of rounds for it with buck shot, slugs, and goose loads since I find this set up to be the most versitile and generaly toss in the .357 and a box or 2 of shells for any trip more than about 50 miles from home. My primairy plan would be to get home and hunker down since we have a little land thats rural and fairly set up to be sustainable. I just bring this up since so many folks includeing those who are urban, I hear talk about haveing a whole family packi8ng AKs and ARs and drop holsters and such to bug out even if this is on foot and I just see where this could cause problems.
The evasive movement is good in some respects, especialy in fully hostile areas but again in an area where most of the inhabitants are just trying to get through it in one piece and LEOs and such with a bunch of bangers and looters tossed into the mix then I couold see the evasive movement as haveing draw backs as well. Think of it this way, things are screwed up, some rioting, looting, etc going on. Now who is more likely to get shot, someone comeing openly and appearently unarmed up the drive to your front door in the day light or the person 'sneaking' through your back yard at 4 o'clock in the morning? Im not saying trying to keep a low profile is in any way a bad thing, in fact thats kind of my point since long guns in plain view in most any situation makes you get noticed as dose trying to be 'to stealthy', I have just found blending in, hideing in plain site and acting like you fit in is the easiest way not to be noticed.

 

I do keep a couple of maps in the truck but figure I would be sticking to roads even if on foot due to fears of being shot by some spooked farmer for treaspassing if was doing a bunch of off road walking.

 

My .o2:

Yeah ...

I would expect to be hassled walking around with any long gun, unless in the woods during open season on something..And you gotta figure with the rather expansive powers granted to leo's by fema during an emergency they are gonna hassle you and ask for your long gun ( for the "public safety") can't have citizens playing vigilanti, even if the cops are undermanned, undergunned and just turning stuff over to the arriving nat'l guard troopers.
So I'd say make friends with your handgun carried in a sportsman like exposed hiolster, concealed carry would get you in trouble here.hiding a long gun in a pack would probably be considered an ilegally concealed weapon. A holstered handgun still advertises enough to ward off opportunists. Maybe a folding stock mini14 would fit completely hidden in the center of a pack? I could see possibly slipping under the radar with a shoulder slung .30-.30, or even a generic boltgun ( m77 or plain700a/Bdl) Like you guys said, alot depends on the leo climate at the time...

 

Here's my thoughts on this....

As I would be one of the military presence in a 'katrina-like' city, as in SF, it may sound prejudiced though I am going to go with the profiling bit. They say don't judge a book by it's cover, and that is right in some ways. However, if I see Thuggy McThug walking towards me with weapon in hand, he best be damned careful where he points it and how he strides or he may be put down in a hurry.

If you strike me as a danger, then you will be spoken to. You will be under gun point, though it is only for my safety. If you are just heading out, then I see no problem. Though if it's all cocky attitude and cursing, well you can leave as soon as you are relieved of your weapon. I'll even give you my name and number for when you come back to pick it up.

I would firstly follow the keeping everything in different spots idea. Doesn't work out too well if you put all your eggs in the same basket and that basket is stolen or crushed. Then I would leave the house with a handgun that I knew how to shoot and well. If you need a long gun, I'd suggest like mentioned before, a folding stock. You can conceal it if need be.

Word of advice though to those who don't know, which isn't many here, if you approach a LEO or Soldier and you are carrying a long gun make sure it's pointed at the ground and your hand never goes near the trigger. In one split second, you might not need that weapon anymore. Would hate to see that happen to anyone, though I suspect it does.

I am going with a handgun and the storage unit on the outskirts of town. That's just my way of doing it. I'll have a BOB here that will get me there and when I get there, I'll have more supplies to carry me further. Here I live under the constant threat of disaster, earthquakes. One minute you can be fine and the next you could be heaped in rubble. If something like the 1906 earthquake happens again, I would definitely have to find better surroundings as this place would be a mere trash dump.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

We now face a new threat in any attempt to bug out. Buddies who have came back from the sand castle have some videos that I have seen at the gun shop. They show the night sights picking up and the fifties killing terrorists in the middle of the night that didn't even know that they were being watched. Live in New England and next door neighbor packages the night sights for Raython. Two to a beautiful alunimum case. You would be safer at 12 noon in a crowd that at 12 midnight in the middle of nowhere, breaking curfew, carrying a weapon, and by definition an authorized target. The US Army is now attending a post graduate course in attempting to suppress people who don't want to obey their rules. They are damn good and improving. In 1999 the average dogface had about $7,000 worth of gear. Now with the body armor, night vision equipment, electronics tieing them into command and such, they have about $24,000 worth of gear. I don't like the idea of shooting soldiers, had a little experience in that and didn't like being shot at, and don't want to take my old "06" up aginst someone who can kill me at 300 meters with a sniper weapon, call in an air strike with gps with an error of a few inches, and whose armor will stop my shot at a few feet. I think Sergent Shultz is a lot better role model than either Col, Klink or Col. Hogan. I know nosing and were is the strudel. I think that the Bible instructions are the best yet. You have to hide in the mountians in one form or another and when the time comes, you will have to leave with what you have on you. If you go for anything else, it will be too late. Thus cache, cache and recache. I think one model 1917 bolt action 30-06 and 100 rounds of ammo hid in each of 3 seperate places is a lot more valuable than a ar-15 and 1000 rounds of ammo on you when you are trying to bugout to your safe area and the man is going through your goods at the local checkpoint or watching you at night from a helicopter or high point with the worlds finest night vision equipment. My humble opinion.

 

Good point and astute observation: The US Army is now attending a post graduate course in attempting to suppress people who don't want to obey their rules. They are damn good and improving.
Rule#1)civillians going toe to toe with the Us military is a noisy form of suicide.
Addendumto rule#1)U.'S. troops own the night.

Rule#2) partisans will do what partsans have always done "acquire" equipment from "occupying" forces, and or die fighting (refer to rule #1).
Rule#3) fighting an open civil war is the antithesis to "survival"ism.

 

Maybe I am off of the wagon here but I see the U.S. Forces as the good guys. My ideas of a bug out gun in a survival situation is more along the lines of a weather related occurence, Katrina episode, attack by thugs, etc. I could see where you could be mistaken for a bad guy carrying a weapon, and as such I think that concealment is paramount. Having a cache of weapons is also an excellent idea. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

If I had to evacuate could I rely upon having weapons at some other place? Even a cheap SKS with a few mags at a relatives house is better than nothing. After reading through previous stories of the economic collapse of Argentina, my thoughts are going more towards having more handguns stashed. It is a lot easier to conceal a .38 revolver, a Glock, 1911, etc. than a AK, AR, G3, or scoped bolt action. I think that the whole cache idea needs a new thread.

 

"No man you're more right than you know...

 

A thought on the "bug out gun"....

I have to put a vote in for a 12 ga. pump, short barrel, rifle sights, folding stock.

It's cheap, reliable, and more versatile than any gun on the planet. You can use buckshot for dealing with bad neighbors, rifled slugs to take down ANY game within 100 yds or so, a range of shot to put dinner on the table from doves, ducks, geese, rabbits, you name it. You can even buy signal flares for them.

 

The waterproof, floating rifle that breaks down and goes into the stock (or at least the one I know of/had) is the AR15 explorer and IIRC it was made by American arms. While it would beat tossing rocks it was very cheaply made. It had a very poor peep sight and wasnt very acurate, aucward to handle/shoot, nasty trigger pull and after 3k rounds or so through it (with regular cleanings) it started slam fireing and even from the start was kind of bad about jamming. It was lost several years ago in a house fire.

If I was going to go for another takedown rifle for a pack or some such I would most likely go for something more along the lines of the Marlin Pappoos.

 

The .22 was the "armalite ar-7 "designed for aircrew survival, I used to have an charter arms original, now a reasonable facsimile is made by the henry company...they are slick...Original Armalite:deadly on popcans... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-7

 

You know, we're trying to push a rope in thesebugout threads. Iinstead of comig up with a gun everyone seems to agreee on we should start with a defined scenario or problem then no matter how muchyou or I like a .22( or a czech.7.62x76 belted magnum,whatever) for this or that, sometimes its clearly a bad choice...define the problem ( and what's in the closet already doesn't count)and the solution will present itself.