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One Year In Hell...Surviving A Full SHTF Collapse In Bosnia

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Mountainman, Apr 29, 2015.

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Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

Many in the precious metals community are eagerly anticipating a complete systemic collapse of the financial system because as “preppers”, they expect to not only survive, but to prosper in a SHTF scenario. We suspect however that the following MUST READ account of surviving the Bosnian war in the midst of a complete collapse of the grid & financial system will be eye-opening in just how difficult it is to survive a full-on Mad Max scenario, even if one has spent years preparing for it.

I am from Bosnia. Between 1992 and 1995, it was hell.
For one year, I lived and survived in a city with 6,000 people without water, electricity, gasoline, medical help, civil defense, distribution service, any kind of traditional service or centralized rule.Money soon became worthless. We returned to an exchange. For a tin can of tushonka (think Soviet spam), you could have a woman.
Arms, ammunition, candles, lighters, antibiotics, gasoline, batteries and food. We fought for these things like animals.
In these situations, it all changes. Men become monsters.
Strength was in numbers. For a man living alone, getting killed and robbed would be just a matter of time, even if he was armed.
The following is my experience…

Our city was blockaded by the army; and for one year, life in the city turned into total crap. We had no army, no police. We only had armed groups; those armed protected their homes and families.
When it all started, some of us were better prepared. But most of the neighbors’ families had enough food only for a few days. Some had pistols; a few had AK-47s or shotguns.

After a month or two, gangs started operating, destroying everything. Hospitals, for example, turned into slaughterhouses. There was no more police. About 80 percent of the hospital staff were gone. I got lucky. My family at the time was fairly large (15 people in a large house, six pistols, three AKs), and we survived (most of us, at least).

The Americans dropped MREs every 10 days to help blockaded cities. This was never enough. Some — very few — had gardens. It took three months for the first rumors to spread of men dying from hunger and cold. We removed all the doors, the window frames from abandoned houses, ripped up the floors and burned the furniture for heat. Many died from diseases, especially from the water (two from my own family). We drank mostly rainwater, ate pigeons and even rats.

Money soon became worthless. We returned to an exchange. For a tin can of tushonka (think Soviet spam), you could have a woman. (It is hard to speak of it, but it is true.) Most of the women who sold themselves were desperate mothers.

Arms, ammunition, candles, lighters, antibiotics, gasoline, batteries and food. We fought for these things like animals. In these situations, it all changes. Men become monsters. It was disgusting.

Strength was in numbers. A man living alone getting killed and robbed would be just a matter of time, even if he was armed.

Today, me and my family are well-prepared, I am well-armed. I have experience.

It does not matter what will happen: an earthquake, a war, a tsunami, aliens, terrorists, economic collapse, uprising. The important part is that something will happen.

Here’s my experience: You can’t make it on your own. Don’t stay apart from your family; prepare together, choose reliable friends.

1. How to move safely in a city

The city was divided into communities along streets. Our street (15 to 20 homes) had patrols (five armed men every week) to watch for gangs and for our enemies.

All the exchanges occurred in the street. About 5 kilometers away was an entire street for trading, all well-organized; but going there was too dangerous because of the snipers. You could also get robbed by bandits. I only went there twice, when I needed something really rare (list of medicine, mainly antibiotics, of the French original of the texts).

Nobody used automobiles in the city: The streets were blocked by wreckage and by abandoned cars. Gasoline was very expensive. If one needed to go somewhere, that was done at night. Never travel alone or in groups that were too big — always two to three men. All armed, travel swift, in the shadows, cross streets through ruins, not along open streets.

There were many gangs 10 to 15 men strong, some as large as 50 men. But there were also many normal men, like you and me, fathers and grandfathers, who killed and robbed. There were no “good” and “bad” men. Most were in the middle and ready for the worst.

2. What about wood? Your home city is surrounded by woods; why did you burn doors and furniture?

There were not that many woods around the city. It was very beautiful — restaurants, cinemas, schools, even an airport. Every tree in the city and in the city park was cut down for fuel in the first two months.

Without electricity for cooking and heat, we burned anything that burned. Furniture, doors, flooring: That wood burns swiftly. We had no suburbs or suburban farms. The enemy was in the suburbs. We were surrounded. Even in the city you never knew who was the enemy at any given point.

3. What knowledge was useful to you in that period?

To imagine the situation a bit better, you should know it was practically a return to the Stone Age.

For example, I had a container of cooking gas. But I did not use it for heat. That would be too expensive! I attached a nozzle to it I made myself and used to fill lighters. Lighters were precious.

If a man brought an empty lighter, I would fill it; and he would give me a tin of food or a candle.

I was a paramedic. In these conditions, my knowledge was my wealth. Be curious and skilled. In these conditions, the ability to fix things is more valuable than gold.

Items and supplies will inevitably run out, but your skills will keep you fed.

I wish to say this: Learn to fix things, shoes or people.

My neighbor, for example, knew how to make kerosene for lamps. He never went hungry.

4. If you had three months to prepare now, what would you do?

Three months? Run away from the country? (joking)

Today, I know everything can collapse really fast. I have a stockpile of food, hygiene items, batteries — enough to last me for six months.

I live in a very secure flat and own a home with a shelter in a village 5 kilometers away. Another six-month supply there, too. That’s a small village; most people there are well-prepared. The war had taught them.

I have four weapons and 2,000 rounds for each.

I have a garden and have learned gardening. Also, I have a good instinct. You know, when everyone around you keeps telling you it’ll all be fine, but I know it will all collapse.

I have strength to do what I need to protect my family. Because when it all collapses, you must be ready to do “bad” things to keep your children alive and protect your family.

Surviving on your own is practically impossible. (That’s what I think.) Even you’re armed and ready, if you’re alone, you’ll die. I have seen that happen many times.

Families and groups, well-prepared, with skills and knowledge in various fields: That’s much better.

5. What should you stockpile?

That depends. If you plan to live by theft, all you need is weapons and ammo. Lots of ammo.

If not, more food, hygiene items, batteries, accumulators, little trading items (knives, lighters, flints, soap). Also, alcohol of a type that keeps well. The cheapest whiskey is a good trading item.

Many people died from insufficient hygiene. You’ll need simple items in great amounts. For example, garbage bags. Lots of them. And toilet papers. Non-reusable dishes and cups: You’ll need lots of them. I know that because we didn’t have any at all.

As for me, a supply of hygiene items is perhaps more important than food. You can shoot a pigeon. You can find a plant to eat. You can’t find or shoot any disinfectant.

Disinfectant, detergents, bleach, soap, gloves, masks.

First aid skills, washing wounds and burns. Perhaps you will find a doctor and will not be able to pay him.

Learn to use antibiotics. It’s good to have a stockpile of them.

You should choose the simplest weapons. I carry a Glock .45. I like it, but it’s a rare gun here. So I have two TT pistols, too. (Everyone has them and ammo is common.)

I don’t like Kalashnikov’s, but again, same story. Everyone has them; so do I.

You must own small, unnoticeable items. For example, a generator is good, but 1,000 BIC lighters are better. A generator will attract attention if there’s any trouble, but 1,000 lighters are compact, cheap and can always be traded.

We usually collected rainwater into four large barrels and then boiled it. There was a small river, but the water in it became very dirty very fast.

It’s also important to have containers for water: barrels and buckets.

6. Were gold and silver useful?

Yes. I personally traded all the gold in the house for ammunition.

Sometimes, we got our hands on money: dollars and Deutschmarks. We bought some things for them, but this was rare and prices were astronomical. For example, a can of beans cost $30 to $40. The local money quickly became worthless. Everything we needed we traded for through barter.

7. Was salt expensive?

Yes, but coffee and cigarettes were even more expensive. I had lots of alcohol and traded it without problems. Alcohol consumption grew over 10 times as compared to peacetime. Perhaps today, it’s more useful to keep a stock of cigarettes, lighters and batteries. They take up less space.

At this time, I was not a survivalist. We had no time to prepare — several days before the shit hit the fan. The politicians kept repeating over the TV that everything was going according to plan, there’s no reason to be concerned. When the sky fell on our heads, we took what we could.

8. Was it difficult to purchase firearms? What did you trade for arms and ammunition?

After the war, we had guns in every house. The police confiscated lots of guns at the beginning of the war. But most of them we hid. Now I have one legal gun that I have a license for. Under the law, that’s called a temporary collection. If there is unrest, the government will seize all the registered guns. Never forget that.

You know, there are many people who have one legal gun, but also illegal guns if that one gets seized. If you have good trade goods, you might be able to get a gun in a tough situation. But remember, the most difficult time is the first days, and perhaps you won’t have enough time to find a weapon to protect your family. To be disarmed in a time of chaos and panic is a bad idea.

In my case, there was a man who needed a car battery for his radio. He had shotguns. I traded the accumulator for both of them. Sometimes, I traded ammunition for food, and a few weeks later traded food for ammunition. Never did the trade at home, never in great amounts.

Few people knew how much and what I keep at home.

The most important thing is to keep as many things as possible in terms of space and money. Eventually, you’ll understand what is more valuable.

Correction: I’ll always value weapons and ammunition the most. Second? Maybe gas masks and filters.

9. What about security?

Our defenses were very primitive. Again, we weren’t ready, and we used what we could. The windows were shattered, and the roofs in a horrible state after the bombings. The windows were blocked — some with sandbags, others with rocks.

I blocked the fence gate with wreckage and garbage, and used a ladder to get across the wall. When I came home, I asked someone inside to pass over the ladder. We had a fellow on our street that completely barricaded himself in his house. He broke a hole in the wall, creating a passage for himself into the ruins of the neighbor’s house — a sort of secret entrance.

Maybe this would seem strange, but the most protected houses were looted and destroyed first. In my area of the city, there were beautiful houses with walls, dogs, alarms and barred windows. People attacked them first. Some held out; others didn’t. It all depended how many hands and guns they had inside.

I think defense is very important, but it must be carried out unobtrusively. If you are in a city and SHTF comes, you need a simple, non-flashy place, with lots of guns and ammo.

How much ammo? As much as possible.

Make your house as unattractive as you can.

Right now, I own a steel door, but that’s just against the first wave of chaos. After that passes, I will leave the city to rejoin a larger group of people, my friends and family.

There were some situations during the war. There’s no need for details, but we always had superior firepower and a brick wall on our side.

We also constantly kept someone watching the streets. Quality organization is paramount in case of gang attacks.

Shooting was constantly heard in the city.

Our perimeter was defended primitively. All the exits were barricaded and had little firing slits. Inside we had at least five family members ready for battle at any time and one man in the street, hidden in a shelter.

We stayed home through the day to avoid sniper fire.

At first, the weak perish. Then, the rest fight.

During the day, the streets were practically empty due to sniper fire. Defenses were oriented toward short-range combat alone. Many died if they went out to gather information, for example. It’s important to remember we had no information, no radio, no TV — only rumors and nothing else.

There was no organized army; every man fought. We had no choice. Everybody was armed, ready to defend themselves.

You should not wear quality items in the city; someone will murder you and take them. Don’t even carry a “pretty” long arm, it will attract attention.

Let me tell you something: If SHTF starts tomorrow, I’ll be humble. I’ll look like everyone else. Desperate, fearful. Maybe I’ll even shout and cry a little bit.

Pretty clothing is excluded altogether. I will not go out in my new tactical outfit to shout: “I have come! You’re doomed, bad guys!” No, I’ll stay aside, well-armed, well-prepared, waiting and evaluating my possibilities, with my best friend or brother.

Super-defenses, super-guns are meaningless. If people think they should steal your things, that you’re profitable, they will. It’s only a question of time and the amount of guns and hands.

10. How was the situation with toilets?

We used shovels and a patch of earth near the house. Does it seem dirty? It was. We washed with rainwater or in the river, but most of the time the latter was too dangerous. We had no toilet paper; and if we had any, I would have traded it away.

It was a “dirty” business.

Let me give you a piece of advice: You need guns and ammo first — and second, everything else. Literally everything! All depends on the space and money you have.

If you forget something, there will always be someone to trade with for it. But if you forget weapons and ammo, there will be no access to trading for you.

I don’t think big families are extra mouths. Big families means both more guns and strength — and from there, everyone prepares on his own.

11. How did people treat the sick and the injured?

Most injuries were from gunfire. Without a specialist and without equipment, if an injured man found a doctor somewhere, he had about a 30 percent chance of survival.

It ain’t the movie. People died. Many died from infections of superficial wounds. I had antibiotics for three to four uses — for the family, of course.

People died foolishly quite often. Simple diarrhea will kill you in a few days without medicine, with limited amounts of water.

There were many skin diseases and food poisonings… nothing to it.

Many used local plants and pure alcohol — enough for the short-term, but useless in the long term.

Hygiene is very important, as well as having as much medicine as possible — especially antibiotics.
Click to expand...

One Year In Hell…Surviving a Full SHTF Collapse in Bosnia | SilverDoctors.com

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

My Mileage Does Vary - MM

How can you be tried by your peers when 90% of the people are not your peers. - MM

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ III%

Mountainman, Apr 29, 2015

#1

Bandit99, kellory, Ganado and 5 others like this.
Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

Yeah, it's disconcerting how fast things can change, in the blink of an eye.
We have come to the realization that when it comes down, not if, there will be hard times for all. Unless your a multi-millionaire, you can never be fully prepared and safe 100%.
Death is going to be a major theme in any event that occurs, people better know that going in! This guys story is a good lesson in why you do not want to be anywhere near a city, and even in the country your going to have similar challenges of desperate people!
Civil unrest can occur at any moment, Ferguson, LA, Maryland.... it will definitely be best to get the Heck out of sight and Fast!
I have been thinking about this a lot! I guess I will load all I can Carry into my Trailer and head out to the country and disappear down a dirt road as far as I can and start scouting for a good place to dig in. Most likely the big roads will be shut down, so secondary location will be useless unless its close. I live in the country already and have a place picked out just in case, but I know I may not be able to make it there, in which case I will just have to wing it. Fortunately there is a lot of forestry land as well as timberland, with numerous logging roads.

A Man without a plan, is a Man Without A Plan!! Hurricanes, Tornado's, Floods, Power outages, Civil Unrest...... Pick your poison, how many times do you hear the words "We were totally Unprepared for this, we never expected....." Nuff Said.

Gopherman, Apr 29, 2015

#2

Tully Mars, Mountainman and Yard Dart like this.
madmax Far right. Bipolar. Veteran. Don't push me.

Great read. I liked a buncha stuff in there for my cabin prep. I stopped reading pretty quick at the comments.

madmax, Apr 29, 2015

#3
Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

Lot's of good information and nuggets to ponder in that post.... thanks @Mountainman, good stuff !!

"Freedom isn't free" --Colonel Walter Hitchcock
“The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” General 'Mad Dog' James Mattis
non semper erit aestas- It will not always be summer (be prepared for hard times)!!

Yard Dart, Apr 29, 2015

#4

Mountainman likes this.
HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

I know/knew more than one Gold Bug. That being the type that just oozed, with great glee and anticipation, the thought that they were the only smart people and they had their bets covered with Gold.

They all seem to have disappeared when gold did not hit $4000 a few years back. Their assets were tied up and they could not find buyers that seemed "fair" so they were food less, homeless and FRN less.

Now take a good honest game of craps, at least the dice know!

Last edited: Apr 29, 2015

Been there, done that,

HK_User, Apr 29, 2015

#5

chelloveck and tulianr like this.
Salted Weapon Monkey+++

Love the article and the mention of gun confiscation done by gun registration. Wish others would wake up and realize that in the USA.

Salted Weapon, Apr 30, 2015

#6

kellory, Mountainman and Yard Dart like this.
Ganado Monkey+++

Salted Weapon said: ↑

Love the article and the mention of gun confiscation done by gun registration. Wish others would wake up and realize that in the USA.
Click to expand...

Of course they are and did you see his back up plan?

I know a woman who Survived the purges in yogoslavia....muslims locked her in a cell and did every torture imaginable (she glosses over that part) and it was Muslims who rescued her and got her and her son out of yogoslavia and got her to USA. And those same Muslim families that rescued her died for that act of kindness

The American vets from Vietnam wrote her letters that helped her get over her rage and fear and refined her English..
She is an amazing woman and thank God for Our vets who were so generous with their letters.

I hope none of us are ever in this situation..

Sometimes there is Justice and
Sometimes that there is just US.

Ganado, Apr 30, 2015

#7

arleigh, Gopherman, kellory and 3 others like this.
Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

Never did thank whoever changed this from a link to a real post. Thank you very much and wondering who that was?

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

My Mileage Does Vary - MM

How can you be tried by your peers when 90% of the people are not your peers. - MM

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ III%

Mountainman, Jun 10, 2015

#8
Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

Mountainman said: ↑

Never did thank whoever changed this from a link to a real post. Thank you very much and wondering who that was?
Click to expand...

Your welcome.

"Freedom isn't free" --Colonel Walter Hitchcock
“The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” General 'Mad Dog' James Mattis
non semper erit aestas- It will not always be summer (be prepared for hard times)!!

Yard Dart, Jun 10, 2015

#9

Mountainman likes this.
jimLE Monkey+++

i came across the bosnia read in a diff site.and like others have said.it's a great read..he did make some great points..and it's also a great point of reference to what can happen any where.and in different ways..we can learn from that story..

Stuff often does not go like we figure...So what's your plan B?
be prepared,be worried,be careful..and watch your 6..

jimLE, Jun 13, 2015

#10

kellory likes this.
Kingfish Self Reliant

I read this article or one just like it a few years back. My plan mimics his. Lots of trade items. Lighters, Raman noodles, soap, water,Alcohol . One of his items that we really take to heart is containers. We keep lots of 2 liter pop bottles for trade water.Defense is paramount. Garden, Livestock, and staple food items like sugar,salt, spices. We stock a lot of toilet paper, We have long term power and fuel reserves. I even have a jeep that runs on propane and has no computer so its not effected by emp or solar flare pulse. Disinfectant dish soaps and bleach. Medical supplies and things like Aspirin , cough syrup and Nyquil. Trade items really are important if you ask me. This guy survived in city, in a war torn country. Real life not fantasy.

WILL FISH FOR FOOD

Kingfish, Dec 6, 2015

#11
jimLE Monkey+++

i've been saving the bottles that lipton tea and other drinks come in,in which they all have the screw on caps.i need to start filling them up with water..

Stuff often does not go like we figure...So what's your plan B?
be prepared,be worried,be careful..and watch your 6..

jimLE, Dec 6, 2015

#12
Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

I saw much of Bosnia and Kosovo right after the Dayton accords and think Germany WW2. The towns were trashed... Ohhhh...I have a lot of stories about that place. It was a learning experience in more ways than one. I really need to start a thread about war stories...

One thing he/she says really worries me "gun confiscation done by gun registration." We don't do gun registration but we do have to write our name and details when we purchase a firearm and it is held there at the store. This has always bothered me because - well - it's on file, in back and white. So, whether it could be seized legally or illegally, it is there for some agency to obtain...and I am completely certain that they will.
And, I really don't see a way around it.
Rick

"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject." - John Adams
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." - Thomas Paine
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."- Thomas Paine
"Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it." - Mark Twain
"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the law abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless." - Lysander Spooner

Bandit99, Feb 19, 2016

#13
AD1 Monkey+++

Private sales!!

Respectfully
Armordude
Prepared Ham – Survival/Disaster Preparedness, Emergency Communications, CERT, Ham Radio

NRA Life Member
Certified Glock Armorer
Extra Class Amateur Radio Op & VE

"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

George Orwell

AD1, Feb 19, 2016

#14

Yard Dart likes this.
chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

HK_User said: ↑

I know/knew more than one Gold Bug. That being the type that just oozed, with great glee and anticipation, the thought that they were the only smart people and they had their bets covered with Gold.

They all seem to have disappeared when gold did not hit $4000 a few years back. Their assets were tied up and they could not find buyers that seemed "fair" so they were food less, homeless and FRN less.

Now take a good honest game of craps, at least the dice know!
Click to expand...

That's assuming the dice know whether they are loaded or not

Rules are for the guidance of the wise, and the blind obedience of fools. - unsourced

To deny your oppressor's, or your own humanity is to descend into barbarism. - V. Chelloveck

Survival is a battle for the mind...mainly one's own. - V. Chelloveck

A beautiful idea founded on faulty reasoning is like a turd wrapped in gold foil, tinsel and glitter. Neither are wholesome if swollowed whole! - V. Chelloveck

What is a religion, but a cult with a larger following and a veneer of respectability. - V.C.

chelloveck, Feb 19, 2016

#15
Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

@RickR I have a friend that owns a gun shop and hate to tell you that when ATF does audits they are taking all the info off the 4473 forms you have to fill out. Plus when a shop closes all the forms are sent to the ATF.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

My Mileage Does Vary - MM

How can you be tried by your peers when 90% of the people are not your peers. - MM

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ III%

Mountainman, Feb 19, 2016

#16

Bandit99 likes this.
Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

Mountainman said: ↑

@RickR I have a friend that owns a gun shop and hate to tell you that when ATF does audits they are taking all the info off the 4473 forms you have to fill out. Plus when a shop closes all the forms are sent to the ATF.
Click to expand...

I had my Enhanced Carry instructor, who also owns the gun store/range where the lessons were given, tell me exactly the opposite. He's a pretty famous guy and spends about 200 days a year on the road testifying at gun crimes and self-defense incidents where a gun was involved, that is how he really makes his money. I also used a private FFL guy (a deputy sheriff) to purchase my K9 off Gunbroker who said the same thing, that he is forced to maintain the 4473 but that is all...so I don't know if it is different here in Idaho or what. The way I understood it was the ATF would get the serial number showing the gun was sold but they have no knowledge to whom.

Now, having said that - maybe I am wrong but I will make a point the next time I am around the gun store to stop in and ask him specifically, what happens to that information and if any of it is released to anyone else.

Nevertheless, if Martial Law is declared then they will collect all those records from the stores and registered FFLs.

@BTPost Can you weigh-in here. As an FFL holder for 30 years and you sell and buy firearms what happens to the 4473 that is filled out?

Rick

Last edited: Feb 20, 2016

"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject." - John Adams
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." - Thomas Paine
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."- Thomas Paine
"Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it." - Mark Twain
"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the law abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless." - Lysander Spooner

Bandit99, Feb 19, 2016

#17
BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

The Form 4473s, by Federal Statute, MUST STAY with the FFL, Period, and can NOT be. Removed by ANYONE, including an ATF Inspector.... They MAY copy information from the 4473, but they CAN NOT remove the 4473s from the possession of the FFL. IF, or WHEN the FFL closes his Business, then he is REQUIRED, to forward ALL those 4473s to the Federal Depository... Where they are stored... If, or when, the Federal .Gov closes up Shop, a Bear will cause a Fire in my Office, and ALL mine will be LOST, in the Fire.... MAYBE...

Bruce in alaska (BTPost) An Atheist will never be able to say, "I TOLD YOU SO"!! ....

BTPost, Feb 20, 2016

#18

Ganado likes this.
chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

BTPost said: ↑

The Form 4473s, by Federal Statute, MUST STAY with the FFL, Period, and can NOT be. Removed by ANYONE, including an ATF Inspector.... They MAY copy information from the 4473, but they CAN NOT remove the 4473s from the possession of the FFL. IF, or WHEN the FFL closes his Business, then he is REQUIRED, to forward ALL those 4473s to the Federal Depository... Where they are stored... If, or when, the Federal .Gov closes up Shop, a Bear will cause a Fire in my Office, and ALL mine will be LOST, in the Fire.... MAYBE...
Click to expand...

It may just be one of those occasions when a prayer actually results in a miracle happening.

Rules are for the guidance of the wise, and the blind obedience of fools. - unsourced

To deny your oppressor's, or your own humanity is to descend into barbarism. - V. Chelloveck

Survival is a battle for the mind...mainly one's own. - V. Chelloveck

A beautiful idea founded on faulty reasoning is like a turd wrapped in gold foil, tinsel and glitter. Neither are wholesome if swollowed whole! - V. Chelloveck

What is a religion, but a cult with a larger following and a veneer of respectability. - V.C.

chelloveck, Feb 20, 2016

#19

Ganado likes this.
BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

It is the OLD " The Bear ate my Homework." Dodge.....

Bruce in alaska (BTPost) An Atheist will never be able to say, "I TOLD YOU SO"!! ....

BTPost, Feb 20, 2016

#20

Ganado, Yard Dart and oldawg like this.

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Black Swan Event :: 100 Trillion Dollars worth of derivatives

FX swaps, swap lines and off the balance sheet debts seem to have gotten out of control. There doesn't seem to be anything anyone can do to...

Thread by: VisuTrac, Dec 7, 2022, 3 replies, in forum: Financial Cents
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Collapse of Civilization - What to expect

A recent thread elsewhere on the forum has gotten me to wonder: To what level would mankind sink should there be a worldwide holocaust resulting...

Thread by: Dunerunner, Dec 5, 2022, 72 replies, in forum: General Survival and Preparedness
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30 Signs The US Economy Is Being Surpassed By China

We are doing it to ourselves. Our younger generations want to live well without producing value. [MEDIA]

Thread by: 3M-TA3, May 21, 2022, 49 replies, in forum: Financial Cents
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What Are Your Financial Plans?

According to these 2 people we are going to see the economy in America fall 80% this year. What have you done? What are your plans? Is it too late...

Thread by: enloopious, Feb 7, 2022, 26 replies, in forum: Tin Foil Hat Lounge
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TOTM January 2021... Prepping Strategies for the coming year

Times have changed, at least from my perspective. I cannot depend upon the economy, food supply chain, utility services, banking, or availability...

Thread by: Dunerunner, Dec 31, 2020, 28 replies, in forum: Survival Topic of the Month
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How high will ammo go?

There’s hardly any ammo to be found anywhere. No .38 special,.357,.45 acp, .32 hr,.327,and even 9 mm is hard to find at less than .70 rd. Who...

Thread by: oldman11, Oct 31, 2020, 26 replies, in forum: Firearms
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TOTM - November 2019 World Economic Collapse

I started thinking, several years ago; what it would take to survive a World wide economic collapse. There would be no food production, no water...

Thread by: Dunerunner, Nov 1, 2019, 32 replies, in forum: Survival Topic of the Month
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Survival: Economic Collapse PDF eBooks (.zip file)

Asia-Off-Grid submitted a new resource: Survival: Economic Collapse PDF eBooks (.zip file) - A Zipped File Of 2 Resources, Regarding Survival...

Thread by: Asia-Off-Grid, Aug 12, 2018, 0 replies, in forum: General Survival and Preparedness
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Survival: Economic Collapse PDF eBooks (.zip file) 2018-08-12

A list of the 2 titles included in the .zip file: How_To_Survive_An_Economic_Collapse.pdf (2013)...

Posted By: Asia-Off-Grid, Aug 12, 2018 in category: General Survival
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Depressions can be soooooo depressing.

Here's an interesting article on a subject dear to my heart: "The Greater Depression" - Comparing The 1930s And Today | Zero Hedge This article...

Thread by: UncleMorgan, Jan 26, 2017, 5 replies, in forum: Financial Cents
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Venezuela: Putting the Perspective in Your Preps

Venezuela is in bad trouble, and the MSM isn't wasting a lot of time mentioning it. A few years ago Venezuela was a veritable South American...

Thread by: UncleMorgan, Aug 25, 2016, 15 replies, in forum: General Survival and Preparedness
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Economy Failing/ Stock Market Booming?

I've been wondering how the Stock Market could possibly be doing so well as the Economy falls down the toilet. 93+ million Americans are...

Thread by: Gopherman, Jul 19, 2016, 24 replies, in forum: Financial Cents
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The Collapse of the Western Fiat Monetary System may have Begun. China, Russia and the Reemergence o

On 19 April 2016, China was rolling out its new gold-backed yuan. Russia’s ruble has been fully supported by gold for the last couple of years....

Thread by: Ganado, Jul 12, 2016, 15 replies, in forum: General Discussion
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Economic Meltdown Starting

Bix Weir: Economic Meltdown Starting https://youtu.be/3SKvLqNwp4E This is very long but worth listening too with regard to international...

Thread by: Ganado, Jun 13, 2016, 14 replies, in forum: Financial Cents
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Create a Collapse Supply List

This is a great, well written article about observing and learning from what is going on in Venezuela. I have a thread on the collapse. I hope...

Thread by: Motomom34, May 16, 2016, 18 replies, in forum: General Discussion
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The "Great Reset"?

[IMG] A very common phrase used over the past couple years by the International Monetary Fund’s Christine Lagarde as well as other globalist...

Thread by: Yard Dart, May 10, 2016, 18 replies, in forum: Financial Cents
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Recession? Fiat Chrysler cuts 1,300 workers in Michigan, scraps shift

Fiat Chrysler cuts 1,300 workers in Michigan, scraps shift Reuters 2 hours 27 minutes ago [IMG] By Bernie Woodall DETROIT (Reuters) - Fiat...

Thread by: HK_User, Apr 6, 2016, 24 replies, in forum: General Discussion
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Venezuela- The Collapse

Venezuela has been in a slow decline. Year after year the situation has been getting worse. We had a thread here on the monkey in 2014- Venezuela...

Thread by: Motomom34, Feb 16, 2016, 41 replies, in forum: General Discussion
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(Exchange Stabilization Fund - why the dollar isn't dead

TRUTH AND FREEDOM SEEKERS Ever heard of the ESF? (Exchange Stabilization Fund) I must say I was Amazed, Shocked and Horrified when I watched...

Thread by: Legion489, Jan 30, 2016, 0 replies, in forum: Financial Cents

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