Who are we trying to reach?

Discussion in 'Survival Communications' started by William Warren, Dec 28, 2013.


  1. AmericanRedoubt1776

    AmericanRedoubt1776 American Redoubt: Idaho-Montana-Wyoming Site Supporter+

    I am totally new to Ham and hope to take my two exams in 2014. Would any of you fellow Ham Monkeys please recommend such a receiver to listen to HF to whet my appetite while I save up the ~$1000 for a Yaesu FT-450D 100 Watt , 6 thru 160M HF All-Mode Amateur Ham Radio Transceiver that someone recommended to me. Hopefully it doesn't cost $300 for such a receiver since I'd rather save the money for the end goal of an HF transceiver.

    We have two ~75 foot tall palm trees on our suburban property 25 feet from our house. What antenna would you suggest I use in conjunction with these trees to get the best HF access?
     
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    All three Japanese OEMs make Good Receivers, for HF.... Icom has their R70/R71 Series, and Yaseu has their equivalent, as does Kenwood. Used ones go for around that price, for the Solid State Receivers. If you can get to a Ham SwapMeet, you can usually pick up ham, "Boat Anchor" Tube Receiver for much less. Tubes are getting hard to source though, these days.
    I have two Icom R71As here, that I use to monitor the Marine HF Frequencies. They are left over, from Back in the Day, when I was a FED, and they paid me to listen, and Monitor the HF Bands. A Receiving Antenna can be as simple as a spool of #14 Stranded Copper THNN Wire Strung up thru the trees, and then build yourself a very Good RF Ground, to match.
     
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  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    To receive, you don't need a fancy antenna. A simple wire, the longer the better, strung up in just about any configuration you can imagine will work for reception. Later, when you get your ticket, antennas for transmitting need to be somewhat (read as WAY less) random. Back in the day (WAY back, 60 odd years) I didn't bother with a ground, and never knew I should have one. G-Pa's Grundig portable didn't have a way to hook one up anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
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  4. William Warren

    William Warren Monkey+++

    I'd like to "whet your appetite", but I'm going to sound a note of caution: I think my first thought has to be that I shouldn't "bring you down" or do anything to create false expectations that might make you disappointed in the hobby before you have the knowledge and experience that will allow you to make a more informed choice.

    Choosing a good receiver is the most important thing a new ham does, but I must start by telling you that the receiver has to be chosen not only for the band(s) you want to listen to, but also for your location. Just as you wouldn't buy a paddle boat to cross an ocean, or a 707 to go island-hopping in the caribbean, so the choice of receiver must be carefully matched both to your intended use and the place where it will be installed.

    It's important to have good information before you buy, and that means (frankly) having a healthy distrust both of advertisements and of folklore. It's even more important to obtain information that you can only get by using a good receiver before you make a decision.

    Here's why: the computer revolution has added incredible amounts of noise to the radio spectrum, to the point where a receiver that was top-notch in the 60's or 80's is now a distant second to more modern designs. Since every computer has a tiny radio transmitter in it, most urban locations are awash in the false signals from hundreds of Pc's, iPads, smart phones, and every home electronic devices from burglar alarms down to time-sensitive thermostats.

    As if that weren't enough, "man made" noise which is not from computers has gotten a lot worse, not only due to cheaply made "home electronics" such as TV's, stereos, cd players, and electronic games, but also because many electric utilities have neglected their physical plant to the point where they only repair insulators and wires when failures occur, not in time to prevent corona effects and sparking from radiating in all directions.

    Many, many years ago, the "ne plus ultra" of commercial ham transceivers was the Collins KWM-2A, which was the standard fixed station unit in much of the Strategic Air Command, most embassies, and in many high-end ham shacks. I once went to the "MARS" station run by the Air Force in Saigon, in order to use the radios to make a phone call to home, and I was astonished to see that alongside every KWM-2A was a separate Collins 51S-1 receiver, which cost almost twice what a KWM-2A did, even though it wasn't capable of transmitting. The operators explained that the KWM-2A transceivers could not handle the interference caused by the other KWM-2A units in the station and at other locations nearby, and so the station's manager had to requisition the 51S-1's to keep them in operation. The moral is that even the "best" units have limitations, some of which won't be apparent until they're in use.

    So, having bored everyone to tears with my trip down memory lane, I'll give you advice on receivers:

    1. Borrow one that covers all the bands you want to use, and listen to them for several weeks. If you're ten miles outside of a small town, you'll have a much easier time hearing interesting signals than you will if you're in an apartment on the 99th floor of your block. Take notes about how much interference you here, what time(s) of day it occurs, etc.: if you're next door to a welding shop, you'll probably find that radio reception is blocked while they're open, but even in a residential neighborhood, you'll hear lots of "chirps and burps" caused by all the "incidental radiators" in the homes - both yours and your neighbors. If you can here most of the things that interest you without too much trouble, count yourself lucky and think about getting a similar unit.
    2. Be careful about "boat anchor" receivers, i.e., those from the 50's, 60's, and 70's that use vacuum tubes. On the one hand, they can be had for attractive prices at most ham flea markets. On the other, you'll need to get a stock of spare tubes, and occasionally repair aged components that have deteriorated over time.
    3. Don't assume that older hams always know what's "best" in a receiver. We're only human, and someone like me may tell you that a Hammarlund HQ-180-AC is the best receiver ever built, just because we owned one back in 1980 (I did). Remember that 1980 was a long time ago, and receivers have a much tougher job to do today than they did in the heyday of Morse Code and "big iron" transmitters: until just a decade or two ago, ships at see were often equipped with "regenerative" Morse Code receivers, and with "crystal" backup receivers, which worked exactly the same way that they did in the 1920's. When a ship is hundreds of miles away from land, there's little problem with noise, and very few cell phones turned on, and almost no need for anything fancier than what always worked before, especially since anything that interferes with a "sparks" operator trying to copy a weather report will be turned off immediately by order of the Captain. You don't have the luxury of controlling most of your "noise environment", so you'll need better receiving technology and the chance to try it out before you buy.

    Your receiving antenna can make a very big difference in your enjoyment of your SWL and ham hobbies. Since most noise is electrostatic, some stations have found that rotatable "magnetic loop" antennas allow them to "tune out" noise from specific locations and thus get better reception of the signals that they do want. In like fashion, installing a "Beverage" (Beverage antenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) antenna might give you a dramatic improvement in reception - but both magnetic loop and Beverage antennas are harder to install than a random length of wire, and will require negotiations with your "XYL", your neighbors, and maybe with your condo association, if you're in a home that's subject to deed restrictions.

    Boy, I'm just a ray of sunshine today, aren't I?

    OK, here's the bottom line: don't assume you can buy your way out of a noisy environment. I've known hams who literally had to sell their homes and move to a new location in order to enjoy their hobby. The "three R's" rule applies: "Location, location, and location" will determine what type of receiver and antenna is best for you.

    William Warren
     
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  5. AmericanRedoubt1776

    AmericanRedoubt1776 American Redoubt: Idaho-Montana-Wyoming Site Supporter+

    Thank you @BTPost, @ghrit, @William Warren for your knowledgeable suggestions. I was surprised at the cost of receivers. Might as well save up and get a full HF transceiver. I had hoped to be able to "skulk" on the regional HF bands with some sort of affordable $200 receiver, but they all seem to cost $400 to $800.
     
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  6. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    There was more great info in this thread than I could hope to absorb
     
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  7. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    These are good questions. I have holes in my communications with those that depend on me.

    Am I able to talk to people who will depend on me? If cell phone service stays up then we would be okay. They have been taught to text during a large scale event because the phone circuits get busy. But if cell service goes down and we are scattered, there is an issue. Radios & CB's are at the house. We do not carry radios in each car and the CB's are in a box in the basement.

    Are others able to reach me? Depends on who is trying to reach me. Actually I really do not have people outside of my kids that I would be desperate to reach. Yes, it would be nice to make sure my Mom back East is safe but first I need to get the local issues fixed. Have to think on the rest before I answer the rest.
     
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  8. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    In the past I had a wide range of friends on the air we often communicated with.
    In fact it was such a close community we practically knew the voice of every person with in 100 mile range of the 4 repeaters we could access .
    Emergency communications were a good quarter of our communications ,others were road conditions and weather conditions and any activities that others might need to know about . A few of us were connected to the sheriffs department and 3 of the repeaters had phone patch which came in handy a lot .
    Some guys wood cutting used the mobile unit in their truck as a repeater to reach them in a canyon they could not reach the fixed repeater with a hand held .
    I have answered emergencies and been the recipient of help for my own emergencies my friends came to my rescue .
    All of my family participated with amateur radio when we lived in the mountains, of course cell phones had their place but these failed during major events, so the burden for communication fell back on amateur radio .
    There are cell phones that will communicate phone to phone like a radio but for a very limited distance .
    If your waiting for the emergency to start communicating your missing it .
    Communication habits have to be built, and the character of listening has to be cultured . My wife did not like listening but she was not interested in making friends either.
     
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  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Out here in the Alaskan Bush, I carry my TH-D72A dualBand HT whenever I leave the Cabin Area, PERIOD... Even if I am in the Rhino, that has a TM-D710A dualBand Mobile in it... So I can have Comms back to the cabin... or in the Summers, Comms back to the Cannery Office.... These also give me Comms to the USCG, State Troopers, and Bush Pilots if required in an Emergency.... Out here, We are our own First Responders, and Comms is critical in ANY First Response Senerio.....
     
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  10. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Once you get into radio and learn the strength of the antenna and find it is literally 1/2 of the radio and learn the value in correct tuning it to the frequency you might be using at the time . Some guys use a long wire antenna and it's almost stealthy being only wire ,some put it across trees , or from the tree to the house or Under the peak of the roof of the house or under the eve of the roof of the house . During the war Germans were hiding the antenna in and around all kinds of things.
    The range of antenna design is almost infinite . but there are guidelines in design you will learn that will protect your radio and your self .
    Ham radio has gone well past talking if your so inclined so welcome to a new and fascinating adventure .
     
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  1. DKR
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