The 22lr is badass and here is why

I'll say the 22lr is a good shtf gun along with the 12ga.

non timebo mala

 

So you think the 22 Long Rifle round is whimpy! Well, it's time to give this tiny 22 LR bullet the resepct it has earned and deserves. I have seen up close and personal what damage the 22 LR is capable of doing and I have a lot of respect for this little bullet, and you should too. It's not my caliber of choice when choosing a battle rifle but it can be used for defense, hunting and survival.


Lethality of the Aguila SSS 60-grain round

Tests have revealed 16"-24" of penetration into ballistic gelatin at 200 meters using the Aguila SSS 60-grain bullet. I have not personally shot my Savage Mark II rifle that far yet but, at 100 yards I can keep all my rounds within 2 inches and there is no keyholing. I believe this round would prove fatal to anyone unlucky enough to be shot with it. Also, I have no doubt that this bullet would penetrate the human skull at 100 yards.


The following article was posted by DesertFrog on: Sniper's Hide: For the Serious Tactical Marksman




Lethality of the 22 LR standard velocity round

I've been shooting the 22LR for many years and even bought a new bolt action 22 LR rifle (Savage Mark II BTVS) so I could train more cheaply for tactical precision rifle matches. As I started to train, I actually became impressed with what could be achieved with the 22LR in short and medium distances and wondered about the actual lethality of the round, so I decided to do some research in that area.

I mean, I know that the 22LR has been a good hunting round for small critters/varmints such as rabbits and squirrels but occasionally you hear it is used as well for killing deers, coyotes and bigger animals - heck, on the internet, you can even find a story about the elephant being killed with a 22LR on the internet, LOL!

During my research, I came upon several instances whereby the 22 LR has also been used by the military and law enforcement as well. There were several stories of Chechen snipers using the 22LR in urban setting or Israeli snipers using it in "crowd control".

I started talking to several many people through bulletin boards to find more information about the lethality of that round, specifically from a tactical viewpoint - I.E. How effective and lethal is it? Any information about its lethality should also of interest to the average target shooters or even plinkers, being that it is one of most available/cheap round. Having the correct information could make people more aware of the possible consequences of not treating the 22LR with respect - I think we've all heard "It's just a 22! It's not that powerful, etc....

To get back to the subject, talking to hunters on various message boards and filtering out the "I heard that or someone told me", here are some of the typical feedback/information I received from people who actually did it:

Lots of varmint kills up to 150 yards (This distance came up the most).
Larger animals kills at shorter distance - Deer/Coyotes at 100 yards and some even 150 yards .
Mention of a larger animal kill at 200 yards.
Mention of actual rabbit kills at 175, 225 and 330 yards.

Overall the distance of 100 to 150 yards came up in 50% of the responses.

To go back to the "tactical" aspect and the actual effectiveness/lethality of the round in military/law enforcement settings - no real information was actually available. There were lots of stories and hearsay of people getting shot with 22s and how effective it was (or wasn't) but no ACTUAL and PROVEN information - the main feedback was that shot placement was the most important in a military/law enforcement setting but there were no answers as to what would happen if someone was shot with a 22LR at medium distance (200 to 300 yards). When would the round stop penetrating several layers of clothing/skin and become completely ineffective and useless from a tactical point of view.

Gathering all the information from hunters, target shooters, etc....I personally came up with the conclusion that the 22LR "may be" effective up to 200 yards and possibly penetrate several layers of clothing which are usually something like a "t-shirt, a shirt and a jacket" and frankly I would not have been surprised if it didn't penetrate at all.

Actual information not being available, I decided to conduct a test myself to see how far would a 22LR round penetrate 3 layers of clothing and penetrate skin as well. I looked at several options such as using ballistic gel, wet newspaper, etc... but finally ended up with the cheapest option and, what I thought the somewhat most realistic as well: purchasing a frozen turkey, thaw it and wrap it in 3 layers of clothing. This would be a good test to see how far the 22LR would penetrate.

Here is an account of my "experiment" and Boy! Was I in for a surprise in many levels....

The test took place in the California desert at my usual shooting place for long distance shooting - far away from civilization and very safe. As it happens sometimes, nature has its own mind and does not always follow your plans. The weekend I chose and got ready for (including thawing the meat) ended up being quite windy.

How windy? Here is a look at my tent during the trip - yep, that's the wind pushing the side of the tent nearly flat. Wind was an average of 25 MPH with gusts up to 30 MPH and lowest at 18 MPH.

This was a nightmare for any rimfire shooter and frankly I was extremely close to just pack it up and go home after doing some shooting with my 308. I thought shooting the 22LR in these conditions (the wind was quite violent and shifting constantly between 18 and 30 MPH) would be absolutely impossible.

The main goal of the trip was this research and I already purchased the turkey so I decided to at least "try it" with much reservation as to being able to actually hit the target. Having participated in many tactical long distances matches over the years, I decided to follow my own hard learned lesson: "When in doubt, follow what the book says" or, simply, trust your ballistic information, instruments and basic field craft. Because I use the 22LR for training, I pretty much replicated my setup and had at hand all I needed such as ballistic data card for elevation and windage, wind meter and range finder.

The setup for the turkey was as follows: 3 layers of clothing wrapped around it and taped in the back (although care was given to not make the clothing too tight either) and a white paper on top so we could see the impacts at long distance. The test was done at the maximum distance of 300 yards because honestly, I thought that penetration would probably not occur at that distance and because, above 300 yards, using my elevation knob and even mildots was pretty much useless.

A 400 yards shot is basically an 80 MOAs drop. Even shooting at 300 yards requires me to place my elevation for 200 yards 927.5 MOAs) and use 6.6 MILS (actually already off the mildots reticle so there is somewhat of a guess).

The clothing layers were composed of the following: One usual heavy cotton t-shirt, one heavy cotton shirt and a canvas raincoat. The wrapped around turkey looked like this:
My son was with me and it took use considerable time to find the right location. Safety was definitely an issue but also, in order to have any chance to hit the target with winds that strong we had to shoot within the wind. Even then, because of the constant shifting of the wind from 7 to 5 O'clock, I had doubts we could even pull it off. So instead of 300 yards, we actually started at 250 yards which allowed me to use my elevation knob zeroed at 200 yards and my mildots reticle and thus "less guessing".

As you can see the package is quite small at 250 yards!!!! The wrapped Turkey was a bit bigger then a human head, it wasn't a big turkey to start with - I actually bought the cheapest one ($12.) We positioned ourselves on top of the Jeep. My son used my 308 and the Leupold 6.5-20X to spot me (if we could do so) and I shot the 22LR. Equipment was as follows:

Savage Mark II BTVS in 22 LR
Bushnell 3200 Tactical Scope - 10X Mildots
Ammunition was Wolf Match Target - 40 Gr Bullet - 1050 fps

Note that shooting in that position was not the most stable and 25-30 MPH wind actually WILL shake you around. I calculated the wind cycle to range from around 18 to 30 MPH. It was a quick wind cycle with periods of 18 MPH lasting only a 4-5 seconds at best. I decided to shoot at the lowest point of the wind cycle and simply use 0 windage as I was shooting in the wind.

My first round went slightly to the left missing the target by a couple of inches, my second round did the same on the right side and my third one actually hit the small turkey dead center. I was actually amazed!!!
I was ready to shoot 50 rounds in those windy conditions to have some "Hope" to hit the target because, from what I was told, the 22LR is so unstable in the wind at long distance. Yet despite the atrocious conditions - using elementary ballistic information and field craft, shooting it in 18 to 30 MPH was factually quite easy. From a tactical viewpoint, every single shot would have hit a center mass target.

Inspecting the 250 yards target was quite revealing....the bullet had gone through the 3 layers as if it was nothing.

Encouraged by the results and the fact that we could hit the target, we placed the turkey at 300 yards. I spotted for my son and he took the shots. Again we were amazed that despite the wind we had 4 hits out of 10 rounds!!! If someone had told me he can shoot such a small target in those conditions, before we did so ourselves, I would have laughed.

Here was the result: Note that the 300 yards round in the center seemed to have keyhole. The probability is that the bullet hit some of the sage brush that was moving around wildly in the wind because no other impacts showed signs of keyholing and we were somewhat shooting through the moving brushes.

Now the huge surprise was the following. After taking the shot at 250 yards I was quite happy to see that the bullet had penetrated the 3 layers of clothing but I would have never thought of actually checking the BACK OF THE TARGET.

After shooting the 300 yards and taking back the target to the Jeep, we realized that one round had gone through the whole turkey, the clothing layers in the front AND the layers in the back as well!!!!!! And this had to occur between 250 yards and 300 yards. This was MUCH MORE than I ever had anticipated for the standard velocity 22LR round!!!!!

Not only that but because the clothing was wrapped around and folded/taped in the back, it was the equivalent of shooting through 3 layers of clothing in the front and 6 LAYERS of clothing in the back plus on layer of duct tape! We did one more shot at 100 yards and the round went through easily. The turkey was the equivalent of 7 inches of meat and bones. Unwrapping the target showed that the rounds at 300 yards (assuming that the round that went through was probably the 250 yards round) went through the turkey and got stuck under the skin. Still penetrating 7 inches of bones and meat. My conclusions:

I've gained a new respect for the 22LR and its efficiency. The 22 rounds is very underrated. It many ways, it is much more powerful then I anticipated.

From a tactical viewpoint, it was also very interesting that despite the atrocious conditions, basic ballistic information and field craft (wind cycle, shooting in the wind, etc...) make it possible to shoot effectively that round at medium distances.

300 yards can be a VERY doable and an effective shooting distance in normal conditions. We did it in terrible conditions.

Although I probably won't do further tests, I can imagine that round penetrating layers of clothing and be effective at much longer distances then 300 yards - maybe 500 yards and beyond.

But now I consider proven that within 300 yards it can be accurate and extremely lethal!!!

I hope this helps others to gain more respect for the small 22 Long Rifle bullet and thus make sure we all practice safe shooting, even if it looks like a tiny little round!


This was my test of 22 LR ammo accuracy!

After sighting in my Savage Mark II G .22 rimfire rifle I conducted the following test with these 12 brands of ammo (shooting 10 round groups per target). The target was a Caldwell 3 inch stick-on orange circle placed in the center of my printer paper. I wanted to know which rimfire ammunition would give me the best group at 100 yards. I expected the match grade ammo to do the best, especially after hearing everybody bragging about Wolf Match Target, Aguilla Interceptor and Federal Gold Medal. All of the following brands of 22 LR ammo were tested.

1. Winchester, 40 grain solid
2. Federal Bulk from Wal-Mart, 36 grain HP
3. Federal American Eagle, 38 grain HP
4. Federal Gold Medal, 40 grain solid
5. Wolf Match Target, 40 grain solid
6. CCI Mini-Mag, 36 grain HP
7. CCI Mini-Mag, 40 grain solid
8. Remington Cyclone, 36 grain HP
9. Remington Thunderbolt, 40 grain solid
10. Aguilla Super-Extra, 40 grain solid
11. Aguilla 22 Interceptor, 40 grain solid
12. Aguilla Sniper Subsonic, 60 grain solid

The brands below are listed in order...1 through 3, 1 being the most accurate;

1. Thunderbolt
2. Aguilla Sniper Subsonic
3. Federal Bulk from Wal-Mart

The absolute worst ammo was the Aguilla Interceptor. This group was spread all over the place. It was fast, but not accurate.





Aguilla 60 grain SSS ammo was used on this target. As you can see all of the rounds hit low and to the right because my scope was set for 40 grain ammo. This grouping was only 2 inches and if I set my scope for this ammo - Well, it would be quite deadly!


Thunderbolt ammo was used on this target -
Grouping was just under 3 inches





Thunderbolt 22 LR ammo has gotten a bad rap about not being accurate and producing lots of duds. As you can see...Thunderbolt ammo can be quite accurate in a good rifle and I have never encountered one single dud.....ever!!! Match grade ammo is not needed to produce good accuracy (what you need is a good rifle).

 

What is rarely considered about the .22LR is the weight of both the firearm and the ammunition. You can carry a lot of rounds of .22LR much further than larger calibers. And when your rifle weighs 4 to 5 lbs. it is a great combination.

As for gun fights, people don't like getting shot, doesn't matter what the caliber.

 

I give the .22lr...in a rifle...good marks as a survival weapon. A group of .22s is very effective at keeping an intruder down whilst I "una$$ the area", and small game is good to keep one moving...plus getting it without a lot of noise is a plus.

However, I have seen too many cases where folks shot with a .22 (even fatally) are able too accomplish entirely too much after being shot to want to use a .22 pistol in a close quarters defense situation.

 

The same could be said for everything from 9mm parabelium down. .357mag and up seem to bear up better. Bullet placement is the key regardless, and being able to cheaply practice, getting very familiar with a specific weapon is very very important to being able to do so 99% of the time. If you can't hit your target, You can't kill it.
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All in all I have accomplished exactly what I intended with this post. Many I am sure are at least considering the 22lr and not totally dismissing it.
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Y'all have a great day and long life

 

I have a lot of time in combat and I have been shot although not by a .22lr. But, getting shot is just that, you're been shot! In a post apocalyptic world where medical professionals are probably few and far between, getting shot with anything is probably life threatening. Take it from me, once you're actually shot, your mind focuses on that singular event quite well.

Getting shot a lot would be an even worse thing. Here's an M&P 15-22 with a slide fire stock, I just got to get me one of those things:

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+ 1 on the ..... Gotta get one of those !!!! Finally, something that shoots like full auto that I can afford to feed.
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Some interesting statistics that I stumbled across. The US government now believe there are 270,000,000 firearms in Civilian hands in the USA, but only 3 in 10 Americans are in possession of a firearm. I did a little rough math with no count on how many Citizens were Police or Military. (actually if I had those figures and subtracted that figure from the 300,000,000 Americans it would increase the number of firearms per civilian). Using 3 in 10 and 300,000,000 there are 90,000.000 firearm owners with an average of 3 firearms each. I guess, I have a few more than my quota.

 

Guess I will have to pass on the M&P 15-22 for awhile. I did find one in Jax Fl. on Gunbroker with a buy it now price of $415
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But then I would have to add $250 to $300 for a slidefire / bumpfire stock package ....... and then its out of my present price range.

 

22s are 22s and 45s are 45s. Have friends/relatives that have survived multiple hits with 22s. Another that took one round to the chest and died. Another that had a round in his brain for 30+ years-he was very dependent on others but alive and ambulatory. Have two 22s that are sighted in at 100 yds and can easily get a 4" group there. My Browning Buckmark is extremely accurate and I have killed squirrels/chickens with head shots. 22s have their place and handle it well. Put a round into a face at 100 yds and he will stop--guaranteed. Another point--22 LRs have been known to defeat vests.

 

The Hi-Standard HDM was adopted in WWII by the OSS, saw use in Vietnam and is still in the inventory today. Personally, I consider a 22rf doable but not my choice.

 

As long as you are willing to think and operate as an assassin the .22LR is very doable.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

 

And this gets us back full circle to where I started this post. #1 I would never advocate the 22lr as your go to primary MBR post SHTF. However, training is important, as is an adequate or even excess ammo stash. Every tribal / family group should own several quality 22 rifles and a few pistols. How much centerfire ammo at todays prices can you stockpile for $2000? Not all that much really! For $2000 you can obtain 50,000 rounds of 22lr ammo. Ammo is not in short supply right now, nor is it terribly expensive (yes it is higher than say 5 or 10 years ago, but, what isn't?). I would suggest that if you already have a couple of thousand rounds of each your primary centerfire ammo calibers, then that you obtain 50,000 to 100,000 22lr cartridges. With such an ammo stash, you will have ammo for several weapons when almost all others are out of ammo. JMHO
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Do whatever makes you happy and comfortable. You are all self thinking individuals or you probably wouldn't be here. It makes me happy and comfortable to think I just might be the last one in my area of operation to still have ammo in an extended extremely slow post SHTF recovery. jus sayin
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If the only weapon left with ammo is a lowly 22lr. .... that weapon is king.

 

Most likely if one hangs around long enough they will learn what superior firepower and suppressive fire mean. The 22 rf is a good small game pot filler. Although there are military applications and any projectile launcher is better than none, other applications are limited.

The good thing about a 22 RF is hopefully one would be wise enough to realize they must totally avoid any contact with the enemy. Larger units or groups will isolate, grind you down and terminate, so sniper, Special Ops and LRRP tactics apply here. Actually for a small group traveling or patrolling avoidance is the best tactic.

Contact is difficult to describe, but easy to demonstrate with a little help from some friends. Have 5-10 friends with AKs, ARs, etc shoot at the 100m berm and decide if one wishes to be hiding behind that berm returning fire. A tactic would be heavy suppressive fire while pivoting some of their forces to attack from the sides; bump heads, pivot to attack has been around since George Washington's time. The counter is beat feet.

 

I totally agree, but wonder if anyone bothers to read and comprehend what I just said in post 35.

 

People often get what they want out of any post. Unfortunately for many, avoiding contact same as the professionals do isn't on their radar. Which is why I used your post as the starting point to elaborate in mine to avoid contact and a DIY contact simulator for those who are from Missouri.
Unless someone has experienced a firefight, the average person is clueless what one is like. So, perhaps watching 5 to 10 clones throw 150 to 300 rounds to chew on a berm might prevent an educational experience.

 

It is apparent that reading comprehension is lacking for some, it was not hard to figure out for this high school graduate blue collared worker.