The War on Drugs....or War on Freedom & Liberty

Clyde · Dec 19, 2006

Pot is called biggest cash crop

The $35-billion market value of U.S.-grown cannabis tops that of such heartland staples as corn and hay, a marijuana activist says.
By Eric Bailey, Times Staff Writer
December 18, 2006

SACRAMENTO — For years, activists in the marijuana legalization movement have claimed that cannabis is America's biggest cash crop. Now they're citing government statistics to prove it.

A report released today by a marijuana public policy analyst contends that the market value of pot produced in the U.S. exceeds $35 billion — far more than the crop value of such heartland staples as corn, soybeans and hay, which are the top three legal cash crops.

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California is responsible for more than a third of the cannabis harvest, with an estimated production of $13.8 billion that exceeds the value of the state's grapes, vegetables and hay combined — and marijuana is the top cash crop in a dozen states, the report states.

The report estimates that marijuana production has increased tenfold in the past quarter century despite an exhaustive anti-drug effort by law enforcement.

Jon Gettman, the report's author, is a public policy consultant and leading proponent of the push to drop marijuana from the federal list of hard-core Schedule 1 drugs — which are deemed to have no medicinal value and a high likelihood of abuse — such as heroin and LSD.

He argues that the data support his push to begin treating cannabis like tobacco and alcohol by legalizing and reaping a tax windfall from it, while controlling production and distribution to better restrict use by teenagers.

"Despite years of effort by law enforcement, they're not getting rid of it," Gettman said. "Not only is the problem worse in terms of magnitude of cultivation, but production has spread all around the country. To say the genie is out of the bottle is a profound understatement."

While withholding judgment on the study's findings, federal anti-drug officials took exception to Gettman's conclusions.

Tom Riley, a spokesman for the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, cited examples of foreign countries that have struggled with big crops used to produce cocaine and heroin. "Coca is Colombia's largest cash crop and that hasn't worked out for them, and opium poppies are Afghanistan's largest crop, and that has worked out disastrously for them," Riley said. "I don't know why we would venture down that road."

The contention that pot is America's biggest cash crop dates to the early 1980s, when marijuana legalization advocates began citing Drug Enforcement Administration estimates suggesting that about 1,000 metric tons of pot were being produced nationwide. Over the years, marijuana advocates have produced studies estimating the size and value of the U.S. crop, most recently in 1998.

Gettman's report cites figures in a 2005 State Department report estimating U.S. cannabis cultivation at 10,000 metric tons, or more than 22 million pounds — 10 times the 1981 production.

Using data on the number of pounds eradicated by police around the U.S., Gettman produced estimates of the likely size and value of the cannabis crop in each state. His methodology used what he described as a conservative value of about $1,600 a pound compared to the $2,000- to $4,000-a-pound street value often cited by law enforcement agencies after busts.

In California, the state's Campaign Against Marijuana Planting seized nearly 1.7 million plants this year — triple the haul in 2005 — with an estimated street value of more than $6.7 billion. Based on the seizure rate over the last three years, the study estimates that California grew more than 21 million marijuana plants in 2006 — with a production value nearly triple the next closest state, Tennessee, which had an estimated $4.7-billion cannabis harvest.

California ranked as the report's top state for both outdoor and indoor marijuana production. The report estimates that the state had 4.2 million indoor plants valued at nearly $1.5 billion. The state of Washington was ranked next, with $438 million worth of indoor cannabis plants.

California also is among nine states that produce more cannabis than residents consumed, Gettman estimates. According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, the state's 3.3 million cannabis users represent about 13% of the nation's pot smokers. But California produces more than 38% of the cannabis grown in the country, the study contends.

Nationwide, the estimated cannabis production of $35.8 billion exceeds corn ($23 billion), soybeans ($17.6 billion) and hay ($12.2 billion), according to Gettman's findings.

Blackjack · Dec 19, 2006

I can't even get started on the "War". Pot first started being demonized to the public at the same time the hemp decorticator was invented, making hemp a better deal than cotton. It was all corporate.

The 'war' has cost us more money, lives, and freedom than any terrorist organization. There are american citizens, who are a danger to no one, spending 20 frikin years in prison for smoking a joint (it's true, not exaggeration).

I won't go into it here, but the 'war' has harmed my family more than any criminal ever has, and not even over illegal drugs, over legal ones.

Gotta get out of this thread, my blood pressure is gettin way high. This is a serious sore spot of mine.

Tango3 · Dec 19, 2006

Mike Ruppert,a vocal ex -lapd detective., claims our govt alphabet agencies have a hand in the hard drug import business.
Theres just too much money in it to leave it to the entreprenuers...I agree if something grows in a ditch naturally and I wanto take my clothes off behind the barn and rub it between my buttcheeks that should be between me and my proctologist.[rofllmao]

Blackjack · Dec 19, 2006

Tango3 said: ↑

I agree if something grows in a ditch naturally and I wanto take my clothes off behind the barn and rub it between my buttcheeks that should be between me and my proctologist.
Click to expand...

I always heard you should smoke it, but that might work too.

Tango3 · Dec 19, 2006

LEAFLETS THREE, LET IT BE!!!
lemme telllya.
Daaaahhhmmmnn...

CRC · Dec 19, 2006

Blackjack said: ↑

I can't even get started on the "War". Pot first started being demonized to the public at the same time the hemp decorticator was invented, making hemp a better deal than cotton. It was all corporate.

The 'war' has cost us more money, lives, and freedom than any terrorist organization. There are american citizens, who are a danger to no one, spending 20 frikin years in prison for smoking a joint (it's true, not exaggeration).

I won't go into it here, but the 'war' has harmed my family more than any criminal ever has, and not even over illegal drugs, over legal ones.

Gotta get out of this thread, my blood pressure is gettin way high. This is a serious sore spot of mine.
Click to expand...

Me too BlackJack...

I can't...won't ...go there.

But legal drugs, have harmed me, my family and so many I know...I just ...well...don't get me started.

Clyde · Dec 20, 2006

Mexico troops find hybrid marijuana plant

  By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer Wed Dec 20, 5:35 AM ET

LAZARO CARDENAS, Mexico - Soldiers trying to seize control of one Mexico's top drug-producing regions found the countryside teeming with a new hybrid marijuana plant that can be cultivated year-round and cannot be killed with pesticides.
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Soldiers fanned out across some of the new fields Tuesday, pulling up plants by the root and burning them, as helicopter gunships clattered overhead to give them cover from a raging drug war in the western state of Michoacan. The plants' roots survive if they are doused with herbicide, said army Gen. Manuel Garcia.
"These plants have been genetically improved," he told a handful of journalists allowed to accompany soldiers on a daylong raid of some 70 marijuana fields. "Before we could cut the plant and destroy it, but this plant will come back to life unless it's taken out by the roots."
The new plants, known as "Colombians," mature in about two months and can be planted at any time of year, meaning authorities will no longer be able to time raids to coincide with twice-yearly harvests.
The hybrid first appeared in Mexico two years ago but has become the plant of choice for drug traffickers Michoacan, a remote mountainous region that lends to itself to drug production.
Yields are so high that traffickers can now produce as much marijuana on a plot the size of a football field as they used to harvest in 10 to 12 acres. That makes for smaller, harder-to-detect fields, though some discovered Tuesday had sophisticated irrigation systems with sprinklers, pumps and thousands of yards of tubing.
"For each 100 (marijuana plots) that you spot from the air, there are 300 to 500 more that you discover once you get on the ground," Garcia said.
The raids were part of President Felipe Calderon's new offensive to restore order in his home state of Michoacan and fight drug violence that has claimed more than 2,000 lives in Mexico this year.
In Michoacan, officials say the Valencia and Gulf cartels have been battling over lucrative marijuana plantations and smuggling routes for cocaine and methamphetamine to the United States. In one incident, gunmen stormed into a bar and dumped five human heads on the dance floor.
The president, who took office Dec. 1, sent 7,000 soldiers and federal officers to Michoacan last week.
Officials have arrested 45 people, including several suspected leaders of the feuding cartels. They also seized three yachts, 2.2 pounds of gold, bulletproof vests, military equipment and shirts with federal and municipal police logos. More than 18,000 people have been searched, along with 8,000 vehicles and numerous foreign and national boats.
"We are determined to shut down delinquency and stop crime in Mexico because it is endangering the lives of all Mexicans, of our families," Calderon said, calling the operation a "success" so far.
In the past week, soldiers and federal police have found 1,795 marijuana fields covering 585 acres in Michoacan, security officials said.
Officials estimate the raids could cost the cartels up to $626 million, counting the value of plants that have been destroyed and drugs that could have been produced with seized opium poppies and marijuana seeds.
On Sunday, federal authorities announced the capture of suspected drug lord Elias Valencia, the most significant arrest since the operation began.
Calderon's predecessor, <form class="yqin" action="http://yq.search.yahoo.com/search" method="post"> <input name="p" value=""Vicente Fox"" type="hidden"> <input name="sourceOrder" value="c1,i,yn,c3" type="hidden"> <input name="c1" value="<p style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:13px;padding:0;margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:.5em;">Vicente Fox</p>" type="hidden"> <input name="c3" value="<p><strong>SEARCH</strong><br /><a href="""http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=%22Vicente+Fox%22&fr=yqovly1">News</a> | <a href="http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=%22Vicente+Fox%22&c=news_photos&fr=yqovly2">News Photos</a> | <a href="http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=%22Vicente+Fox%22&fr=yqovly3">Images</a> | <a href="http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22Vicente+Fox%22&fr=yqovly4">Web</a></p>" type="hidden"> <input name="sourceURL" value="" type="hidden"> <input name="fr" value="yq-news" type="hidden"> <input name="context" value="Calderon's predecessor, Vicente Fox, started out with enthusiastic U.S. applause for his own fight against drug trafficking. U.S. officials called the arrest of drug bosses early in his six-year term unprecedented, while Fox boasted that his administration had destroyed 43,900 acres of marijuana and poppy plantations in its first six months and more than tripled drug seizures." type="hidden"> </form> Vicente Fox, started out with enthusiastic U.S. applause for his own fight against drug trafficking. U.S. officials called the arrest of drug bosses early in his six-year term unprecedented, while Fox boasted that his administration had destroyed 43,900 acres of marijuana and poppy plantations in its first six months and more than tripled drug seizures.
Yet drug violence has spiked across the country in recent years, with gangs fighting over control of routes following the arrest of drug lords, authorities say.
Mexico has also continued to struggle with corruption among its law enforcement ranks. Garcia said authorities did not tell soldiers where they were being sent on raids and banned the use of cell phones and radios.

We are by this war. I know it has impacted many peoples lives, but the there has to be a better way to combat it rather than a military type response that has resulted in negative progress towards.

Tango3 · Dec 20, 2006

High yield fast growing marijuana, Should inflate the supply and the drop the price by quite abit... The wonders of modern technology...too bad they couldn't do that with something more useful.

Clyde · Dec 20, 2006

They can, but Genetically Modified foods are fround upon.

CRC · Dec 20, 2006

Speaking of drugs...

Interesting reading....

TUCSON, Ariz. - A preliminary study of the active ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms has found it is effective in relieving the symptoms of people suffering from severe obsessive compulsive disorder, a University of Arizona psychiatrist reports.

The rest of the article is here...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061221/ap_on_he_me/psilocybin_study

Clyde · Dec 21, 2006

My wife hates mushrooms. How am I going to fix he obsessive-compulsive cleaning and chitter-chatter (I mean, I have to tune her out after the first 5 minutes)

If I ground them up and put them in her pasta sauce...............hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Seacowboys · Dec 21, 2006

Reagan's War on Drugs is what started the ball rolling in broadening the power-base of government intervention in our lives. Anytime a war is declared on anything without international boundaries, a gross national product, and a standing army, leaves it open to interputation as to who gets bombs dropped on their families and who becomes collateral damage. The rights of the american people were the worst collateral damage.

Seacowboys · Dec 23, 2006

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=785 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=25>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width=630><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=630 border=0 valign="top"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3 height=49><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=630 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tdtitle vAlign=bottom width=630 height=48>World News</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3><SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript> travelBreadcrumbsArticle();</SCRIPT></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=630><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=305><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=305 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=305 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=305 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>The Times</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>December 23, 2006</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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Barry Cooper, who was one of the leading drug agents in the US, will tell users how to "conceal their stash and fool canines" (Tom Worner/AP)</TD></TR><TR></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD height=10></TD></TR><TR><TD>
How to beat the drug busts - by the best narcotics officer in America

Tim Reid, Washington
</TD></TR><TR><TD height=10></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=305 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>
A former US policeman and undercover drug agent has appalled narcotics officials by introducing a Christmas video for drug users on how to avoid arrest and fool the police.
Barry Cooper, who is described by former colleagues as perhaps the best drug- enforcement officer in America, will next week begin marketing Never Get Busted Again, which will show viewers how to “conceal their stash, avoid narcotics profiling and fool canines every time”.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right border=0 VALIGN="TOP"><TBODY><TR><TD id=mpuHeader name="mpuHeader"></TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=right><SCRIPT type=text/javascript>NI_MPU('middle');</SCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Mr Cooper, who supports the legalisation of marijuana, made the video because he believes that the fight against drugs in America is a waste of money. The convictions of marijuana users fills prisons with non- violent offenders, he says.
“My main motivation in all of this is to teach Americans their civil liberties, and what drives me in this is injustice and unfairness in our system,” Mr Cooper told the Tyler Morning Telegraph in Texas.
He said that he will launch a video, DVD and website on Boxing Day. During an impressive career as a drug officer he made more than 800 drug arrests and seized more than 50 vehicles and $500,000 (£250,000) in assets.
“He was probably the best narcotics officer in the state, and maybe the country, during his time with the force,” said Tom Finley, his former boss.
The decision to produce a video has dismayed drug officials.
Richard Sanders, an agent with the Tyler Drug Enforcement Administration, said that he planned to investigate whether it violated any laws.
“It outrages me personally, as I’m sure it does any officer that has sworn an oath to uphold the laws of this state and nation,” Mr Sanders said. “It is clear that his whole deal is to make money and he has found some sort of scheme, but for him to go to the dark side and do this is infuriating.” Deputy Constable Mark Waters, a narcotics officer in Texas, said that the video was insulting to police. “This is a slap in the face to all that we do to uphold the laws and keep the public safe,” he said. Mr Cooper argues that murderers, child molesters and rapists often receive shorter jail terms than drug users. “The trillions of dollars we’re spending in our war on drugs should be used to protect our children,” he said. “Our children are being molested every day and everyone knows we have lost the war on drugs.”

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Infidel · Dec 23, 2006

Reposting what SeaCowboys posted. cause his is unreadable
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="400"> <tbody><tr><td align="left" valign="top">The Times</td> <td align="right" valign="top">December 23, 2006</td> </tr></tbody></table>
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Barry Cooper, who was one of the leading drug agents in the US, will tell users how to "conceal their stash and fool canines" (Tom Worner/AP)</td> </tr> <tr> </tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td height="10"></td> </tr> <tr> <td>
How to beat the drug busts - by the best narcotics officer in America

Tim Reid, Washington
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="10"></td> </tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td>  <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="400"> <tbody><tr> <td>
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</td></tr></tbody></table>A former US policeman and undercover drug agent has appalled narcotics officials by introducing a Christmas video for drug users on how to avoid arrest and fool the police.
Barry Cooper, who is described by former colleagues as perhaps the best drug- enforcement officer in America, will next week begin marketing Never Get Busted Again, which will show viewers how to “conceal their stash, avoid narcotics profiling and fool canines every time”.
Mr Cooper, who supports the legalisation of marijuana, made the video because he believes that the fight against drugs in America is a waste of money. The convictions of marijuana users fills prisons with non- violent offenders, he says.
“My main motivation in all of this is to teach Americans their civil liberties, and what drives me in this is injustice and unfairness in our system,” Mr Cooper told the Tyler Morning Telegraph in Texas.
He said that he will launch a video, DVD and website on Boxing Day. During an impressive career as a drug officer he made more than 800 drug arrests and seized more than 50 vehicles and $500,000 (£250,000) in assets.
“He was probably the best narcotics officer in the state, and maybe the country, during his time with the force,” said Tom Finley, his former boss.
The decision to produce a video has dismayed drug officials.
Richard Sanders, an agent with the Tyler Drug Enforcement Administration, said that he planned to investigate whether it violated any laws.
“It outrages me personally, as I’m sure it does any officer that has sworn an oath to uphold the laws of this state and nation,” Mr Sanders said. “It is clear that his whole deal is to make money and he has found some sort of scheme, but for him to go to the dark side and do this is infuriating.”
Deputy Constable Mark Waters, a narcotics officer in Texas, said that the video was insulting to police. “This is a slap in the face to all that we do to uphold the laws and keep the public safe,” he said.
Mr Cooper argues that murderers, child molesters and rapists often receive shorter jail terms than drug users. “The trillions of dollars we’re spending in our war on drugs should be used to protect our children,” he said. “Our children are being molested every day and everyone knows we have lost the war on drugs.”

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Infidel · Dec 23, 2006

this is really weird. I think I am able to edit Seacowboys post or something in his message screwed up the forum formatting

ColtCarbine · Dec 23, 2006

Infidel said: ↑

this is really weird. I think I am able to edit Seacowboys post or something in his message screwed up the forum formatting
Click to expand...

if you're able to edit other members postings w/o quoting then hopefully an Admin will change your Forum Permissions in their Control Panel

Seacowboys · Dec 28, 2006

I was handed the dreaded white envelope at work week before last and refused to pee in their little jar. One of the vice-presidents mistakenly CCed me when she wrote the CEO telling him this was grounds for termination and speculating if I was on drugs, had issues, or was just being uncooperative.
I replied to her email and CCed everybody in the company the following text:
Why did "Seacowboys" refuse his third random drug test for this year?
A. on drugs
B. has issues
C. uncooperative?
D. was just too busy finishing up a multi-million dollar project and trying to get home before Christmas to spend time with family and friends.
To anyone concerned: Please be advised that my urine belongs totally to me and I will not pee on demand when I have other more pressing issues at hand. It is my understanding that the Company gets a considerable savings in insurance premiums from our random drug-testing program. If this is the case, then I want to be compensated for my urine. I will split the savings 50/50 with you or , otherwise, please be a little more considerate in selecting the time-line for your random selections, if you would like me to continue providing you with free specimines of my personal urine.

ghrit · Dec 28, 2006

MT headed sacks did something similar to me, sent me the notice to report at 3"30 on a Friday afternoon. Gave me a whole two hours to get there. So I called, planning on dishing a bit of yammer. The test lab closed at 3. You can bet there were a couple phone calls with less than polite language exchanged. Next closest "authorized" lab was three hours away. Just say no.

Seacowboys · Dec 30, 2006

Well, I did the math and it doesn't make sense to me. Our company realizes a 5% savings across the board on USL&H and workman's comp because of our random drug-testing program. This appears to be a substantial savings, at first glance but after having divided it between the different classes of employees and averaging them out, it comes to a savings of nominally $55.00 per year for each employee. The cost of each piss-test in nominally $50.00 and every new hire gets one for pre-employment and then at least one a year (I've had three in the past year; so much for random) random testing. This puts the break-even point at nine years. I have been with this company for seven years and have had approximately 13 random drug screenings for a total costs of $650.00. This balances against a pemiums savings of $385.00 across the same time-span; this doesn't include the lost time/wages and other associated costs in taking off for a portion of the day to go piss in a jar.

Tango3 · Jan 5, 2007

Good for you Seacowboys.....
"You can treat me like a part of the income producing team around here or you can treat me like an unimportant liability.... you guess which one makes me want to produce at a high level and bring money into this company ". Corporate bastids. Power; man they do it so you know who is in charge and because nobody says no.
(sourgrapes? something like that)...
Tellem," if they want some urine they can just stand outside with a teacup because you've been pissin' in the wind since you signed on with that outfit..".

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