This one is for the Atheists here

I'm not quite sure where the insult came from. I guess you watched a few National Geographic documentaries in "Macedonian, Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian or Bulgarian" and some unnamed books and you both ended up with near similar quotes?

I find that highly unlikely. We can examine the content of both your quote and the post I listed:

From Bane:

​

From Cheesy Anti-Christian Agenda Site:

There is the off chance that you didn't paraphrase from there, I just doubt it. As I look down your list of items and look down the site's they appear to be very similar.

Maybe you are right, perhaps the site's author did watch some National Geographic documentaries in "Macedonian, Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian or Bulgarian" and read the same unnamed books to come to the same conclusion.



Don't take offense Bane. If you can call my reference into question (Bible), I can call yours.

 

Well, looks like the game is on then!

1. If Jesus was son of god, or god, why was he baptized? As son of god he already had to have the holy spirit in him, so why the baptism at all?
2. If John was his disciple and follower, why did John baptized Jesus and not the other way around, which was logical and seems proper? Why was John higher than Jesus?
3. If a religious man commits mass murder and goes to confession and repents, will he be forgiven and go to heaven? If a man steals an apple and never repents, does he go to hell?
4. If god created everything, why did he create evil, the devil, diseases and other nasty stuff in the world? If he is omnipotent and good and merciful, why does he create mass murderers, adulterers, thieves and other people that break his laws? Why doesn't he create all people good and perfect?
5. If there's constant battle between god and devil, why doesn't god make devil disappear?
6. If god is good, how come he kills 1400 people in the bible and devil only 15?
7. If god is good, why are babies dying from disease and hunger all over the world, while rich, fat bankers rule the world?
8. How does one know which god is real god? Allah, Jehovah, Buddha, Odin, Ra?
9. How do we know there's only one god and not dozen of them?
10. If god is almighty and omnipotent, can he make a rock so huge, that even he can't lift it?

These are my first questions...I have tons more, but let's see how you handle these easier questions for start...

Cheers!

 

Strictly biblical questions will follow...

 

Matt 14 through 16-<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comBut John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?"
But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him.
After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and <SUP></SUP>he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."]

There are several reasons that Jesus wanted to be baptized. The number one reason is to set an example for us.
He did not need the Holy Spirit, but He emptied himself and relied on the Holy Spirit as an example for us.
Philippians 2:7-
[but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.]
He was getting down to a sinners level so to speak.

As posted above, John wanted it the other way around. He even stated that. Again, Jesus was leveling himself to sinners for the future task of taking on all mankind’s sins.

Yes. Mark 1:15
[and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.]
To rationalize which sin is greater is to put a humanistic/worldly spin on God’s commands. There is no greater sin. All are equal. If you break God’s command, you break God’s command. The sin is against Him. God’s command is to repent.

I think the best explanation of evil is the one on Post #1 of this thread. Evil is the absence of God. God doesn’t create evil people. He creates people and they choose evil (ala absence of God). Without freewill what would be the point of Love?

Read response to #4.

First you have to understand the difference between murder and killing. The commandment from the Old Testament is “Thou shall not murder”.
Understand the definition of murder:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/murder
And to kill:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kill
Note that murder uses words like “premeditation” (which indicates gain) and kill uses words like “neutralize”. By definition the two are different. I bring this up because I think what you are getting at is that God breaks his own commandments which He clearly doesn’t by definition. He may neutralize someone on grounds that they broke His commandments. Unfortunately this tired argument comes from a misunderstanding of the Kings’ Old English. This argument is also void based on the fact that commandments apply to people. God is God.

Well, I guess the evil you speak of is again, lack of God. There are many Bible verses (too many to mention... unless you really want me to) that command us to take care of our orphans and widows. There are many more that say we should provide to the poor their needs. Most Christians, I know, do this today by contributing to various charities. If you want to do your part, there are various charity evaluation sites online that are good at getting to the bottom of where the money is going.

First, we have to establish we (humans) even think there is a God.
Ecclesiastes 3:11-
[He has made everything appropriate in its time He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man <SUP></SUP>will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.]
He has put it in your heart. Some choose to ignore it. Most pursue it. All I can say is this… pursue the Truth and you will find Him.

Simple answer- because he told us. Exodus 20-
[You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,]

Are you asking if God is stronger than himself? You have to have a something else to compare God to in order for this to be valid question/argument. Pseudo- questions need not apply. I will say this… God can create a rock so heavy that you can’t lift it J

 

Sooo...what you're saying is that all your answers will be from the bible and taken for granted or rationalized by simple "god said so" from the bible and "god is god" quazi-argument??? ROFL! Cool! So, let's see...

1. So, Jesus wanted to show the morons around him how to enter the river and take a bath? And by that he lowered himself on their level? And he couldn't show them how it's done on John? And he let him perform the very first and most important ritual in Christian religion??? Loool...OK

2. Even the bible contradicts itself! Different gospels from the bible say different things!
"All four Gospels record John the Baptist's ministry as does the Gospel of the Hebrews. They depict him as proclaiming Christ's arrival. In the Synoptic Gospels (Mark, Matthew, and Luke), Jesus is baptized. In Matthew and John, John the Baptist recognizes Jesus as the one he had foretold."
"All four canonical gospels relate John's preaching and baptism in the River Jordan. Most notably he is the one who recognizes Jesus as the Messiah and baptizes him. The baptism marks the beginning of Jesus' ministry."
So, John was already preaching when JC comes into play and John gives him his place! If John decided to kick him out, no one would even know about Jesus!

3. So, whatever one does is OK if he says a Hail Mary and Forgive me Father??? One can kill, rape, steal and do anything he wants and it's perfectly fine as long as he "repents"? And he can do the same crimes every day, all day, repent in the evening, and start killing again next morning? And when he dies he goes to heaven, and a poor hungry guy who steals an apple goes to hell??? Are you serious??? ROFLMAO! Lovely! I can feel the love of god around me now!

4. The Christianity teaches that god is everywhere! So, how can there be absence of god anywhere??? If god doesn't create bad people, or sinners, and if he gives them free will, why does he send them to hell if they do something with their free will that he doesn't like??? How is that free will then? Sooo...they are free to obey his laws and free to love him unconditionally, but if they try to do something wrong by the bible they go to hell? What is free there??? This is lame even as a bad excuse!!! LOL!

5. Read number 4??? Free will? What? He's like testing people to see who's going to fall into his trap? Why??? Is it because god is sadistic prick that likes to torture people? First he lies to them that they have freedom of choice, than he puts up devil to try to seduce them while god watches the show, and then if they do something wrong, he throws them into hell???? And all this is explained by "god is god" and "ways of the lord are misterious"??? Did god burn ants with magnifying glass when he was a tiny god also? And people can actually respect or "love" a monster like that? LOL! Great! Do you realise that if 3,4 and 5 are correct by bible that absolutely NO human being would ever go to heaven? If you go to hell for stealing an apple or a peanut even, only god and his son will be up there!!! ROFLMAO!!! And all this makes sense to you???...Or is the reasoning how mysterious are the ways of the lord?...

6. Whether you murder or kill a person, he's still dead! Not alive, tot, kaput!
kill

to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.






mur·der[mur-der]
–noun 1. Law . the killing of another human being

And they are different? Are you serious??? OK...so, does god kill or murder people? Is he only depriving them of life and "neutralizing" them, or does he have something to gain from their deaths? And since he's god, why does he have to murder all those people? He can just snap his fingers and make them good and nice! But no! He likes to kill them as an example to others while justifying it how? Free will bs? Scare tactics? Be careful what you do with your "free" will? Was god tutoring world media? If I kill you with nothing to gain, is it any different if I murder you to steal your money? Will you be less dead? And if I promise to repent later, is it OK then? Murder and killing are both the same thing, whether you manipulate the semantics or not!


7. And again...If god is everywhere present for all eternity, how can there be a lack of god anywhere, at any time?! Did he take a vacation to nowhere land? Were Tinkerbell and Peter Pan there too?
The bible says that people should care for women and children, and people die by thousands every day, while Pope and his bishops own banks, live in extreme luxury, covered in gold and silk, and they are the cream of Christianity??? Gods champions? His favourite pals and buddies? God's link with us, dirty humans? Really? The Catholic church can spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year to prevent child rape cases by priests to go to courts, or to get in public, but they can't give a dollar for poor and hungry all over the world??? The believers who work from morning till night should feed the poor and hungry, but god and church will only observe and laugh their arses off?!?! Because the bible says so??? Great! Can you tell me where in the bible are the verses that mention the church, pope, Vatican or buildings full of gold, marble and untold riches? Can you show me where bible orders existence of Pope and wealth and property belonging to the church? I'll be waiting...

8. OK...maybe it's my lack of knowledge of English language, but I just don't understand what you wrote...I understand this as "you just keep your blind faith on, and trust me blindly, and I will tell you and show you what you need to know in time".... What time!?!?! It's been over 2000 years and god didn't make a peep! "He has set eternity in their hart"...WTF??? What does that mean?..."yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end"...???...Sooo, you miserable lot called humans will find out the truth when armageddon comes and when Earth is destroyed??? And untill that beautifull and glorious day, you just keep the blind faith, keep suffering and be quiet??!!! ROFL!

9. He told us? Really? When and where? I must have missed that memo! lol..."You shall have no other gods before Me" ...OK...and how about after you?...

"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."...ROFLMAO!! Sooooo...ALL religious people along with the priests and the church, are surely going to hell! They all wiggle their rosaries, wear their crosses symbols, worship statues of nailed Jesus, go to churches plastered with icons and frescas, with pictures of saints and what-not in the windows, and they ALL have sins!
​

"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God"...??? He's a jealous god??? Jealous of who??? If he was the one and only god, why would he be ordering people not to worship "them" or serve "them"! Remember the "free will"? ... And just who are "them", and why is he jealous of "them"??? He says that he's Lord your God, meaning "your arse is mine", and "they"can't have you!
And wasn't jealousy a sin? Oh, right...it doesn't apply to him...he's "god"...And he's acting like spoiled child, fighting with neighbourhood kids about a toy! The squabble of gods!... lol!
And everyone must believe that god ever said anything why exactly? Because some scribbler wrote that on a piece of pergament some time ago? Blind faith and voluntary ignorance in play again? And since all those scribbles were written a century after Jesus, the scribblers had reliable sources which were who exactly? The ghosts of the apostols? And since the first thing resembling a bible appeared over 300 years after Jesus, that ofcourse means that they had plenty of first hand eye witnesses and reliable sources, right? ROFL! Blind faith and anything is not only possible, but probable even!

10. LOL...Talking about pseudo..Why do priests and bible refer to believers as their "flock" and "sheep"? And Jesus was "lamb"? Looks like god and church have made up their minds about human intelligence...And so it goes...First he gets angry at Adam and Eve because they ate the apple of knowledge...Was his plan to keep people stupid and ignorant forever?? The planet of morons? And why was he angry? I mean, he's all-seeing and all-knowing god, so he knew that they would eat the apple! Was he acting angry or was he really surprised?...
Next, he gives "free will" to people, then he keeps threatening them all through the bible, then he lets his own son die for the people he utterly despises and tortures all through the history, then he kills people left and right, over 1400 in various slaughters because the people excercised their free will, and he also kills all innocent people along with the sinners, just because he doesn't give a frack! He orders people regardless of their "free will" not to worship and serve other kids because they belong to him, then he tells them to shut up, suffer and be quiet and he'll tell them what is going on when they die, then he throws them in hell for smallest possible reasons while liberating the worst monsters because they pray to him and show him how they love him, then he orders believers to prove their love for him by killing their children, then he destroys entire human kind and all life on Earth except Noah's family and few animals, then he allows suffering of innocents all over the world while letting the worst people rule...And he is god of love, truth and mercy, and if you are good little sheep, and obey and worship him and Jesus, when you die you will go to heaven and live with him and his son for eternity in bliss and luxury!!!...ROFLMAO!!!!!

But, all the logic and reason aside, since the unidentified compilation of texts written by propagandists, called bible, says I'm wrong, I must be wrong!....
Wait! I feel the holy spirit coming!...Now I see the error of my ways! I was seduced by the dark side! I see the light now!...no, wait...it was just a truck passing by...Please help me Obi-Wan...errrrr...god! If I promise to be a good and obediant little sheep, will you let me take a peek into heaven?
...Yes, true, the devil has all the booze, pot, chicks, guns, junk food, movies, gambling, hunting, fishing, sexx, rock'n'roll and other premium decadent stuff, but I'd loooove to sit next to you and your son and play harp and sing kumbaya for ever and ever in eternity!...NOT!!!!
Anyone seen the devil around? I have a little business proposition for him!...

Cheers!

 

I think my reference counts since you never post any reference for your information.

I'm not sure where you got the "bath" part. I think you are just being completely absurd and downright disrespectful now. It really doesn't lend any credence to what you are trying to do. After all, you claim to be respectful to everyone's religious beliefs.You are over simplifying what the old testament predicted, what Jesus was saying would happen, and what actually did happen according to the New Testament. He wasn't trying to show us how to baptize- John had been doing that for awhile as had the Jews. What He was showing us was a model for how to become Christian. Your old self dies and you are born again with a clean slate.

I'm not sure in this quote where you claim the Bible contradicts itself. Again, if you would place references instead of hear-say and CTRL-C info from anti-Christian sites. Yes, John was a prophet that understood that Christ was coming very soon. He instantly identifies Jesus without Jesus introducing Himself. It is actually quite remarkable. No less than 15 times in the Old Testament (that I can remember) the savior is predicted. The Jews were weary by that time of always hearing it. John pops up and starts preaching that He is coming and He comes. John instantly recognizes Him.

Not at all. That is not what the Bible preaches at all. What you are regurgitating doesn't have anything to do with me and what I believe. You are repeating a common myth about Catholic beliefs. I say myth because there is a lifestyle change that is expected with becoming a Christian. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that you can do what you want and ask forgiveness and repeat the process. If you can reference this, I'm all ears. Of course all you can do is regurgitate falsities as if they are fact.

God is everywhere. When people don't accept Him, their heart becomes evil. You still have the freewill to accept Him or not. Wherever you are, He is there for you. I don't understand what is tough about breaking commandments. Is He supposed to reward you with Heaven if you disobey? How does that make sense? What we are free to do is make a choice- Him for eternity or the world now. Everyone has a choice. This applies to every aspect of life. Of course, there may be repercussions for my choices. This is another one my 6 year old understands quite well. Come on Bane....

I've already established everyone is free to do what they want. He didn't put the devil here to "seduce" us. What you are overlooking is the Love of God. God intends for you to love Him and each other (remember the big 2?). That is all He ever meant for the world. What happens is people are arrogant and turn from Him. The result is that we don't love each other and we don't honor Him. It's really hard to argue that God is a "sadistic prick" as you so thoughtfully described Him when if we would follow His commandments, the world would be much better. Think about your own country Bane.... if you guys loved your neighbor.... how different could it be?? It's called hope.... as in faith, hope, and love. Give it a try and stop being so hateful.

Yes, I am very serious. To kill is to neutralize. To murder is a premeditated act. That is why we have murder statutes and no "killing" statutes in law. There is a huge difference. Take it from a guy that knows a bit about killing. When you murder someone, it's the absolute hate. You are taking everything that he is ever going to be. You can take away his eternity if he isn't right. Killing is different. A police officer kills in self defense- the choice wasn't his. A soldier may kill in combat- the choice isn't his. Everyone who murders without motive/reason has one.... they generally like it. It gets their rocks off. Better defined as a sociopath. No one trully murders without reason. It's just at times, more reasonable people can't see or understand the reason.

Again, I can't comment on the Catholic church... I'm not Catholic. God is everywhere. The only place that He can really be denied is in our hearts. If you take every example you stated above, I'll be willing to bet that the cause is that someone has denied Him (ie didn't love thy neighbor as thyself). As I stated earlier, evil exists because if us. God didn't create evil. We are given a choice and the wrong choice brings evil in the world and consequences in eternity.

What that means is this... the reason why people seek God or something to worship is that in their hearts, they know that there is more than this life. That's why I hear people say they believe in a "higher being", but can't out any reason as to why they believe that. God put that there. It's part of our being. Deep down, that's the reason why your prowl here Bane. You think you are a "free thinker" and above this religion stuff for the mindless droves. Yet, you still come here and throw jabs. What would be the point if there was no God. Someone else already stated it and I believe to be true. You are looking for something Bane. I pray you find it.

Of course they all have sins. This is the part that atheists don't seem to get. I don't understand why. We are all sinners. No real Christian ever claimed to be perfect. Perfect is something we strive for, but we are in a broken world that lead us astray at times.

Maybe you should read the definition of idol:
Idol | Define Idol at Dictionary.com
"an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed."
Are Christians worshiping a wooden cross? No, they are worshiping God.
As I said before, the Bible is a good reference considering you provide no references for anything you have typed to this point. I'd say it's at least as factual as the historical accounts that you have brought up. It's not "blind faith" because I believe what was long written down. You also believe in what was long written down. I guess your "blind faith" in those books on Constantine (or mulit-lingual, unquotable, unreferenced documentaries) isn't in question?

What you use as a punching bag I would call a good description. We are lost without Him. We only show it everyday. Turn on the news. We are sheep.

We had freewill from the beginning. That's how Eve was able to eat the fruit...duh. What came from the eating of the fruit was separation from God. God walked with man in the garden. Then man's disobedience came into play. The world was perfect. We only had one commandment. We ruined it with disobedience. Now we live in a broken world that is bent for destruction.

"He so Loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son." You still can't comprehend the Love of God. It's because from a worldly perspective, it's incomprehensible. From a Christian perspective it's tough and I can't comprehend all of it. I have seen enough of His Love to know it's true.

I am still looking for references- no where in the Bible did God make anyone kill their children. If you are referring to Abraham, He was testing Abraham.... you may note that He didn't kill his son at the end of the test. At least understand what you trying to (but not successfully) referencing.

I still don't understand this "liberating monsters" stuff you keep spouting off. When you are reborn, there has to be a change in heart. You can't continue to willingly sin... that's not a change in heart. That's why I say Christianity is a relationship.... not a religion. Only you and God truly know what's in your heart.

Now you are just being disrespectful. For an "open minded", "free thinking","tolerant", "advanced", "progressive" do you really have to resort to name calling? I figured you for more of a big boy Bane....

Even if it's not your beliefs, disrespect isn't warranted. I haven't busted on atheists.

God bless you Bane. I hope you find what it is that you are searching for.

 

Do not think that I'm insulting or ridiculing you personaly! I'm ridiculing all religions in general! I simply can't understand how can people ignore logic, reason and physical evidence and put trust and faith in writings of plethora of scribblers who wrote hear-say a century after the alleged event occured! And the argument is always "because the bible tells us so....or because god (via bible) tells us so"! They ignore and neglect all illogical, controversial and irrational things in the bible, but they refuse all material, physical, logical and scientific evidence if it goes against the scribblings in their "holy books".
And what if some day E.T lands on WH lawn and aliens are proven to exist? Will church say that devil made them, or that they don't exist, since god and bible never said that god made aliens too? In his image???

As for my "name calling"...did I call you any names??? Where? When?
Disrespectful? Towards who? You? How? Where?
All the time I'm reffering to the bible and god concept, not you personally!
If you expect me to respect the bible or the religions, that's not going to happen.
If you are insinuating that I do not respect religious people, you are dead wrong there!
If you want to say that if I don't respect bible and religion, then I don't respect you or other religious people, I'll say that you are absolutely wrong!
You see, I respect people, not books or concepts that make no sense to me. TO ME!
These are MY opinions, and MINE alone! If you and I were friends living in same city, going out together, having BBQ's or something, I couldn't care less what is your religion, do you have a shrine at home, or if you go to church every day of the week!
All that would matter to me would be if you respect me as a person and if you are a good, honest, decent person! If you wanted, you could bash atheism 24/7 for what I care! Heck, I'd even help you and make jokes on account of atheists!
People should bind to people, not religions and some fictious concepts of supernatural god, who constantly keeps people in fear!

You want to bash atheism? Plese do! I absolutely don't mind, or care! I'll even help you!

Cheers!

 

If you have physical evidence to the contrary of my beliefs, I would like to see it. As of logic and reason, I've seen people use logic and reason to justify a lot of things that didn't make sense to me.....

The writings weren't a century after they occurred.... all the disciples were dead by then. The earliest ones we can find may be a century later.... they were written and copied long before then. This is true with 90% of our "accepted" ancient history texts. Thus, the problem with dating items. Know how old paper is, tells you nothing of the age of it's content. That's what makes dating and aging a text and its content so subjective.

BTW, out of curiosity, I caught the National Geographic on the book of Judas. I kept an open mind while watching and it all seemed plausible. Then, they went and revealed the content. Then it became apparent why it was thrown out as a fake. It didn't correspond with any other text by any other disciple. So, that would mean that everyone else had it wrong and Judas had it right or more likely, the book was written by someone for some alternative reason who was in no way a disciple. Someone with secondhand knowledge.... not firsthand. There were hundreds of such documents in the early days. Thus the reason for comparing the known original accounts with the others and deciding on what we know as the Bible (technically a little before the Council of Trent in the mid 1500s). You see, it's compilation and when it was written is two different things.

Back to "evidence", "reason", etc..... You say you believe in mother nature. Are you a Darwinist as well? Do you believe in any higher being?

I believe that Creationism is more plausible than a spontaneous big bang that somehow begin the smallest of cells to fish to frogs to apes to you and me. Looking at the "theory" (since science can't prove their theory anymore than I can prove Creation- other than the inherent perfectness that everything works in nature) objectively, we are so improbable that I find it odd you brought up aliens?? If we are as improbable as scientists believe, what are the chances of extraterrestrial life? And the us meeting them? What would it mean if aliens did land tomorrow? I have no idea. I'm not even sure how we got here. The Bible doesn't mention aliens, of course, it doesn't mention me either, but I exist. No mention doesn't mean impossible. It wouldn't change my beliefs one bit. In fact, thanks to science pointing out how special we are and how improbable all this Earth thing is... it would reinforce my belief in God (if that's possible). I would be interested in what they have to say.

As for the respect thing, if someone believes something, it is disrespectful to make light something that is heavy to them. A person's beliefs are a part of them. If you don't disrespect a belief, whether it makes sense to you or not, you disrespect that person whom that belief is a part of. I don't mind discussing my beliefs with others and I will try and answer any questions you have to clarify your understanding of what it means to be a Christian. There are a lot of misinterpretations out there and it is in vogue right now to bash Christians. And so the cycle continues with repetition of untruth. The Catholic questions are a good example of that. I believed a lot of what you repeated in this thread about Catholics... until I got to know one or two. What I never could understand is why Catholics put someone between themselves in Jesus (it's clearly supposed to be a personal relationship according to the Bible). With the help of a European History scholar, I came to understand how literacy fit in. The more I read into the New Testament, the more learned that God works through leadership to reach people. God is capable of using anyone for His work. Even people without truest hearts. How did the Jews get the 2nd temple built? Through an unholy Persian leader that didn't hold a single Jewish belief. That denies logic.... but it's recorded in more than just the Bible.

 

LOL...All the posts here show just how futile all discussions about religion are...You will stay religious, I will stay atheist...to each his own.

Cheers!

 

I tend to agree. If it wasn't this, we could go back to vaccinations..... never mind, there is some other discussion going on right now regarding terrorism where we can disagree.

Seriously Bane, we disagree on about everything. I enjoy the discussion, though. Maybe one day we can share a brew and reflect on the more important parts of life (as in not politics or religion)?



ETA: I won't stay "religious"....... I am a Christian- like previously mentioned it's a personal relationship.

 

LOL...I'd like that! And sorry for the religious thing...

 

Wow.....after reading this thread, now I see why the other forum I am on limits the religion forum to paid members.
All I can say to hardcore athiests is; you better hope you're right. But I don't think you are.

 

When both parties are dead-set in their ways, it's no longer a discussion - it devolves into..... this.

 

You are quite welcome...and I thank you for giving me credit for a wisdom I only try to obtain.

I don't seek "salvation"...and certainly not from two pieces of wood joined together. I seek only to be good and fair with my fellow man and there find peace of mind.

I have no problem with one finding their peace in religion..any more than I have a problem with them finding it with heroin...it is their own mind or body they choose to waste.