More LEOs behaving badly

More reason not to call the cops;

Man Tasered, Shot to Death After Father Calls 911 About Depression, Lawsuit Alleges - Hit & Run : Reason.com


"Other sheriff's deputies arrived on scene, none of whom rendered any first aid
to Ramirez. Plaintiffs are informed and believe that Stanislaus County Sheriff's
Department has a policy to not render aid if it appears that an individual, shot by
a member of its department, will likely die without aid," the complaint states.

 

The bidding for lawsuit to recompense for damages should start at 12 million for bad raids with Supervisor who signs off fired and never allowed to work in LE again - I don't think they would happen anywhere near as often ? anyone doubt that ?

 

It seems that about the same time "officer safety" became an acceptable reason to suspend citizen's rights, "I tried" became good enough for fulfilling due process.

But I've been on that soapbox enough...

 

OSP investigates tasering of naked 11-year-old girl along Ashland highway

OSP investigates tasering of naked 11-year-old girl along Ashland highway | OregonLive.com

Oregon State Police is investigating an incident early Sunday morning in Ashland, where a trooper, trying to stop a naked 11-year-old girl from crossing Interstate 5 traffic lanes, used a taser on her.


Just after 4 a.m., a passing motorist spotted the girl, later identified as a husky 11-year-old girl suffering from autism, between mileposts 18 and 19.


The girl ignored the Good Samaritan's efforts to get her to stop, said Lt. Gregg Hastings, an OSP spokesman.


When a trooper arrived, the girl remained uncooperative and continued wandering along an unlit stretch of highway, Hastings said. The trooper was "worried about hallucinogenic impairment," when the girl ran out into traffic lanes, he said.


After two warnings, the trooper used her taser to bring the girl down, Hastings added.


The girl was not injured and was apprehended. Once she was identified, it was determined the girl had wandered about a mile from her home.


Initial reports described the child as a woman. Hastings said her age was unclear during the incident. The trooper reported thinking the girl was in her late teens or early 20s.


"We had no idea of who it was, no idea of the person's age," he said.


The child's father, Aram Hampson, told a Medford-area television station that his daughter has a severe case of autism and cannot carry on a conversation.


“You can just tell you’re not dealing with a regular person who’s either on drugs or anything else,” Hampson told KDRV-TV 12. “Physically (she) does not look like an average 11-year-old. She’s kind of, you know, husky.”


Hampson called the taser use "excessive."


A use-of-force investigation into the incident is ongoing, Hastings said. Meanwhile, the trooper remains on the job.


-- Kimberly A.C. Wilson

 

OK MM...convince me this officer was "acting badly".

I think there was a valid concern about her wandering into traffic. While she is only 11, the story I hear is that she was a pretty good sized girl, the natural assumption would be that she might be using some substance or otherwise be mentally impaired in some way. Wrestling a person to the ground on the side of the road is not as easy as some might imagine and, had she broken lose and been hit by a vehicle there would most certainly been hell to pay for the officer.

I disagree strenuously with the use of tasers because one is PO'd...or just because one can and like to see people jerk around, but I honestly believe this officer might have had valid concerns for the girl's safety and made the decision to end the incident as quickly and safely as possible...

I would bet that the father would have still found it excessive if the officer had succeeded in tackling her and she was returned scraped and abraded...and certainly if he failed and she was hit by a semi...

 

I have a MAJOR problem with the way that tasers are deployed anymore at the drop of a hat without trying to go hands on first. All that you have to do anymore is not follow what they are telling you and it's light em up time.

May not have been a good "acting badly" post since a beating did not occur afterwards, that we know of. I was not there and maybe that was the best option, but tasing a hefty 11 YO girl without trying to restrain her seems ridiculous to me.

A taser is one level of force below a baton. So back in the day before tasers, would it be acceptable to use a baton as often as tasers are used anymore? Don't think so if you don't want to be sued all the time.

 

I fully agree that taser use in general is out of control and AT LEAST as abused as baton use.

However, I still see this as a case of a cop at 4:00 AM on the side of a major interstate facing a young naked person acting somewhat crazy and allegedly wandering into the road. As a "force of one", regardless of respective size, strength or even skill, quickly catching and securing another individual can be problematic...especially if that person does not (due to drugs or other mental condition) react to stimuli normally. I seriously doubt he did it because she declined to get in his car.

Yes, there is a good chance he could have caught her and restrained her without resorting to the darts, but one thing that HAD to be in his mind was the fact that failure to do so might not mean he could then escalate to tasing...but rather switch to investigating (and being investigated FOR) a fatal auto-pedestrian accident.

I'm right behind you when it is a case of an officer who uses excessive force...and I am a firm believer that taser use is potentially deadly force. However, in this case, I think it possible I might have made the same decision he did in the pursuit of MINIMIZING the risk of death to a disturbed citizen.

 

I thought it was interesting that after being shot twice in the chest, point blank, with whatever caliber of handgun that Philadelphia police carry, he walked (the printed report says, "ran") for a block before collapsing.

It's odd how life imitates art. The zombies in the movies always have to be shot in the head to be stopped. Now, bathsalts, or whatever this freak was on, has brought that reality from the screen to a neighborhood near you. Without a head shot, the argument over calibers and stopping power, has been rendered relatively irrelevant.

And the idiots want to take away high capacity magazines. I'm starting to more seriously consider a drum fed 12 ga.

 

I don't like that they killed the dog, but it was justifiable, in my opinion. We have had hundreds of dogs through this house in the last few years. We help out the Pound in transfers, overnights, short stays, and month long kenneling for heart worm treatment. I know how to handle dogs. We train for voice and hand commands as well. Rotts are pretty smart for dogs, but even just playing, they can hurt you. I have 4 stitches from just playing with them. The dog didn't mean any harm, just got carried away.

Using a dog as a weapon should be considered assault with a deadly weapon. they can and they do kill. The phrase "a loose cannon" does not mean a hot head or a bad temper, it means something dangerous and un-controlled. a cannon, weighing half a ton, broken loose from it's control ropes, and rolling on a sloping deck, was both deadly, and terrifying. No one man could stop it, it took many to bring it under control. Well, that dog, was a loose cannon, in the sense, that it could do great harm, in a short time, and it was agitated by it's master's arrest. I KNOW my two big dogs will protect my children, they have already, and they were in hand on leashes. I am always on guard when large dogs are loose in the neighborhood, because I know what they CAN do. when the dog jumped up, it became a threat that could not be ignored, it can and will lunge to knock you down, and savage you. Dogs kill full sized bucks by tearing out the throat, after ham-stringing. For that matter, I lost a family pet, and friend to wild dogs. I know what they can do. So this one is NOT a bad shooting, just a bad set of circumstances.
As for the noise complaint, I know the law here is, if the doors and windows are closed, and you can hear it outside the car, it is too loud. You can't hear sirens, brakes, screams, and neither can anyone around you. I yanked the keys, and shut one car down, when he was asked nicely to lower the volume, and instead cranked it up, an opened the doors. My ears hurt. (that kind of crap is beyond rude,it is assault, in my book) We went a few rounds, and i think I still have those keys here someplace. The man SHOULD have been cited for the noise, weather or not he was arrested for the filming. (that is a separate issue)

 

Kellory - What you wrote is true but I think you missed the main point of this.

The man was arrested for obstruction of justice for filming the police. The police caused this whole incident to happen because they were being jackboot assholes.

 

"The man SHOULD have been cited for the noise, weather or not he was arrested for the filming. (that is a separate issue)" I didn't miss it, Some places and some activities do not allow for filming. I don't see the problem with filming in this case, but in some cases, it can interfere with the safety of officers when off the job. I will let the facts play out as they will in this case. We do not know all the facts.
So, if filming broke the law, AND the dog's owner drew attention to himself with his behavior, and his loud music, then he brought this about on his own. he could have filmed that scene covertly at least a dozen ways, but he chose to stand out and be loud. That was stupid. he has a record of being stupid, that would make his a known problem. By the testimony of a witness, he was belligerent. "MY #$@# radio". I say again, he brought this on himself. in addition, putting the dog in a car for ANY length of time, could also be seen as cruelty to animals. people get arrested for THAT every day around the country. The window was down, which allowed for heat and airflow, BUT also allowed for escape. The car was not the right choice for containing a large dog. (again stupid, and could be seen as criminally stupid). He was to be arrested, and could have made proper arraignments for the dog, by calling someone )and informing them of his arrest in the process), or handing the leashed dog off to a neighbor. He made several bad choices, and THAT led to both his arrest, AND the death of his dog. No real difference to "suicide by cop". The cops were forced to react by the actions of the perp, they didn't go looking for him. He brought it to them.

 

How many dogs have you had to kill cuz their owners were jerks or being too loud?
For someone who claims to "know how to handle dogs" you seem very scared of them. I'm not so certain it's a good idea to allow you to "help out the pound".
They should have a list of people like you who think it's 'ok' to shoot a dog just cuz it growls.

 

I have worked with trained attack dogs, rescues, guard dogs, police dogs, mutts, and puppies, lots and lots of puppies. the only ones I have ever had to shoot, were a wild pack of four, that had dug their way into my fenced yard and torn my cat in half. I put 14 of 15 shots in four running targets, with iron sights, and tears in my eyes, because I was not fast enough to unlock, load and fire. I killed 4, i buried 1.

 

Liked your post when you only had the first line, but when you added the other two lines I can't do it.

 

Actually, the story I read said the obstruction arrest was a result of not lowering the volume on the car stereo when the officers told him they needed to hear what was going on with the armed robbery situation. I saw no report that they made any objection to his videography.

Hawthorne is, to a great extent, "Git City" and has been for 30 years now. Patrolling in the area is closer to patrolling Baghdad than it is to where most of us live. I grew up not far away when it was an average middle class city and, on rare visits back to the area watched it become a place where I would not go at noon unarmed. While working an armed robbery situation, officers have a valid need to communicate with one another and to hear such things as yelling and gunshots.

Don't fall into making the same assumptions as some of our less intelligent cop-hating rectal cavities who firmly believe that every cop is out there just looking for an excuse to shoot something or someone. I happen to have Rotties and, while they are normally friendly types, absent an order (from me) to stand down, they would most certainly be perceived as a threat by anyone who placed hands upon me in a situation they perceived as hostile. This would most certainly be exacerbated by the fact that people in places like Hawthorne who have Rotties, Dobies and other protective breeds tend to have them as weapons rather than pets.

 

Sounds to me like a place that you might NEED a dog for protection from criminals.
Would you be ok with shooting the dog in the head because it caused you to not be able to hear your comms? I doubt it...you prolly have more empathy than that if you are a dog person. Just FYI - I don't "hate cops" at all...I think they are absolutely necessary for a civil society.... I just feel that many have lost their place as "civil servants" and the new blood are more like a gang of pirates than "helpers".

"How can we bust this guy for something and generate revenue..."
instead of...
"How can we defuse a situation and keep the peace...."

 

As usual, you misstate the situation. The dog got shot for running at and jumping at the officers who were arresting it's owner for refusing to turn down the blasting stereo...not because the dog interfered in communications. Had the owner been shot, you might have a point (which is most likely why you "confused" the situation)...but he wasn't, just arrested. Yes...if the Rottie were running toward me and jumping at me or a partner while the partner was cuffing the owner, I would shoot it.

As far as your "FYI" statement, your prior posts clearly point out your lie.

 

Check out the PM I just sent you. You are going to be surprised and will make you wonder about my LEO posts.